Legal Questions regarding 2257 and how it pertains to DirtyD

[2muchmark2]

I have a couple of questions regarding 2257, minors, and movies.

In any photo shoot or movie shoot, you as the producer obtain photo ID from all of the actors in the shoot. If the face and body are mostly hidden from the camera during a shoot (as they would be in Dirty D's Glory Hole stuff, how is the 2257 ID tied to the actors? After all, it could be anyones penis sticking through.

Here's another: In a movie or scene with 2 or more actors, wouldn't the 2257 or Proof of Age documentation be required to be presented (and maybe signed off on) from every actor, to every other actor. in a scene? If not, how would any actor know if his or her fellow actors are adults?

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by 2muchmark2

I have a couple of questions regarding 2257, minors, and movies.

In any photo shoot or movie shoot, you as the producer obtain photo ID from all of the actors in the shoot. If the face and body are mostly hidden from the camera during a shoot (as they would be in Dirty D's Glory Hole stuff, how is the 2257 ID tied to the actors? After all, it could be anyones penis sticking through.

Here's another: In a movie or scene with 2 or more actors, wouldn't the 2257 or Proof of Age documentation be required to be presented (and maybe signed off on) from every actor, to every other actor. in a scene? If not, how would any actor know if his or her fellow actors are adults?

Sounds like a Oprano lawyer question to me ....

[pornlaw]

Originally Posted by 2muchmark2

I have a couple of questions regarding 2257, minors, and movies.

In any photo shoot or movie shoot, you as the producer obtain photo ID from all of the actors in the shoot. If the face and body are mostly hidden from the camera during a shoot (as they would be in Dirty D's Glory Hole stuff, how is the 2257 ID tied to the actors? After all, it could be anyones penis sticking through.

As the producer you better be able to prove whom the actor in the video is. When there are scenes shot without faces I always instruct my clients to film some BTS footage than can be used to tie the two together. The burden of proof is on the producer.

Here's another: In a movie or scene with 2 or more actors, wouldn't the 2257 or Proof of Age documentation be required to be presented (and maybe signed off on) from every actor, to every other actor. in a scene? If not, how would any actor know if his or her fellow actors are adults?

Interesting but not really relevant. I have never seen an actor charged with having sex with a minor in a case where there is an underage performer. Perhaps but unlikely.

I expect Dirty Ds situation to grow worse and LE will probably be going through all of his docs looking for other underage performers. I would also expect them to call some of the ones that are borderline and even run some of the IDs to see if they are fake.

It might even go as far as 2257 and the FBI but we will have to wait and see. In the Ray Guhn case in Florida, the DA added charges as the investigation continued.

It could even impact the affiliates - just as it reached down to the distributors in the Traci Lord case.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by pornlaw

As the producer you better be able to prove whom the actor in the video is. When there are scenes shot without faces I always instruct my clients to film some BTS footage than can be used to tie the two together. The burden of proof is on the producer.



Interesting but not really relevant. I have never seen an actor charged with having sex with a minor in a case where there is an underage performer. Perhaps but unlikely.

I expect Dirty Ds situation to grow worse and LE will probably be going through all of his docs looking for other underage performers. I would also expect them to call some of the ones that are borderline and even run some of the IDs to see if they are fake.

It might even go as far as 2257 and the FBI but we will have to wait and see. In the Ray Guhn case in Florida, the DA added charges as the investigation continued.

It could even impact the affiliates - just as it reached down to the distributors in the Traci Lord case.

Damn. PULL THEM LINKS!

[Hell Puppy]

We always run at least one "security cam" during a shoot. It's just an extra video camera static on a tripod stashed in the corner out of the way with a wide shot of the room and performance. That tape gets stored with the original raw footage and pics of the shoot including the 2257 docs. It also has the footage of the model presenting the ID and signing release.

If there's ever a question about exactly what happened or was said at a shoot, we've got it on tape.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by 2muchmark2

Here's another: In a movie or scene with 2 or more actors, wouldn't the 2257 or Proof of Age documentation be required to be presented (and maybe signed off on) from every actor, to every other actor. in a scene?

Checking IDs is usually left up to the producer but each performer should at least be checking the AIDS/STD tests of all the other performers prior to a shoot. But from what I hear, AIDS/STD tests are not something that is mandatory at these shoots either.

When you play fast and loose, doing things the outlaw way, sooner or later John Law will come knocking.

[pornlaw]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

We always run at least one "security cam" during a shoot. It's just an extra video camera static on a tripod stashed in the corner out of the way with a wide shot of the room and performance. That tape gets stored with the original raw footage and pics of the shoot including the 2257 docs. It also has the footage of the model presenting the ID and signing release.

If there's ever a question about exactly what happened or was said at a shoot, we've got it on tape.

I would recommend keeping a copy of all of this in a safety deposit box as well. Once LE comes in with a search warrant those tapes and everything else will be carted off.

This is one way www.2257Safe.com can really help. Its off site storage of your records that can be accessed by anyone anywhere with a password.

