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Kyoto should be replaced, and it should include everyone - however I´m not sure that China and other developing countires are ready to pay the real price...
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well mostly the beer that actually tastes like beer... not horse piss... universal healthcare is great... and the fact that there aren't as many murders is always good...
on the other hand i could deal with less snow
its getting much warmer up here... global warming has benefits as well.... I don't freeze my balls off nearly as much as i used to
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I am a Sado-Machiavellian. As long as I cum in the end... It doesn't matter what I did to get there. :yowsa:
I just made that term up.... pretty good eh?
Originally posted by Bhelliom@Jul 5 2005, 09:14 AM on the other hand i could deal with less snow
Then tell the warmongers in your goverment to stop looking for a fight over Hans Island... The danish sirius patrol have better things to do, then wating for the canadian army to arrive in Greenland...
__________________ "Chaos is the law of nature, order is the dream of man."
~Henry B. Adams (Historian) 1838-1918
__________________
I am a Sado-Machiavellian. As long as I cum in the end... It doesn't matter what I did to get there. :yowsa:
I just made that term up.... pretty good eh?
Have you have a chance to read the canadian court case Chaoulli v. Quebec ?
Here is a little snippet about the wonderful candian health care.
Quote:
Plaintiffs Jacques Chaoulli, a physician, and his patient, George Zeliotis, launched their legal challenge to the government's monopolized healthcare system after having had to wait a year for hip-replacement surgery. In finding for the plaintiffs, Canada's high court said, "The evidence in this case shows that delays in the public healthcare system are widespread, and that, in some serious cases, patients die as a result of waiting lists for public healthcare. The evidence also demonstrates that the prohibition against private health insurance and its consequence of denying people vital healthcare result in physical and psychological suffering that meets a threshold test of seriousness." Writing for the majority, Justice Marie Deschamps said, "Many patients on non-urgent waiting lists are in pain and cannot fully enjoy any real quality of life. The right to life and to personal inviolability is therefore affected by the waiting times."
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Plaintiffs Jacques Chaoulli, a physician, and his patient, George Zeliotis, launched their legal challenge to the government's monopolized healthcare system after having had to wait a year for hip-replacement surgery. In finding for the plaintiffs, Canada's high court said, "The evidence in this case shows that delays in the public healthcare system are widespread, and that, in some serious cases, patients die as a result of waiting lists for public healthcare. The evidence also demonstrates that the prohibition against private health insurance and its consequence of denying people vital healthcare result in physical and psychological suffering that meets a threshold test of seriousness." Writing for the majority, Justice Marie Deschamps said, "Many patients on non-urgent waiting lists are in pain and cannot fully enjoy any real quality of life. The right to life and to personal inviolability is therefore affected by the waiting times."
I say the answer is quite simple. Really.
Let American's go over to Canada who can't afford health care, and in exchange Canadians who want to pay for it, can come over here.
I'd like to point out that while some people may die waiting for free health care... its free... and besides, removing them shortens the waiting list
I know I know. asshole thing to say...
I think we actually had a thread about this a while ago.
__________________
I am a Sado-Machiavellian. As long as I cum in the end... It doesn't matter what I did to get there. :yowsa:
I just made that term up.... pretty good eh?
Originally posted by Bhelliom@Jul 5 2005, 12:27 PM I'd like to point out that while some people may die waiting for free health care... its free... and besides, removing them shortens the waiting list
I know I know. asshole thing to say...
I think we actually had a thread about this a while ago.
ohhhh canada, I give my heart to thee...
Quote:
The Vancouver, British Columbia-based Fraser Institute keeps track of Canadian waiting times for various medical procedures. According to the Fraser Institute's 14th annual edition of "Waiting Your Turn: Hospital Waiting Lists in Canada (2004)," total waiting time between referral from a general practitioner and treatment, averaged across all 12 specialties and 10 provinces surveyed, rose from 17.7 weeks in 2003 to 17.9 weeks in 2004. For example, depending on which Canadian province, an MRI requires a wait between 7 and 33 weeks.
Orthopaedic surgery might require a wait of 14 weeks for a referral from a general practitioner to the specialist and then another 24 weeks from the specialist to treatment. That statistic might help explain why Cleveland, Ohio, has become Canada's hip-replacement center.
