Yup , This old chestnut again...

You know that...

I know that...

I just wanted an to see if people believe it or not.

don't be naive. LOL

;-)))


If someone came out with an affiliate program that said "We shave less than anyone else"...

They'd clean up...

Excellent question...

intentionally?

You mean not bothering with enough detail to track every single hit ?

;-)))

A bit of both i guess lol [/b][/quote]
Exactly!!! ;-)))

How many ways can I shave you ..let me count the ways... ;-))

Because no webmaster on GFY wuill ever send you traffic if you say:

I'm paying 7.82 per free trial join!!!

But they will if you shave the fuck out of them and say you'll pay $200 joins every second tuesday after lent.

He who controls the traffic, controls the revenue.

The higher the payout and the more tours an affiliate program has, the more traffic affiliates will send them.

The more traffic affiliates send them, the more money they can make through transparent shaving, the more money they make through transparent shaving, the more marketing they can do to their affiliates.. higher payouts, more tours, more niches, etc etc and so the cycle begins anew.

Its a traffic figures game.. nothing more, nothing less :)

Thats one of the reasons when we launch our new program early next year, we're going to have 50 sites with multiple tours and payout up to $44 per sale ;) [/b][/quote]


Its about the check at the end of the week.

Don't look at your stats , look at the check.

LOL...hence why I edited my post...but you caught me!!

LOL

The real fun used to be "reverse shaving" some people

ie adding in a few signups , so the guy would be all over the boards

" Holy crap man , I'm converting at 1 in 17 with blah blah blah"


;-)))

all?

I chose 80-100% because I like to have SOME level of trust that there are still honest people in the biz. ;)

intentionally? :unsure:

Well im not going to vote on this purely because everyones perception of what 'shaving' is is different from one another.

To me, the most blatent form of 'acceptable' shaving are cross sells from exit consoles that affiliates dont get credit for, the programs use affiliates traffic to generate income without paying the affiliate a portion of those funds, to me, that is no different than if a sponsor 'shaved' sales directly from their program.

On the same note, upsells in a members area to some are also considered as shaving, again, the affiliate program benefits from the affiiates traffic and, although the affiliate has been rewarded for sending the member to the site, there is still some uncertainty as to whether or not an affiliate should be given credits for members areas upsells or not.

Then as already mentioned there is is the, affiliate sends in 10k hits to a sponsors tour page, 8k of those hits 'disappear' when they click through to the 2nd tour page or how the sponsors only count unique hits and not raw, if i send a potential member to a paysite tour who has decided they want to join a site they previously didnt want to.. i dont get credited for the sale because they arent a 'unique' visitor.

Basically, on some levels, shaving is an acceptable business practise by many in the industry however, there are methods of transparent shaving that many simply dont look at thus the reason why i not voting in the poll.. until you would like to clarify your definition of shaving in this meaning of the word ;)

I am of course, just being an asshole for the sake of it after having a really shitty day and finding out there were no copies of collateral left in Blockbusters LOL

do contract killers do it intentionally or just because they like to kill?
;-)))

do contract killers do it intentionally or just because they like to kill?
;-))) [/b][/quote]
A bit of both i guess lol

I vote 100%
what I do not understand, is why?

I mean how come the sponsors don't just lower their payouts to a reasonable split, and count every hit? would this not solve a bunch of fraud problems on everyones part?

i

Last sponsors I acused of shaving sent this person to my house with a message

http://www.harleyrendezvous.com/2003-pics/beard.jpg

"We do no shaving! But he will shave your testicles..." :ph34r:

He who controls the traffic, controls the revenue.

The higher the payout and the more tours an affiliate program has, the more traffic affiliates will send them.

The more traffic affiliates send them, the more money they can make through transparent shaving, the more money they make through transparent shaving, the more marketing they can do to their affiliates.. higher payouts, more tours, more niches, etc etc and so the cycle begins anew.

