Should Christmas be a National Holiday ??

[sarettah]

Seems to me that keeping the National Holiday as "Christmas" is pretty politically incorrect these dayas.

Shouldn't it be like "MidWinters Fest" or some such so that it does not blatantly endorse the Christians in the country ?

[PornoDoggy]

Seems to me that keeping the National Holiday as "Christmas" is perfectly politically correct these days.

They would be terribly upset if it was spelled the way it is celebrated - Chri$tma$.

[Trev]

This is why you have days like this:
http://www.oprano.com/msgboard/showthread.php?t=44970

You waste too much time thinking about bullshit meaningless junk

[Peaches]

Why not? MLK Day and Columbus Day are Federal Holidays. I daresay more people worship Jesus than MLK and/or Columbus

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by Peaches

Why not? MLK Day and Columbus Day are Federal Holidays. I daresay more people worship Jesus than MLK and/or Columbus

Honoring the "supposed" discoverer of the New World and a Great American are not the same as honoring an Oriental Therapist who some claim to worship.

By having Christmas be a federal holiday we in fact endorse Christianity as our country's religion.

Those of other faiths who are good citizens should be very insulted.

As far as Columbus day goes, there is a certain population in our country that recognize that as a national day of mourning.

[Vick]

Good points sarettah

I've always be in favor of abolishing the christian holidays

Can they be replaced with a National Money Day
Spend money on whatever, shopping being a highly honored skill

or National Sex day
where you get off work (unless you're a prostitute) and stay home and have sex all day

[Red]

There is absolutely no point in making it an official national holiday.
Most stores are already closed, banks are closed no mail is delivered, so other than endorsing Christianity as the country's religion there is no reason.

I can remember as a teenager my friends and I absolutely hated Christmas because everything was closed, there were nothing but Christmas specials on TV(this was pre cable) and we never had anything to do.

[MorganGrayson]

I need "National Holiday" defined before I can fully participate in the actual question. I thought "National Holidays" required a presidential/congressional/whatever proclamation as opposed to "tradition."

My son-in-law the Druid is seriously anti-Christmas. My daughter the "eccentric person" snapped "FINE! Call it a 'Yule Tree' if you want...but by hell we're having one!!!" (It's white with blue ornaments, blue lights and a blue star and Mommy was very happy to kick in for the fund that paid for it. I like tradition, even oddly colored tradition.)

I'm Wiccan and celebrate Yule as well as Christmas. Yule, the Winter Solstice, is a religious holiday for me. Christmas, to me, is a secular holiday and the assigned birthday of ye olde way cool carpenter. (I know it's not the actual birthday, but I can roll with that.)

Every year, my husband does his "Happy Birthday, Jesus...Kill A Tree" speech for any remaining person he hasn't offended with it. (Those people are getting harder and harder to come by as the years pass.) If people truly wanted to celebrate "Christmas" as the birthday of Christ, they'd do it with a birthday cake and as many good deeds as they could pack into the season. All presents would go to the poor, the aged, the ill...anybody other than each other.

Eddie Izzard does a great routine on Christmas. (He also does a great routine on pagans. I like equal opportunity comedians.)

Christmas, to me, has no religious value. It never did. Santa Claus, or my preferred - because he's better looking - Father Christmas, has naught to do with the whole thing. I'm sending out Christmas cards this year because my daughter caught a sale at Barnes and Noble months and months ago and bought them for me. "I saw these and thought immediately of you" is a reason to have Christmas cards. (Impressing the multitude with how much money you can spend on cards is most definitely NOT.) I'm buying Christmas gifts for a lot of people, because I'm lucky enough to have enough people to love that I'm going broke - rapidly. I'm doing it for tradition, though. Yon previously stated religion is rather firm on the good deed doing thing being a 24/7 occupation, not because it's a holiday, religious or otherwise. I'm also hauling out my tiny menorah and lighting the candles appropriately. I figure since my sister married and I have a Jewish wing to my family, I'm entitled to the holidays. (Hanukkah also marks one of the first wars for religious freedom, and as such, I think it's a fine and dandy reason for everyone to have a party.) I also plan on thinking about Red and her family a lot that night. (I'm going to want every recipe for every dish her mother cooks, too!)

But a "National Holiday"? That would smack as "declaring a religion" IF Christmas had a whit of religious value to it anymore. The tree was swiped from the pagans; Santa Claus as we know him today came off an old Coca Cola ad; if there's any worshipping done it's at the Church of the Holy Mastercard.

