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Old 01-16-2005   #1
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I firmely believe he was just following orders, and I am appalled that our governemnt let him be the sacraficial lamb like they have...

if anyone deserves jail time it is Rumsfeld...
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Old 01-16-2005   #2
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Quote:
Originally posted by JoesHO1@Jan 16 2005, 03:17 PM
I firmely believe he was just following orders, and I am appalled that our governemnt let him be the sacraficial lamb like they have...

if anyone deserves jail time it is Rumsfeld...
I am neither surprised or appalled, it is standard operating procedure. They stated day one that it was just a small group and that they were going to take them down and stop there and they pretty much showed that they could not care less about any evidence to the contrary.

I am however, disgusted.
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Old 01-16-2005   #3
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what sucks is these lower level soldiers will get buttfucked and those who gave the orders will get off scot free and probably write a book 25 years from now telling how they made an error in judgement...

let's be honest, the only mistake these soldiers made was photographing their exploits...

this is why adult conventions have actually mellowed out...too many fucking cameras around...
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Old 01-16-2005   #4
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There was no excuse for what they did. None. Zero. The orders came from above and they too should be pilloried. There was no excuse for what they did. None. Zero.

They are all as guilty as sin and I mean that literally. Rumsfeld is a dangerous man. But then so is his boss.
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Old 01-16-2005   #5
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He was following orders and didn't do anything worse than most HS and college fraternity hazings.

Now Nick's going to tell me again how I lack compassion :P
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Old 01-16-2005   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Peaches@Jan 16 2005, 12:36 PM
He was following orders and didn't do anything worse than most HS and college fraternity hazings.

Now Nick's going to tell me again how I lack compassion :P
WTF are you thinking? College hazing? These were prisoners of war. Not willing participants. Humiliation well beyond the norm. What is pathetic, though, is how many Americans will die because of this "HS prank". How many more fighters were recruited because of what happened. If he was following orders, he should have got them in writing if he was being ordered to break the Geneva Convention. Even in war, crimes are still illegal.
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Old 01-16-2005   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11+Jan 16 2005, 03:42 PM-->
QUOTE (rhymer11 @ Jan 16 2005, 03:42 PM)
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Old 01-16-2005   #8
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Old 01-16-2005   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11+Jan 16 2005, 04:09 PM-->
QUOTE (rhymer11 @ Jan 16 2005, 04:09 PM)
Quote:
Originally posted by SykkBoy@Jan 16 2005, 12:56 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11@Jan 16 2005, 03:42 PM
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Old 01-16-2005   #10
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QUOTE (SykkBoy @ Jan 16 2005, 01:16 PM)
Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11@Jan 16 2005, 04:09 PM
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Originally posted by SykkBoy@Jan 16 2005, 12:56 PM
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Old 01-16-2005   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11+Jan 16 2005, 04:25 PM-->
QUOTE (rhymer11 @ Jan 16 2005, 04:25 PM)
Quote:
Originally posted by SykkBoy@Jan 16 2005, 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11@Jan 16 2005, 04:09 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by SykkBoy@Jan 16 2005, 12:56 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11@Jan 16 2005, 03:42 PM
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Old 01-16-2005   #12
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"I probably wouldn't have got to mount my mighty steed and warned an american colonel that he was an idiot and I was this brilliant military mind."
That is not how it happened. You just don't have a clue.
So from what I understand, after insulting me, you really know shit from shinola about this whole thing. 'nuff said Sykk. Go back to webmastering where at least you haven't shot your street cred in the foot.
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Old 01-16-2005   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by JoesHO1@Jan 16 2005, 12:17 PM
I firmely believe he was just following orders, and I am appalled that our governemnt let him be the sacraficial lamb like they have...

if anyone deserves jail time it is Rumsfeld...
as my dad used to say "Shit rolls downhill"

surprised? no.

too harsh, not at all. whomever was found guilty deserves it.
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Old 01-16-2005   #14
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Old 01-16-2005   #15
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I agree, but the punishment fits the crime. Who committed the crime is another story.
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Old 01-16-2005   #16
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Originally posted by grimm@Jan 16 2005, 01:50 PM
I agree, but the punishment fits the crime. Who committed the crime is another story.
The punishment fits for sure. The story will be told. Remember Watergate. It all came crashing down in Nixxon's second term.
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Old 01-16-2005   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11@Jan 16 2005, 04:43 PM
"I probably wouldn't have got to mount my mighty steed and warned an american colonel that he was an idiot and I was this brilliant military mind."
That is not how it happened. You just don't have a clue.
So from what I understand, after insulting me, you really know shit from shinola about this whole thing. 'nuff said Sykk. Go back to webmastering where at least you haven't shot your street cred in the foot.
then how did it happen?
you act like you were this big hero giving a warning that went unheeded, like you were this brilliant military mind...

