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Originally posted by gigi@Dec 17 2004, 04:42 PM I chose 80-100% because I like to have SOME level of trust that there are still honest people in the biz.
don't be naive. LOL
;-)))
If someone came out with an affiliate program that said "We shave less than anyone else"...
Originally posted by JoesHO1@Dec 17 2004, 04:52 PM I vote 100%
what I do not understand, is why?
I mean how come the sponsors don't just lower their payouts to a reasonable split, and count every hit? would this not solve a bunch of fraud problems on everyones part?
i
Because no webmaster on GFY wuill ever send you traffic if you say:
I'm paying 7.82 per free trial join!!!
But they will if you shave the fuck out of them and say you'll pay $200 joins every second tuesday after lent.
Well im not going to vote on this purely because everyones perception of what 'shaving' is is different from one another.
To me, the most blatent form of 'acceptable' shaving are cross sells from exit consoles that affiliates dont get credit for, the programs use affiliates traffic to generate income without paying the affiliate a portion of those funds, to me, that is no different than if a sponsor 'shaved' sales directly from their program.
On the same note, upsells in a members area to some are also considered as shaving, again, the affiliate program benefits from the affiiates traffic and, although the affiliate has been rewarded for sending the member to the site, there is still some uncertainty as to whether or not an affiliate should be given credits for members areas upsells or not.
Then as already mentioned there is is the, affiliate sends in 10k hits to a sponsors tour page, 8k of those hits 'disappear' when they click through to the 2nd tour page or how the sponsors only count unique hits and not raw, if i send a potential member to a paysite tour who has decided they want to join a site they previously didnt want to.. i dont get credited for the sale because they arent a 'unique' visitor.
Basically, on some levels, shaving is an acceptable business practise by many in the industry however, there are methods of transparent shaving that many simply dont look at thus the reason why i not voting in the poll.. until you would like to clarify your definition of shaving in this meaning of the word
I am of course, just being an asshole for the sake of it after having a really shitty day and finding out there were no copies of collateral left in Blockbusters LOL
I mean how come the sponsors don't just lower their payouts to a reasonable split, and count every hit? would this not solve a bunch of fraud problems on everyones part?
Originally posted by JoesHO1@Dec 17 2004, 04:52 PM I mean how come the sponsors don't just lower their payouts to a reasonable split, and count every hit? would this not solve a bunch of fraud problems on everyones part?
He who controls the traffic, controls the revenue.
The higher the payout and the more tours an affiliate program has, the more traffic affiliates will send them.
The more traffic affiliates send them, the more money they can make through transparent shaving, the more money they make through transparent shaving, the more marketing they can do to their affiliates.. higher payouts, more tours, more niches, etc etc and so the cycle begins anew.
Its a traffic figures game.. nothing more, nothing less
Thats one of the reasons when we launch our new program early next year, we're going to have 50 sites with multiple tours and payout up to $44 per sale
Originally posted by Lee@Dec 17 2004, 07:45 PM To me, the most blatent form of 'acceptable' shaving are cross sells from exit consoles that affiliates dont get credit for, the programs use affiliates traffic to generate income without paying the affiliate a portion of those funds, to me, that is no different than if a sponsor 'shaved' sales directly from their program.
That depends, these signups may be calculated into the per signup payout and allow the sponsor to offer a higher payout.
I chose 80 to 100% because I have NEVER shaved myself but know that everyone else does ;-))
Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Dec 17 2004, 07:31 PM The real fun used to be "reverse shaving" some people
ie adding in a few signups , so the guy would be all over the boards
" Holy crap man , I'm converting at 1 in 17 with blah blah blah"
;-)))
That would be a particularly dirty trick.
Why, I would be extremely offended if someone were to contact me via email or on ICQ (both available through the board, in case you forgot) in search of a reasonably articulate person looking for someone to sing their praises on such a basis for reasonable (as determined by me) compensation.
Really.
I would.
Honest. Especially if the offer wasn't reasonable (as determined by me).
__________________ SEX STORY TEXT Exotic Material for Adult Websites Available for part time (project or ongoing) work ...
Almost all shave, I can only hope that NATS programs can't, but who knows. Other than that...no reason not to shave. You shave a percentage...so, no matter how well or how poor the persons traffic converts, you shave a percentage and they will never know. If your traffic is great and converts 1:200, and the sponsor says 1:350....who are you to say that it's bullshit.
No sponsor these days is living for 10 years....they are going for profits from the next 6 months, and HOPEFULY more....