Absolutely none of our holidays hold fast to the original meaning. Thanksgiving would come close if the story that's handed down wasn't such a blatant lie. The Fourth of July comes close. "President's Day" got sucked up by the "Monday Holiday Bill" or whatever it was called, so two presidents get a combined birthday on a day other than their own. Valentine's Day is a nice holiday, but so few people know that St. Valentine was pitching bags of money over the fence for dowries so that innocent girls wouldn't get sold into prostitution. That might put a damper on the chocolate and flower sales if that was widely known.

All of our holidays sell people things and drive the economy. That's IT. What it means to each individual person is left for them to figure out, if in fact it means anything. It's important to remember that nobody is forced to participate in any of this insanity.

[Peaches]

Is the US the only country that has Christmas as a national holiday? No. The reason is that Christianity is still the largest religious group in the world.

Of course, talking about it on Oprano isn't exactly going to get anything changed. If you TRULY believe it shouldn't be a national holiday, then get active in politics and work on changing it

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by MorganGrayson

I need "National Holiday" defined before I can fully participate in the actual question. I thought "National Holidays" required a presidential/congressional/whatever proclamation as opposed to "tradition."

My son-in-law the Druid is seriously anti-Christmas. My daughter the "eccentric person" snapped "FINE! Call it a 'Yule Tree' if you want...but by hell we're having one!!!" (It's white with blue ornaments, blue lights and a blue star and Mommy was very happy to kick in for the fund that paid for it. I like tradition, even oddly colored tradition.)

I'm Wiccan and celebrate Yule as well as Christmas. Yule, the Winter Solstice, is a religious holiday for me. Christmas, to me, is a secular holiday and the assigned birthday of ye olde way cool carpenter. (I know it's not the actual birthday, but I can roll with that.)

Every year, my husband does his "Happy Birthday, Jesus...Kill A Tree" speech for any remaining person he hasn't offended with it. (Those people are getting harder and harder to come by as the years pass.) If people truly wanted to celebrate "Christmas" as the birthday of Christ, they'd do it with a birthday cake and as many good deeds as they could pack into the season. All presents would go to the poor, the aged, the ill...anybody other than each other.

Eddie Izzard does a great routine on Christmas. (He also does a great routine on pagans. I like equal opportunity comedians.)

Christmas, to me, has no religious value. It never did. Santa Claus, or my preferred - because he's better looking - Father Christmas, has naught to do with the whole thing. I'm sending out Christmas cards this year because my daughter caught a sale at Barnes and Noble months and months ago and bought them for me. "I saw these and thought immediately of you" is a reason to have Christmas cards. (Impressing the multitude with how much money you can spend on cards is most definitely NOT.) I'm buying Christmas gifts for a lot of people, because I'm lucky enough to have enough people to love that I'm going broke - rapidly. I'm doing it for tradition, though. Yon previously stated religion is rather firm on the good deed doing thing being a 24/7 occupation, not because it's a holiday, religious or otherwise. I'm also hauling out my tiny menorah and lighting the candles appropriately. I figure since my sister married and I have a Jewish wing to my family, I'm entitled to the holidays. (Hanukkah also marks one of the first wars for religious freedom, and as such, I think it's a fine and dandy reason for everyone to have a party.) I also plan on thinking about Red and her family a lot that night. (I'm going to want every recipe for every dish her mother cooks, too!)

But a "National Holiday"? That would smack as "declaring a religion" IF Christmas had a whit of religious value to it anymore. The tree was swiped from the pagans; Santa Claus as we know him today came off an old Coca Cola ad; if there's any worshipping done it's at the Church of the Holy Mastercard.

Absolutely none of our holidays hold fast to the original meaning. Thanksgiving would come close if the story that's handed down wasn't such a blatant lie. The Fourth of July comes close. "President's Day" got sucked up by the "Monday Holiday Bill" or whatever it was called, so two presidents get a combined birthday on a day other than their own. Valentine's Day is a nice holiday, but so few people know that St. Valentine was pitching bags of money over the fence for dowries so that innocent girls wouldn't get sold into prostitution. That might put a damper on the chocolate and flower sales if that was widely known.