If LE comes in and confiscates all records including 2257 records you will have to fight to get them back. And if you're arrested you will have a harder time than just getting them back.

With a mere password you can give your lawyer access to the records so as to help defend you. Dirty D is in Spain and has no way to getting to his records and he even admitted they are probably already gone.

You can have all the proof you want but once LE takes it, it is out of your control and if something is "lost" the burden remains on you to prove it existed. At least always have back up storage of everything off site and off your servers in case those are also confiscated.

[Cleo]

We've been using a free server based script that works out very well.

The person that wrote it is long gone so if someone is interested in picking it up and rereleasing it I could zip up all the script files and send it to them.

The admin


Files on server

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by pornlaw

It could even impact the affiliates - just as it reached down to the distributors in the Traci Lord case.

Don't forget the retailers.....

It reached the retailers. I was one of them at the time.

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by pornlaw

I would recommend keeping a copy of all of this in a safety deposit box as well. Once LE comes in with a search warrant those tapes and everything else will be carted off.

This is one way www.2257Safe.com can really help. Its off site storage of your records that can be accessed by anyone anywhere with a password.

If LE comes in and confiscates all records including 2257 records you will have to fight to get them back. And if you're arrested you will have a harder time than just getting them back.

With a mere password you can give your lawyer access to the records so as to help defend you. Dirty D is in Spain and has no way to getting to his records and he even admitted they are probably already gone.

You can have all the proof you want but once LE takes it, it is out of your control and if something is "lost" the burden remains on you to prove it existed. At least always have back up storage of everything off site and off your servers in case those are also confiscated.

Good advice.

Everything important exists in at least 2 physical locations. Never really thought so much about a LE seizure as the reason, but more so fire or natural disaster.

[NY Jester]

I know we are n the 2257 issue and I had asked a 2257 question in the Law forum, I hope that maybe it could get answered.

Thanks
http://www.oprano.com/msgboard/showt...ewpost&t=94213

[dirtysgoindown]

Pornlaw, from my understanding, the drivers license used in this incident was from one of the model's friends with a picture that looked nothing like the model. Shouldn't this have been the first sign something was not kosher and he should pass on it?

According to the girl's statement, this "suitcase pimp" Eric from 305 Modeling (believed to have been Michael Chapin but not verified, knew she was under 18 and the actual sex that occurred itself is not illegal because the girl was emancipated through her legal marriage but her age was communicated to the accused parties and she was instructed to bring a fake ID and then told explicitly to copy the information on the ID to the model form. Reading between the lines, its easy to see the implication here.

If the picture on the drivers license used looks nothing like the model, does that make the case against him and his defense even worse?

[pornlaw]

Without commenting on the facts of Dirty D's case since I dont really know what happened...

If the ID is fake and its a good fake, meaning that there is little way to tell and an expert would testify to that, the producer would have a solid defense. And that would apply to 2257 violations as well.

If the pics donts match or the info doesnt match or the fake is just a cheap one that even a laymen shoud question it.. then I think the prosecutor will be able to meet their burden.

Put yourself on the jury....

[softball]

Here's a quandary. I comply with 2257....in Canada. The FBI wants to visit my address. Good so far? They cross the border and now have less authority than I do. The Canadian government says it is illegal for me to give out his information to anyone except law enforcement, but they are not law enforcement. Pornlaw, as an American lawyer, what would you suggest they do?

[pornlaw]

The FBI agent in charge of inspections indicated in 2007 that they wouldnt be leaving American soil to conduct inspections...

[Charles Taylor]

Originally Posted by dirtysgoindown

Pornlaw, from my understanding, the drivers license used in this incident was from one of the model's friends with a picture that looked nothing like the model. Shouldn't this have been the first sign something was not kosher and he should pass on it?

According to the girl's statement, this "suitcase pimp" Eric from 305 Modeling (believed to have been Michael Chapin but not verified, knew she was under 18 and the actual sex that occurred itself is not illegal because the girl was emancipated through her legal marriage but her age was communicated to the accused parties and she was instructed to bring a fake ID and then told explicitly to copy the information on the ID to the model form. Reading between the lines, its easy to see the implication here.

If the picture on the drivers license used looks nothing like the model, does that make the case against him and his defense even worse?

Don’t forget that I too was also involved as well in the bombing Pan Am Flight 103, the John F. Kennedy assassination and the disappearance of James Riddle "Jimmy" Hoffa. The key words are "believed but not verified".....

I strongly advise you to please verify your facts before you libel yourself on an open public forum.

Thanks!

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by Charles Taylor

Don’t forget that I too was also involved as well in the bombing Pan Am Flight 103, the John F. Kennedy assassination and the disappearance of James Riddle "Jimmy" Hoffa. The key words are "believed but not verified".....

I strongly advise you to please verify your facts before you libel yourself on an open public forum.

Thanks!

Where DID you hide Jimmy? That guy owes me $20, and I want it.