Aside from the fact our affilate software has zero functions to shave it is something i would never do, i would rather shut netpondcash down than resort to shaving.
We have some very unique sites that do not need shaves on, they convert very well and retain very well.
forgot to add we also take credit cards from pretty much every country except north korea and a higher than normal chargeback threshold that gives us some leeway
Contact vxbill, tell them you want to run there affilate script and tell them you want to be able to apply a shave
watch how fast they tell you to fuck off
Tell them you will run millions of dollars of biz thru there billing each week but you want to apply a shave
watch how fast they tell you to stick your millions up your ass.
I have nothing to prove, we dont do biz like that anyone that wants to try our program out and see for themselves be my guest, anyone that thinks im bullshitting then dont try the proggy lol, any one that knows me knows i would never be involved in shaving.
lol the first thing we asked when we were looking at his program was does it shave, when he said no it doesnt then we took the script, if he had said yes it does to us we would have gone elsewhere.
If you are saying that Leenart condones shaving then I will take it up with him on monday cos either you are bullshitting or he bullshitted to us.
No offence intended mate but you of all people should know whether an affiliate script has a built in shave feature or not, it is still possible to shave.
All thse guys marketing their script without a shave feature in them are doing so purely from a marketing standpoint.
If i wanted to and i used NATS and were suffieiciently motivated to do so, im pretty sure i could figure out a way of shaving affiliates, if i could figure a way out, im sure these programs with inhouse programmers and the likes could.
Nothing against NPC in any way, never used your guys program but i do like your gloryhole site
Lennart will not allow a shave - he is a good guy :-), BUT that doesn´t mean that shaving is impossible. The same with NATS - sure its good etc. but trusting it blindly is just fooling yourself. Know your stats, and use that to compare sponsors... Sponsors stats is a useful tool, but when comparing sponsor vs. sponsor use your OWN stats.
__________________ "Chaos is the law of nature, order is the dream of man."
~Henry B. Adams (Historian) 1838-1918
Its kinda funny comparing programs today... traffic leaks, un-trackable billing options, pop installs etc. on the increase at some sponsors, while others are going the opposite direction - and then we have the sponsors that have both in their program, where you choose what version of the tour you want to send too - ex. $40/PPS with consoles, $25/PPS without consoles... $15 difference is big, and makes you go hmmm
__________________ "Chaos is the law of nature, order is the dream of man."
~Henry B. Adams (Historian) 1838-1918
When they howl you say "OMFG!! thats ridiculous, let me credit you X and look into it"
You then turn the shave down 10-20%....then you slowly turn it up agaim...rinse and repeat...
There are I believe instances of people being shaved 90% and STILL thanking the program owner cause his CHECK was bigger there than at the last place!!
Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Dec 18 2004, 10:10 AM But they will if you shave the fuck out of them and say you'll pay $200 joins every second tuesday after lent.
Nick,
IMHO you have just nailed the biggest point.
Greedy little fucks who don't their asshole from breakfast.
To me shaving is simple, if you send me 10000 hits and 20 joins but your stats INTENTIONALLY only say you send me 8000k hits and 16 joins, THAT is shaving.
Fuck I've seen an off-the-shelf affiliate solution that has 9 seperate shaving mechanisms. I know of a purpose written one that has more.
We personally don't shave, and I'll put down $10k and even pay for the audit if they show WE do, but we use 3rd party processors, and who the fuck knows what some of them do, so the point is probably moot.
Shit we even give affiliates ALL the email addresses they gather under their revcode - members AND mail grabbers.
Originally posted by Lee@Dec 19 2004, 02:35 AM I forget who it was.. Audited Sponsor perhaps? That used to track affiliate programs traffic and signups?
They closed down after around a month or two if memory serves me correctly.
Bought out and then shut down a little birdie tells me....
Originally posted by CuriousToyBoy@Dec 18 2004, 11:32 AM To me shaving is simple, if you send me 10000 hits and 20 joins but your stats INTENTIONALLY only say you send me 8000k hits and 16 joins, THAT is shaving.
Unforgivable.... bad.... very bad..... mmmkay? ;-))
Psss ....
How many time do I have to tell you ALL PROGRAMS SHAVE!!
CBT - Not picking on you but will use you as an example
You use CCBill to process, you have an unintentional shave
CCBill uses a cookie based tracking system, approximately 10% (or less) of surfers have their cookies turned off
There's your unintentional shave
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