All of our holidays sell people things and drive the economy. That's IT. What it means to each individual person is left for them to figure out, if in fact it means anything. It's important to remember that nobody is forced to participate in any of this insanity.

For the love of fuck don't anyone define it.

[TheEnforcer]

A national holiday for giving presents is a-ok to me. :>))

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by Peaches

If you TRULY believe it shouldn't be a national holiday, then get active in politics and work on changing it

And get on George Bush's hit list?

No thank you

[Dravyk]

A holiday by any other name would smell as sweet.

[Evil Chris]

You Yanks have too many days off already.

Christ, isn't there a tree felling, or tree planting holiday too?

[Dravyk]

Originally Posted by Evil Chris

You Yanks have too many days off already.

Christ, isn't there a tree felling, or tree planting holiday too?

And this is coming from someone who has a holiday for boxes.

[Evil Chris]

What? Do you mean "wrestling day"?

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by Dravyk

And this is coming from someone who has a holiday for boxes.

Don't mock now!!!

Its an old tradition where the educated and wealthy sent charity to those less fortunate.

Same address this year as last year for yours?

[Evil Chris]

oh aren't the burns just FLYING around here tonight!

[Trev]

Originally Posted by Evil Chris

oh aren't the burns just FLYING around here tonight!

I think we're all just gearing up for the week ahead, all those over stuffed and hungover yanks are just going to be massive fun to play with

[PornoDoggy]

Man, it's funny to see how giving a nigger a holiday still annoys some people...

[Trev]

Originally Posted by PornoDoggy

Man, it's funny to see how giving a nigger a holiday still annoys some people...

I'm going with the hope that you've developed some funky and fucked up food poisoning...

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by Trev

I'm going with the hope that you've developed some funky and fucked up food poisoning...

Nah he's talking about Martin Luther King. It was quite a shitstorm here when they decided to honor him with a holiday.

[Trev]

Originally Posted by sarettah

Nah he's talking about Martin Luther King. It was quite a shitstorm here when they decided to honor him with a holiday.

He fucking deserves one after having to deal with you single celled organisms..

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by Trev

He fucking deserves one after having to deal with you single celled organisms..

Moi ????

[PornoDoggy]

In the first place, honoring Martin Luther King Jr. with a day off school is like honoring Ghandi by slaughering and eating a cow while singing God Save The Queen.

In the second place, comparing a religious holiday like Christmas with secular holidays like Columbus Day or MKL Day is moronic, particularly when it comes from someone I credit with being more intelligent than that. The only people I've seen make that argument with a straight face are the people who argue that "Christians" are oppressed.

And finally - Christmas IS one of the Federal holidays.
2005 Federal Holidays - http://www.opm.gov/fedhol/2005.asp
Friday, December 31, 2004 * New Year's Day New Year's Day
Monday, January 17 Birthday of Martin Luther King, Jr. Martin Luther King
Monday, February 21 Washington's Birthday George Washington
Monday, May 30 Memorial Day Memorial Day - See Our Commemoration Page
Monday, July 4 Independence Day Independence Day
Monday, September 5 Labor Day Labor day
Monday, October 10 Columbus Day Christopher Columbus
Friday, November 11 Veterans Day Veterans Day
Thursday, November 24 Thanksgiving Day Thanksgiving Day
Monday, December 26 ** Christmas Day

[Trev]

Originally Posted by sarettah

Moi ????

Sorry, I wrote "single celled", it should have been single brain celled.


For some reason the Americans are my least favourite posters today, the French are 2 points higher than them currently

[PornoDoggy]

Originally Posted by Trev

I'm going with the hope that you've developed some funky and fucked up food poisoning...

That is not my attitude by any stretch of the imagination, but there are plenty who hold it, even if they struggle to find more socially acceptable arguments to disguise that fact.

[Trev]

Originally Posted by PornoDoggy

That is not my attitude by any stretch of the imagination, but there are plenty who hold it, even if they struggle to find more socially acceptable arguments to disguise that fact.

That saddens me in so many ways. Mainly because that type of ignorance is right here around me and my home.

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by Trev

Sorry, I wrote "single celled", it should have been single brain celled.


For some reason the Americans are my least favourite posters today, the French are 2 points higher than them currently

A burn is one thing, but that's downright insulting dammit

[Dravyk]

Originally Posted by Trev

He fucking deserves one after having to deal with you single celled organisms..

