No Health Care For Smokers?

[PornoDoggy]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/l...re/4543664.stm

Last Updated: Monday, 19 December 2005, 19:18 GMT

A Lincoln man has criticised a hospital which is refusing to treat him until he stops smoking.

Lincoln County Hospital has told Frederick Smith, 60, he must give up his 15-a-day habit for six months before he can be treated.

Mr Smith said the narrowing of the arteries in his leg could be caused by a number of things, not just smoking.

But a spokeswoman for Lincoln County Hospital said treating smokers sent out the message they condoned the habit.

Mr Smith said: "All I want to know is what is causing this.


To proceed with treatment whilst patients smoke gives the wrong message
Hospital spokesperson

"Who's to know I could be in a wheelchair in six months' time. Perhaps unable to walk, maybe even lose a leg, or even my life.

"It would cost far more to put that sort of problem right than seeing me now."

The hospital spokesperson said: "To proceed with treatment whilst patients smoke gives the wrong message as it condones the habit.

"This view is supported by recent guidelines from the National Institute for Clinical Excellence (NICE) and the Vascular Society."

Surgeon Andrew Lamerton wrote to Mr Smith advising him to stop smoking: "Giving up smoking may lead to an improvement in a patient's symptoms.

"Unless the condition was limb-threatening this would always be the preferred option and the best course of action for the patient, helping them to avoid medical or surgical intervention."

Mr Lamerton said that in 75% of patients who take his advice and stop smoking for six months there is an improvement in symptoms and no other treatment is necessary.

[Osiris]

Good.

[TheEnforcer]

Hmmmm.. I'm not a smoker but that annoys me. The UK is under a different type of medical system though. Here si the state we have higher premiums and such for smokers, etc. etc. but there I'm not sure if certain people pay more for ther healthcare or not?

Any oif you UK folks wanna enlighten us on how the medical system works over there?

[domtheboy]

Well basically we pay a deduction from our wages referred to as our National Insurance, and this pays for the National Health Service (NHS) under which everyone is entitled to hospital treatment for free.

Not sure how this hospital is going to get away with refusing to treat this guy, although it does seem to be a victory for common sense to me IMO.

[TheEnforcer]

Ok.. does everyone pay the same amount or percentage? Do smokers pay more than non-smokers for example?

[domtheboy]

It's a percentage that is proportionate to what you earn.

[DrGuile]

Originally Posted by TheEnforcer

Ok.. does everyone pay the same amount or percentage? Do smokers pay more than non-smokers for example?

If it's like Canada, no they dont. But cigarettes themselves are heavily taxed... and I mean heavily!

a pack of 25 smokes is around 9$CAN I think (8$USD)

[TheEnforcer]

Wow.. ok so the costs are alkready factored in. Personally I don't think the hospital should be denying this man care. He SHOPULD stop smoking to see if it helps but the guy pays for his healthcare like everyone else.

[Trev]

Originally Posted by TheEnforcer

Wow.. ok so the costs are alkready factored in. Personally I don't think the hospital should be denying this man care. He SHOPULD stop smoking to see if it helps but the guy pays for his healthcare like everyone else.

As a smoker I'm more than a little pissed off. Mainly because £480 million a year was pumped into the NHS from the tax they already cream from cigarette sales, plus I currently pay £52.27 a week in national insurance, and most of that goes towards the NHS... the doctor that refuses me treatment better be dieing before he tells me to fuck off


Smokes are £4.72 ($8US'ish) a pack at my local shop and most of that is tax...

[Trev]

Originally Posted by Osiris

Good.

No offence meant here but FUCK YOU!!

[Sin]

It all comes back to that "Life is all about choices" thing again.

[Trev]

Originally Posted by Sin

It all comes back to that "Life is all about choices" thing again.

Not when the government/doctors/nurses/teachers are making my choices it doesn't!

I've tried to quit.. many times over, it would be a whole heap easier if I didn't know any non smokers... because they are they fucktards that apply the most preasure and stress...

[Osiris]

Originally Posted by Trev

Not when the government/doctors/nurses/teachers are making my choices it doesn't!

I've tried to quit.. many times over, it would be a whole heap easier if I didn't know any non smokers... because they are they fucktards that apply the most preasure and stress...

**applies more pressure and stress**

[Trev]

Originally Posted by Osiris

**applies more pressure and stress**

Gave up my last attempt at quitting well over a week ago, I'll never give up trying to give up though.

[Sin]

Originally Posted by Trev

I'll never give up trying to give up though.

That's ...good, at least!

[RyanLanane]

I'm stupid... I had quit for 3 months and started back up..