"So from what I understand, after insulting me, you really know shit from shinola about this whole thing."

nice brush off when you can't defend your own (in)actions
your typical style, I would never expect anything less of you
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Old 01-16-2005   #18
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Old 01-16-2005   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11+Jan 16 2005, 05:02 PM-->
QUOTE (rhymer11 @ Jan 16 2005, 05:02 PM)
Quote:
Originally posted by SykkBoy@Jan 16 2005, 01:56 PM
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Old 01-16-2005   #20
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Old 01-16-2005   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11@Jan 16 2005, 06:09 PM
Not at all. No need to spin this one. You lied. You lost. You look like a wanker. And then to finish it all off, you lied one more time. Kid, you are pathetic. Too many war movies. Too many porn movies as well, I think.
Once again I suspect you are the only one who thinks you "won".
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Old 01-16-2005   #22
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Old 01-16-2005   #23
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[quote]Originally posted by rhymer11@Jan 16 2005, 01:09 PM
[quote=SykkBoy,Jan 16 2005, 12:56 PM]
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymer11,Jan 16 2005, 03:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peaches,Jan 16 2005, 12:36 PM
He was following orders and didn't do anything worse than most HS and college fraternity hazings.

Now Nick's going to tell me again how I lack compassion :P
I agree with rhymer on the fact that I truly think Bush's actions has put us all in more harm. Over 100k civilians killed in Iraq.

That prolly means there is a 2m children , teenagers , or young adults that will now have a very strong reason to loathe the west.

On the 1% law thats a lot of potential terrorist.

On the toturing...

"Trust a wop to bring a knife to a gunfight"

The dumb thing that was getting caught.

I think the whole matter should have been hushed up , real quick.

I would have dropped the charges to "conduct unbecoming" simply for being dumb enough to take pictures and taken the heat.

If Bush stood up and said "Fuck it.Its a fucking war.They tortured a few of them.In the schmeme of things I don't give a fuck."

He would have lost 6 maybve 10 votes total. ;-)))

I had two friends in the SAS in Britain.They both at different times inferred to me if you hear of an IRA bomber that was "blown up by his own bomb" ....nawwwwwww ;-))))

The SAS killed suspected terroists in Gibralter.Walked up t them all in black and shot them.Tried in Britain as "Lt.X" and "Sgt.Y". Found not guilty.

I was specifically asked , going through the selection process in England for a Regular Commission in the Army.

""You are the commanding officer of a tank squadron , and have captured an enemy officer that you strongly believe has information concerning your objective , that may affect the welfare of your command.What action do you take?"

My answer was along the lines of...The welfare and safety of my men are tantamount.I would extract the information I need by any means necessary to ensure the welfare of my men.

I was accepted.


.....


Oh and rhymer,

""Yes I have been under fire. ""
where?

""Yes I have been pinned down by incoming. ""
ummm where?

""Yes I have seen the devastating results of a truck bomb that killed 42 american marines. Yes I have been under airstrikes and seen people killed and have been blown off my feet. ""
where?
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Old 01-16-2005   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11+Jan 16 2005, 05:09 PM-->
QUOTE (rhymer11 @ Jan 16 2005, 05:09 PM)
Quote:
Originally posted by SykkBoy@Jan 16 2005, 02:05 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11@Jan 16 2005, 05:02 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by SykkBoy@Jan 16 2005, 01:56 PM
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Old 01-16-2005   #25
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QUOTE (SykkBoy @ Jan 16 2005, 02:50 PM)
Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11@Jan 16 2005, 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by SykkBoy@Jan 16 2005, 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by rhymer11@Jan 16 2005, 05:02 PM
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Old 01-16-2005   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11+Jan 16 2005, 05:56 PM-->
QUOTE (rhymer11 @ Jan 16 2005, 05:56 PM)
Quote:
Originally posted by SykkBoy@Jan 16 2005, 02:50 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11@Jan 16 2005, 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by SykkBoy@Jan 16 2005, 02:05 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11@Jan 16 2005, 05:02 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by SykkBoy@Jan 16 2005, 01:56 PM
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Old 01-16-2005   #27
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Nice try, loser. LMFAO. Peaches will help you out.
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Old 01-16-2005   #28
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Rhymer,

You are going back to your old self again , huh?
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Old 01-16-2005   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11+Jan 16 2005, 01:09 PM-->
QUOTE (rhymer11 @ Jan 16 2005, 01:09 PM)
Quote:
Originally posted by SykkBoy@Jan 16 2005, 12:56 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11@Jan 16 2005, 03:42 PM
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Old 01-16-2005   #30
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Already asked him ;-)))

See above
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Old 01-16-2005   #31
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Yes, 10 years for being stupid enough to get caught - if you are going to break the Geneva convention, then please do a better job of hidding the evidence h34r:
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Old 01-16-2005   #32
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Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Jan 16 2005, 03:14 PM


Already asked him ;-)))

See above
haha I noticed, I didn't finish the thread I saw is bullshit and went straight for the typing LOL

Rhymer

gives us the details on your service record please, and I also would like dates of these events

what is the problem kid? all show and no go?
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Old 01-16-2005   #33
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Rhymer,

You are going back to your old self again , huh?
No, Nick. But if you follow the thread, you will find that SykkKid was itching for a fight.
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Old 01-16-2005   #34
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Originally posted by JoesHO1+Jan 16 2005, 03:10 PM-->
QUOTE (JoesHO1 @ Jan 16 2005, 03:10 PM)
Quote:
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Old 01-16-2005   #35
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Just re read it , both this thread and the thread of Vick's thats been affected.