Ah well then, where are all the British holidays for all the people they conquered and fucked over throughout the centuries?

India Day?
Carribbean Day?
USA Day?
Hong Kong Day?
Egypt Day?
Palestine Day?
Australia Day?
Ireland Day?
The list goes on and on and on ...

So where are they? Ah, I thought so.

So where the hell do you have any room to talk whatsoever? Yep, precisely none.

[Dravyk]

Originally Posted by Trev

Sorry, I wrote "single celled", it should have been single brain celled.

For some reason the Americans are my least favourite posters today, the French are 2 points higher than them currently

Well fine. And after the post I just made I'm sure it went down even further!

And learn to spell "favorite" like someone who speaks English and not like the French would.

[Dravyk]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

Don't mock now!!!

Its an old tradition where the educated and wealthy sent charity to those less fortunate.

Same address this year as last year for yours?

Hiding the goods in storage and tossing dirt on my face.

Can I have more food this time, sir? Please, I'm so awfully hungry, I is.

And the little tot, Tim. He really could use some surgery, sir ...

[PornoDoggy]

Trev - yes, we certainly have our fair share of life forms less than human here in this country, but the last teenager I recall reading about being axed because he was black and was dating a white woman didn't happen here.

[Peaches]

Originally Posted by PornoDoggy

Monday, December 26 ** Christmas Day

Damn, and here I always thought Dec. 25th was Christmas Day

And again, we are NOT the only country who has a national holiday for Christmas. We all know the very minute the US took that day away as a vacation day for EVERYONE, there would be an uprising.

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by Peaches

Damn, and here I always thought Dec. 25th was Christmas Day

And again, we are NOT the only country who has a national holiday for Christmas. We all know the very minute the US took that day away as a vacation day for EVERYONE, there would be an uprising.

I didn't say take it away, a mere name change would work..perhaps "All Faiths Day".. A day to acknowledge the various faiths and appreciate the diversity that is America. Or maybe "Capitalist recognition day" A day to celebrate all that the World's production apparatus has provided for us...

[Peaches]

Originally Posted by sarettah

I didn't say take it away, a mere name change would work..perhaps "All Faiths Day".. A day to acknowledge the various faiths and appreciate the diversity that is America. Or maybe "Capitalist recognition day" A day to celebrate all that the World's production apparatus has provided for us...

OK, then you'll only get an uprising from the over 85% of the people in the US who celebrate Christmas

[PornoDoggy]

I don't see the point of changing the name, because contemporary Christmas is far more than just a religious holiday.

The secular side (once you scrape off the materialistic overlay) has returned to its pagan roots - a celebration of family and community.

I got me a sneaking suspicion that the episode with the moneychangers in the temple would look like the Sermon on the Mount if the fellow supposedly being honored got a look at Christmas in America.

[Peaches]

Are ANY of the US National Holidays truly celebrated as they were originally meant to be? Labor Day? Memorial Day? Columbus Day? Thanksgiving? MLK Day? I mean, c'mon - it's a free day off for 99.9% of the population - not much more.

[voodooman]

Who the FUCK cares?

It's a holliday that has been around since before any of us, (except maybe Sarettah and PD) just like religion.

If you don't fucking like Christmas then don't celebrate it, but also, don't bitch about it if others do. There are many hollidays that I don't think need to be celebrated but you don't see me or many others bitching and moaning about it.

People have to much time on their hands when they start bitching about hollidays, and rather the National Anthem should be sung in schools.

[MorganGrayson]

Originally Posted by voodooman

Who the FUCK cares?

This comment I like.

The clash of tiny ecumenical swords gets old. The Constitution is so out the window we've got a shitload more to worry about than whether having Christmas as a National Holiday is declaring a US Religion. Which, yes, all of you who so stated, it does. As does swearing on the Bible in court; the engravings on judicial buildings; our currency; yadda yadda on and on.

So...who the fuck cares? Apparently...nobody.

[Dravyk]

Originally Posted by Peaches

Are ANY of the US National Holidays truly celebrated as they were originally meant to be? Labor Day? Memorial Day? Columbus Day? Thanksgiving? MLK Day? I mean, c'mon - it's a free day off for 99.9% of the population - not much more.