Eventually when I get everything else straightened out and have a life that is just full of normal stressors I am going o try to quit again. To be honest 90% of it is in your head and EVERY time i have quit more than 3 days I didn't plan it... Just woke up one day and said "Nope, I'm quitting today"

You plan your quit date, it is TEN times as hard. NEVER made it past 3 days that way that I can remember...

[Jeremy]

Fucking health fascists. And smug ones at that.

When Doctors start to fall down the league table of Incidence of Alcoholism by Profession, then their holier-than-thou bleating may be worth listening to.

[Jeremy]

Originally Posted by Sin

It all comes back to that "Life is all about choices" thing again.

Cobblers, Sin.

It comes back to the Hippocratic Oath, which, unless I've misread it, neglects to mention the "you've made your bed, you lie in it" school of medical thought.

[Dravyk]

You tell 'em, Jeremy!!!!

[Red]

Originally Posted by Jeremy

It comes back to the Hippocratic Oath, which, unless I've misread it, neglects to mention the "you've made your bed, you lie in it" school of medical thought.

Absolutely right.

Arterial stenosis ( a narrowing of the arteries) can be caused by several things, the most common being a build up of plaque that narrows the lumen (opening of the artery.) I'm not saying that smoking doesn't contribute to the problem because it does. Smoking causes the blood vessels to constrict which will makes it harder for the blood to flow through the already narrow pathway. But it isn't the only cause and the hospital is negligent if they don't determine other contributing factors and treat them.

For the hospital not to treat smokers does indeed violate the Hippocratic Oath. Will they stop treating overweight patients for coronary artery disease until they lose weight on their own first? This can set a terrible precedent.

[Trev]

Originally Posted by Red

Will they stop treating overweight patients for coronary artery disease until they lose weight on their own first? This can set a terrible precedent.

There's an article I've read a few months ago, I'll need to dig it out to make sure but I think that's a yes as well... I think it's a different hospital though, I'll see if I can find it.

[PornoDoggy]

Originally Posted by Trev

There's an article I've read a few months ago, I'll need to dig it out to make sure but I think that's a yes as well... I think it's a different hospital though, I'll see if I can find it.

There is at least one hospital/health district in the UK that has implemented such a policy.

[JR]

imagine the savings in health care costs if they just let a few people like this just die from time to time and totally at random. i bet a few future cancer patients quit smoking because of this. if people want to kill themselves, others should not have to pay for it. but what do i know. i am just an asshole, conservative capitalist that believes in personal accountability and that the government just fucks things up the more they are involved. can't imagine trusting my life to them... to me, an entire country depending on government for their health care seems more insane than refusing a guy treatment.

[JR]

Originally Posted by Jeremy

Cobblers, Sin.

It comes back to the Hippocratic Oath, which, unless I've misread it, neglects to mention the "you've made your bed, you lie in it" school of medical thought.

i guess hippocrates was not a marlboro man.

an ancient oath to greek gods and goddesses apparently doesn't apply to a self destructive society 2000 years later, full of people who willfully kill themselves at the DIRECT expense of others.

besides, pledging to protect someones health can also be taken to mean that its necessary to stop them from being idiots who are slowly comitting suicide.

[Trev]

Originally Posted by PornoDoggy

There is at least one hospital/health district in the UK that has implemented such a policy.

I found the article, it's knee and hip replacements that obese patients are being denied:
http://www.abcmoney.co.uk/news/2420051408.htm

[Dravyk]

The only reason I smoke is to purposely annoy JR.

[Trev]

Originally Posted by Dravyk

The only reason I smoke is to purposely annoy JR.

Pretty much the same reason I smoke, there's nothing quite like the look I get from a non smoker when I blow my smoke in their face... makes it all so much more fun

[JR]

Originally Posted by Dravyk

The only reason I smoke is to purposely annoy JR.

the only thing that annoys me about smokers is their moronic insistence that its their right to force me to smell it and breath it. i don't talk to you while throwing feces at you, please don't talk to me and make me breath cigarette smoke.
thanks

[Dravyk]

Originally Posted by JR

the only thing that annoys me about smokers is their moronic insistence that its their right to force me to smell it and breath it. i don't talk to you while throwing feces at you, please don't talk to me and make me breath cigarette smoke.
thanks

I hope you're able to one day kick your habit of playing with feces, JR.

[JR]

Originally Posted by Dravyk

I hope you're able to one day kick your habit of playing with feces, JR.

its tough. tried many times. started eating a lot and gained some weight. started getting agressive etc. gonna give the turd patch a try. if that wont work.. i will try the turd gum.

[Red]

Originally Posted by JR

its tough. tried many times. started eating a lot and gained some weight. started getting agressive etc. gonna give the turd patch a try. if that wont work.. i will try the turd gum.

Not the turd gum. The flavor is really shitty.