Its a traffic figures game.. nothing more, nothing less :)

Thats one of the reasons when we launch our new program early next year, we're going to have 50 sites with multiple tours and payout up to $44 per sale ;)

Wrong ...

Its about the check at the end of the week.

Don't look at your stats , look at the check. [/b][/quote]
You just said the same thing i did in your last post.. i just said it in a much longer way LOL

Make your mind up dammit LOL

Fucking noobs ;) :P

That depends, these signups may be calculated into the per signup payout and allow the sponsor to offer a higher payout.

I chose 80 to 100% because I have NEVER shaved myself but know that everyone else does ;-))

I shave twice a day.....

But base my trust in sponsors on return per click.....

I cant control who shaves but can control who returns most per click.


Know how many clicks u send is my bottom line.....its amazing how many people dont have a clue how many hits they send and rely on sponsor stats.

So ... what's the shave on this poll's results? :matey:

That would be a particularly dirty trick.

Why, I would be extremely offended if someone were to contact me via email or on ICQ (both available through the board, in case you forgot) in search of a reasonably articulate person looking for someone to sing their praises on such a basis for reasonable (as determined by me) compensation.

Really.

I would.

Honest. Especially if the offer wasn't reasonable (as determined by me).

PD, I am confident most if not all proggies will keep your conversions artificially low ;-)

Almost all shave, I can only hope that NATS programs can't, but who knows. Other than that...no reason not to shave. You shave a percentage...so, no matter how well or how poor the persons traffic converts, you shave a percentage and they will never know. If your traffic is great and converts 1:200, and the sponsor says 1:350....who are you to say that it's bullshit.

No sponsor these days is living for 10 years....they are going for profits from the next 6 months, and HOPEFULY more....


But you'll see that change within a year.

well

http://www.netpondcash.com/ dosent shave, never has and never wil.

Aside from the fact our affilate software has zero functions to shave it is something i would never do, i would rather shut netpondcash down than resort to shaving.

We have some very unique sites that do not need shaves on, they convert very well and retain very well.

forgot to add we also take credit cards from pretty much every country except north korea and a higher than normal chargeback threshold that gives us some leeway:)

Prove it! ;-)

lol Timon

Contact vxbill, tell them you want to run there affilate script and tell them you want to be able to apply a shave

watch how fast they tell you to fuck off

Tell them you will run millions of dollars of biz thru there billing each week but you want to apply a shave

watch how fast they tell you to stick your millions up your ass.

I have nothing to prove, we dont do biz like that anyone that wants to try our program out and see for themselves be my guest, anyone that thinks im bullshitting then dont try the proggy lol, any one that knows me knows i would never be involved in shaving.

Lennart didn't mind when I asked ;-)

lol the first thing we asked when we were looking at his program was does it shave, when he said no it doesnt then we took the script, if he had said yes it does to us we would have gone elsewhere.

If you are saying that Leenart condones shaving then I will take it up with him on monday cos either you are bullshitting or he bullshitted to us.

Meat,

No offence intended mate but you of all people should know whether an affiliate script has a built in shave feature or not, it is still possible to shave.

All thse guys marketing their script without a shave feature in them are doing so purely from a marketing standpoint.

If i wanted to and i used NATS and were suffieiciently motivated to do so, im pretty sure i could figure out a way of shaving affiliates, if i could figure a way out, im sure these programs with inhouse programmers and the likes could.

Nothing against NPC in any way, never used your guys program but i do like your gloryhole site :)

Moi, bullshit? Nevah!!! ;-)))

And Meat , well...come on!!!! LOL ;-))))

There is naive and then there is being just plain dumb!!!

If traffic is being recieved , it can be shaved.

If it sends traffic it can be "spammed."

These are "Nicks First Laws of Traffic"

;-)))

Lennart will not allow a shave - he is a good guy :-), BUT that doesn´t mean that shaving is impossible. The same with NATS - sure its good etc. but trusting it blindly is just fooling yourself. Know your stats, and use that to compare sponsors... Sponsors stats is a useful tool, but when comparing sponsor vs. sponsor use your OWN stats.