IMHO , its you.

Do me a favour and lighten up.

Can we all debate issues without bringing this ass into it?
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Old 01-16-2005   #36
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Old 01-16-2005   #37
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rhymer,

Both Joe and myself asked you to explain how you found yourself in these situations.

Why is it so hard to elaborate on?
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Old 01-16-2005   #38
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Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Jan 16 2005, 03:39 PM
Just re read it , both this thread and the thread of Vick's thats been affected.

IMHO , its you.

Do me a favour and lighten up.

Can we all debate issues without bringing this ass into it?
I would love to Nick, but he just jumped in.

edit

" have you ever been in the service?

what if YOUR fellow soldiers or what if YOUR family were being held by these people? would you be nice and throw them a tea party?

so what would YOU do? probably just cower in a corner and cry in a puddle of your own piss"

You think this has any relevance in a serious disucssion nick? Do you not think this deserves a retort?
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Old 01-16-2005   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by rhymer11+Jan 16 2005, 06:37 PM-->
QUOTE (rhymer11 @ Jan 16 2005, 06:37 PM)
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Old 01-16-2005   #40
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OK,...please elaborate , rhymer.

Guys , let him explain himself , then.
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Old 01-16-2005   #41
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QUOTE (rhymer11 @ Jan 16 2005, 03:41 PM)
Quote:
Originally posted by JoesHO1@Jan 16 2005, 03:23 PM
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Old 01-16-2005   #42
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rhymer,

Both Joe and myself asked you to explain how you found yourself in these situations.

Why is it so hard to elaborate on?
Because that is a past life. You do watch television don't you? Who the fuck do you think takes pictures of wars? I have even posted this here before. It was my job.
Now this snot nosed kid winds me up about pissing in my pants wtf do you think I am going to say?
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Old 01-16-2005   #43
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Old 01-16-2005   #44
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ok....ya know....

I hate to say it , I believe ryhmer on this.

A photog might well have been in those situations.And it is his background.

Ok , gentlemen.

This is an interesting thread , can we go back to the discussion in hand now?

I understand how things ccan get heated , but though it may be entertaining to see a full scale piss , it is just as entertaining to see a piss over issues and subjects without it falling into the trap of personal attacks.
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Old 01-16-2005   #45
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show me some of the pics, I am from close to missouri and seeing is believing...

who were you working for at the time?
details

is that so hard to believe that someone wants to se without you geting all defensive?
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Old 01-16-2005   #46
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ok....ya know....

I hate to say it , I believe ryhmer on this.

A photog might well have been in those situations.And it is his background.

Ok , gentlemen.

This is an interesting thread , can we go back to the discussion in hand now?

I understand how things ccan get heated , but though it may be entertaining to see a full scale piss , it is just as entertaining to see a piss over issues and subjects without it falling into the trap of personal attacks.
Thank you. I have no problem debating issues. I have no problem debating politics. I have a long history of being in shit both literally....wars and disasters...and figuratively...in discussions. But I will not tolerate being attacked for telling the truth. Especially by those with no experience in what they speak. I have great respect for those who have put it on the line for whatever reason. I have zero tolerance for those who pretend. Just remember, I tell the truth. If I say I have met Jimmy Carter, I have. I have said my piece on this one.
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Old 01-16-2005   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by JoesHO1@Jan 16 2005, 03:57 PM
show me some of the pics, I am from close to missouri and seeing is believing...

who were you working for at the time?
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is that so hard to believe that someone wants to se without you geting all defensive?
I'll piss myself if he does!!! LOL


Ok...now I want a clean break gentlemen.


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Old 01-16-2005   #48
rhymer11
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Quote:
Originally posted by JoesHO1@Jan 16 2005, 03:57 PM
show me some of the pics, I am from close to missouri and seeing is believing...

who were you working for at the time?
details

is that so hard to believe that someone wants to se without you geting all defensive?
Fuck right off Joe. I have nothing to prove to you, no matter where you come from. You have not even proven yourself in this business.
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Old 01-16-2005   #49
sarettah
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The rule of thumb in the military when it comes to "legal vs illegal orders" is to obey the order first and then question it... It is patently obvious that they "small group" at the prison was following orders.. Several of them questioned the orders and were basically told to shut up..

The commanding officer is ultimately responsible for all actions of any personnel within their command.

Thus the CO should go down, all officers involved should go down, and any of the enlisted personnel who did not question what were obviously illegal orders should perhaps serve some punishment.

That is not what will happen, but it what should happen.
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Old 01-16-2005   #50
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Originally posted by Nickatilynx+Jan 16 2005, 04:00 PM-->
QUOTE (Nickatilynx @ Jan 16 2005, 04:00 PM)
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