As some black comedian said long ago (was it Eddie Murphy? probably) ... It basically went like this:

"Shit yeah, I'd go for a KKK national holiday. Another day off, hopefully with pay. Hell yeah! I'll be home and even give a toast -- "Happy Fucking Birthday Grand Fucking Wizard Mother Fucker, and t'anks fo' the day off, ya dog-fucking bastard." -- And then go watch me some football."

[PornoDoggy]

I don't give a rat's ass about Christmas. I concluded about 35 years ago, when I still considered myself a Christian, that what gets celebrated in December had nothing to do with religion, unless your idea of the holy trinity is Adam Smith, Sam Walton, and Alan Greeenspan.

Originally Posted by voodooman

It's a holliday that has been around since before any of us, (except maybe Sarettah and PD) just like religion.

May the next individual you arrest have consumed two cases of beer, a dozen boiled eggs, a half-dozen pickled pigs feet, and recover from constipation in the back of your squad car.

[MorganGrayson]

Originally Posted by PornoDoggy

I don't give a rat's ass about Christmas. I concluded about 35 years ago, when I still considered myself a Christian, that what gets celebrated in December had nothing to do with religion, unless your idea of the holy trinity is Adam Smith, Sam Walton, and Alan Greeenspan.


May the next individual you arrest have consumed two cases of beer, a dozen boiled eggs, a half-dozen pickled pigs feet, and recover from constipation in the back of your squad car.

I'm not going to be quite as colorful as PD with this, but voodooman, you're using the "we've always done it this way" argument, which is never a good reason for doing anything.

PD...what gets celebrated in December is determined by the celebrant. Jews and Pagans (just to select two) have a long list of holidays they manage to celebrate without the government having to declare anything. All other religions do, too. Any current calendar will provide you with the dates of unpronouceable holidays that I suspect are the result of the current attempts not to bash Muslims.

Your argument, PD, regarding how Christmas is *actually* celebrated is what caused me to compare it to, and celebrate it as, a secular holiday.

The worst thing that has ever happened to me in my life happend at 1:30 pm on December 28, 1975. For a quarter of a century all Christmas meant to me was unbearable pain. I hated everything about it. My way of "celebrating" Christmas was to try and hold in the grief, which as I was later told by my youngest, I did quite unsuccessfully.

For some, it's a religious holiday, and my best to them. To most people, it's something else. What that something else is, is up to them.

[voodooman]

I think PD was more upset at my comment about him being older than
Xmas, not at my comment.

I could be wrong though.

[PornoDoggy]

My only reason for taking a poke at voodooman was his insinuation that I am old. I mean, I am - but that's beside the point.

I truly wish people would shut the fuck up about this shit. It was only the lame attempt to compare Christmas to other holidays that annoyed me.

I wish the so-called Christians would render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasar's - which, if you live in the United States, happens to be that you live in a secular society where you don't have the right to shove your religion down anyone else's throat using the authority of the state to do the shoving.

I wish the so-called athiests and agnostics would get a grip, and realize that a school having a holiday pagent or lights on a government building do not an endorsement of religion make. Yeah, the blatant bullshit like nativity scenes needs to be addressed, but don't toss the presents out with the used wrapping paper, so to speak.

In an era where federal tax dollars are being dispensed to religious organizations that use it for evangelical as well as assistance purposes, the little tempest in a teapot bullshit like this is nothing but a red herring.

[JR]

Originally Posted by PornoDoggy

Man, it's funny to see how giving a nigger a holiday still annoys some people...

haha. i still remember my inbred grandfather freaking out about this... then he named his black poodle nigger to honor the occasion.

*sigh* what wonderful memories i have of my childhood..... NOT! my family would make jerry springer cry.

[Timon]

I remember someone recently asking do you ever type a long message and then not post it?

I just did... it had something to do with Americans taking being politically correct way too far... but in slightly less politically correct terms than this

[Almighty Colin]

Originally Posted by PornoDoggy

unless your idea of the holy trinity is Adam Smith, Sam Walton, and Alan Greeenspan.

You rang?

[Almighty Colin]

I don't care what it's called. I've celebrated Christmas for more than 20 years as an atheist and other than one aunt who - despite knowing my position on religion - still signs all her XMas cards "God Bless" and driving by churches with over-sized dioramas of baby Jesus in a barn I wouldn't ever know the religious side of the holiday.

[Trev]

Originally Posted by sarettah

A burn is one thing, but that's downright insulting dammit

You have a valid point, I'll bump you yanks up 2 points so that you're level pegging with the French.