Its kinda funny comparing programs today... traffic leaks, un-trackable billing options, pop installs etc. on the increase at some sponsors, while others are going the opposite direction - and then we have the sponsors that have both in their program, where you choose what version of the tour you want to send too - ex. $40/PPS with consoles, $25/PPS without consoles... $15 difference is big, and makes you go hmmm :awinky:

Agreed, they run a clean operation.

On the contrary, shaving processor hosted sponsorship programs like this one and iBill revshare for example is EXTREMELY easy!

Does anyone know how it's done? :-)

Agreed, they run a clean operation.

On the contrary, shaving processor hosted sponsorship programs like this one and iBill revshare for example is EXTREMELY easy!

Does anyone know how it's done? :-) [/b][/quote]
Using .php includes on the tour pages to only display the tracking code at certain times of the day ;)

Now what do i win? :groucho:

Bingo, iBill or VXS may not short your stats but the program owner can easily show a join page that is not linked to your account some of the time ;-)

ahhhh "Insta shave"

I have seen "the insides" of at least 4 major ones ALL with shave adjust feature.

Frankly I was shocked!! Horrified!!!

Nearly bought one. ;-)))

Til someone said "Mate ,look at this..this is the shit!" ;-)))

Funny you should say that....

Years ago , as a purely hypothetical mind puzzle , a group of us sat round and did the "What if we were a third party processor , how could we shave"

OK we were wasted...but it would be easy...you'd never get caught either.Even , if done right an audit wouldn't catch you. Look just like a...

Nevermind ;-)))

Cause the ULTIMATE shave would be at that level.

do contract killers do it intentionally or just because they like to kill?
;-))) [/b][/quote]
Serge, liking it has got nothing to do with it.

They do it because they can, they don;t have to like it.

:ph34r:

and CTB...

10,000 shaved to 8,000 is just unambitious!! ;-))

Shaving 101

You turn up the shave everyday a lil bit.

When they howl you say "OMFG!! thats ridiculous, let me credit you X and look into it"

You then turn the shave down 10-20%....then you slowly turn it up agaim...rinse and repeat...

There are I believe instances of people being shaved 90% and STILL thanking the program owner cause his CHECK was bigger there than at the last place!!

Nick,

IMHO you have just nailed the biggest point.

Greedy little fucks who don't their asshole from breakfast.

To me shaving is simple, if you send me 10000 hits and 20 joins but your stats INTENTIONALLY only say you send me 8000k hits and 16 joins, THAT is shaving.

Fuck I've seen an off-the-shelf affiliate solution that has 9 seperate shaving mechanisms. I know of a purpose written one that has more.

We personally don't shave, and I'll put down $10k and even pay for the audit if they show WE do, but we use 3rd party processors, and who the fuck knows what some of them do, so the point is probably moot.

Shit we even give affiliates ALL the email addresses they gather under their revcode - members AND mail grabbers.

All we can do is try.

But we do shave our boys.

:ph34r:

I forget who it was.. Audited Sponsor perhaps? That used to track affiliate programs traffic and signups?

They closed down after around a month or two if memory serves me correctly.

Bought out and then shut down a little birdie tells me....

:ph34r:

Unforgivable.... bad.... very bad..... mmmkay? ;-))

CTB,

I admire your principles. Could you sell me some? ;-))))

I made fortunes with and for Serge and Scotty.

Did they shave me?

FUCK YEAH!!!

Hard and often!!! How do I know? They fucking gloat to me over it!!! LOL

But there checks were bigger than anyone elses.

So what does that say?


;-))

Psss ....
How many time do I have to tell you ALL PROGRAMS SHAVE!!

CBT - Not picking on you but will use you as an example
You use CCBill to process, you have an unintentional shave
CCBill uses a cookie based tracking system, approximately 10% (or less) of surfers have their cookies turned off

There's your unintentional shave