As reported in a December 2003 story by Kerri Houston for the Frontiers of Freedom Institute titled "Access Denied: Canada's Healthcare System Turns Patients into Victims," in some instances, patients die on the waiting list because they become too sick to tolerate a procedure. Canada's Prime Minister Paul Martin responded to the court's decision saying, "We're not going to have a two-tier healthcare system in this country. What we want to do is strengthen the public healthcare system." That's the standard callous political response. He's telling Canadians to continue waiting, continue suffering and perhaps dying until the day comes when there's no more waiting. And though Canadian politicians can't give their citizens a date certain when there'll be no more waiting, they're determined to deny them alternatives to waiting for government-provided healthcare. I'd bet you the rent money that Prime Minister Martin and members of the Canadian Parliament don't have to wait months and years for a medical procedure.
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Originally posted by Dravyk@Jul 5 2005, 09:31 AM There are people in America can't afford an MRI ever. In which case 7 to 33 weeks would be a blessing.
So which is sadder? Our country or theirs?
I say both.
i think problems in the US are grossly overstated just as they probably are in Canada.
my cousin had to get emergency surgery and it cost $30,000.00 = first he worked out a payment plan with them for 200/mo or something stupid like that... then they forgave the whole thing because he is a young, stupid kid and making almost no money. it was free. they found financial aid for him and they paid the whole thing.
Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Jul 5 2005, 12:30 PM And the relationship between global warming and universal healthcare is ...
maybe if I watched more Fox news I'd understand
PD, I understand how important you are, and that your time is very valueable - but I beg you to read the full thread before giving us your witty pearls of wisdom.
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Originally posted by Dravyk@Jul 5 2005, 12:31 PM There are people in America can't afford an MRI ever. In which case 7 to 33 weeks would be a blessing.
So which is sadder? Our country or theirs?
I say both.
Ding.
Pick your evil.
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Originally posted by DrGuile+Jul 5 2005, 01:07 PM-->
QUOTE (DrGuile @ Jul 5 2005, 01:07 PM)
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Originally posted by Dravyk@Jul 5 2005, 01:31 PM There are people in America can't afford an MRI ever. In which case 7 to 33 weeks would be a blessing.
Since when? If someone truly NEEDS an MRI, they will get it immediately in the US, it doesn't matter if they can afford it or even if they are a legal citizen.
Peaches, as PD said. When a person is seeing a doctor, and they have little or no health insurance, and the MRI would be used to better diagnose something that may or may not be there, that may be nothing or small, it doesn't happen. Again, if one is in ER and the doctor's say it's needed it gets done.
JR, what you said above. The irony again is if someone has nothing, they will usually find money or let it go. If they have assets, a house, a car let's say, but no job, no insurance. Then they'll take away the house and the car, and THEN maybe scrub the remainder of the bill (oh, if they don't also hit the savings account.) If the person has a job, they'll garnish wages.
So gee, everyone can get health care. Right. And then maybe kill themselves afterwards because no car, no house, no money, no self respect, but gee they have their health! I know too many instances of these things having happened. They're not fairy tales, their true American stories. And nothing we can be proud of.
America is going more toward Canada in terms of health insurance? Then, I say, hurrah! And don't worry, those of you with money. Money can ALWAYS get you the best care you need. There's always a doctor out there who will take money.
Originally posted by Bhelliom@Jul 5 2005, 09:14 AM well mostly the beer that actually tastes like beer... not horse piss... universal healthcare is great... and the fact that there aren't as many murders is always good...
on the other hand i could deal with less snow
its getting much warmer up here... global warming has benefits as well.... I don't freeze my balls off nearly as much as i used to
you can trust me when i say, there is PLENTY of fantastic ameican beer
Well if this health thread is turning into a beer thread ....
Used to drink Sam Adams. Couldn't ever have more than two 22 ouncers though, filling and an after taste. Found Anchor Steam, brewed in San Francisco, like Sam but without the extra tin taste that eventually develops; unfortunately few places carry it here.
I enjoy Harp -- but then hey, I'm Irish.
My favorite for the past five years is locally-brewed Yuengling! Best damned beer in the world for my money. Full-bodied ale with no unpleasant after taste, and I can drink them all night long.
Hell, I buy the bottles at two cases at a time for home consuption. That said, there's nothing like draft at one of my favorite watering holes.
Originally posted by Rolo@Jul 5 2005, 12:09 PM Kyoto should be replaced, and it should include everyone - however I´m not sure that China and other developing countires are ready to pay the real price...
if they are ready to pay 18.5 BILLIONS for Unocal (CASH), I say they ARE ready.....
07-05-2005
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