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Old 11-16-2004   #1
Mike AI
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I thought for sure there would be open rebellion on Oprano claiming how the evil imperial US Marine assassinated a wounded, innocent Iraqi.....

I guess I am being too pesimistic.

Glad we are coming together!

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Old 11-16-2004   #2
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike AI@Nov 16 2004, 02:56 PM
I thought for sure there would be open rebellion on Oprano claiming how the evil imperial US Marine assassinated a wounded, innocent Iraqi.....

I guess I am being too pesimistic.

Glad we are coming together!

I have yet to see any regular on this board denigrate the current U.S. Military in any form whatsoever and ask that you post some links to threads where any of us so called "leftists" have done so.

I can't speak for all of us commie liberals (but I'm gonna anyway) but I don't think any of us have a problem with the US military and the Men and Women who serve in it or have served in it. In fact, many of the military veterans on the board (myself included) fit into the liberal ilk that you so love to hate.

Many of us have a problem with the guy in charge of the whole mess (George, not Dick), many of us have a problem with the US invading a sovereign nation under false pretenses, many of us have problems with an announcement stating the war is over when it had hardly begun, many of us have problems with a political party that strives to breed ignorance and depends upon that ignorance to prevail. But I don't think any of us have a problem with the military or the men and women that proudly serve.

Mistakes happen, whether the Marine was following SOP (standard operating procedures for you armchair generals) or whether it was a moment of frustration, I think any of us who have been in any situation even remotely close to that can sympathize. He was in a lose-lose situation for the most part as far as I can tell. If he goes and tries to help the wounded guy, he faces the possibility of booby traps and such and then there is the problem of what to do with the prisoner. Drag him along on the rest of the mission ? Leave him there and then find out he was fully mobile and is now eating your flank ? Lot's of problems if the guy is left alive. Simple, most expedient solution is kill the guy.
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Old 11-16-2004   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike AI@Nov 16 2004, 02:56 PM
I thought for sure there would be open rebellion on Oprano claiming how the evil imperial US Marine assassinated a wounded, innocent Iraqi.....

I guess I am being too pesimistic.

Glad we are coming together!

what you're being told and what you believe about the better half of this country is complete bullshit.

baaa-baaa baby.... tell us something good about your deserter hero Bush and why you voted for the lifetime loser.
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Old 11-16-2004   #4
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I was not there, and have not seen the video. However, I have seen the mainstream media get worked up in a hizzy over this, and I have a bad feeling they are going to take out their hatred of Bush on this Marine.

The same mainstream media who lauds Arafat the past week will try to hang this young man out to dry.

Hopefully, this will not happen.....
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Old 11-16-2004   #5
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Mike,
you can enjoy this clip instead
;-))

http://www.michiganmarines.org/media/Court...Marineshigh.wmv
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Old 11-16-2004   #6
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Mike,

If this was an accident or the marine felt in danger, etc then he will be ok I suppose.

If the marine didn't follow the rules of engagement dealing with wounded - unarmed enemy combatants, then he will be delt with according to the ucmj..

It's not so much the media wants to hang him out to dry, it a "new - potential big story" for them
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Old 11-16-2004   #7
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I have seen the video. My opinion is that this is how both sides act in almost all wars (everyday). I think we are just in the 21st century and more of these actions will be made public. I am not condoning this action but I do think this is probably more common than most would think.
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Old 11-16-2004   #8
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Dig, still have a bad taste in your mouth???

You can take Kerry's dick out of your mouth now.... 4 more years of crying!! Should I start playing my violin for you?


As far as I am concerned, the Marine gets the benefit of the doubt. Especially when fighting animals who use homicide bombers. How was Marine to know if he was not booby-trapped?
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Old 11-16-2004   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jesse_DD@Nov 16 2004, 03:18 PM
I have seen the video. My opinion is that this is how both sides act in almost all wars (everyday). I think we are just in the 21st century and more of these actions will be made public. I am not condoning this action but I do think this is probably more common than most would think.

Of course it is. Remember the outcry in Band of Brothers when they shot down the Germans? War is humans at their worst.

The ironic thing is the embedded reporter who started this, was being PROTECTED by Marines like this. This Marine had a responsibility to his fellow Marines, and to reporters to make sure they were all safe. When your enemies take the low ground, it creates incidents like this.

I just hope the mainstream media does not try to make an example of this guy.
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Old 11-16-2004   #10
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"I just hope the mainstream media does not try to make an example of this guy.'

Unfortunately, I think this is a forgone conclusion. Although I expected the beat of the drum to be quite a bit quicker and louder to this point.
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Old 11-16-2004   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jesse_DD@Nov 16 2004, 03:31 PM
"I just hope the mainstream media does not try to make an example of this guy.'

Unfortunately, I think this is a forgone conclusion. Although I expected the beat of the drum to be quite a bit quicker and louder to this point.

Well I hope the 51% will rise up, and work to defend this guy in public.

Maybe Dan Rather can find some forged documents....
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Old 11-16-2004   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by sarettah@Nov 16 2004, 03:09 PM
many of us have problems with a political party that strives to breed ignorance and depends upon that ignorance to prevail
For example?
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Old 11-16-2004   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Diamond Jim+Nov 16 2004, 03:46 PM-->
QUOTE (Diamond Jim @ Nov 16 2004, 03:46 PM)
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Old 11-16-2004   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike AI+Nov 16 2004, 03:48 PM-->
QUOTE (Mike AI @ Nov 16 2004, 03:48 PM)
Quote:
Originally posted by Diamond Jim@Nov 16 2004, 03:46 PM
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Old 11-16-2004   #15
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This is the drawback of fighting with roadside bombs, suicide bombs, sneak attack in civilian clothing, hit and run attacks, killing of civilians to show on TV etc.... the enemy simply looses any faith they have in your humanity/honor etc., and so when you are deadly wounded, without food and water for days, and reach out for the human figur infront of you, then do not be surprise if he does not grab your hand to help, but instead blows your brains. How was he to know, that you had stopped your dirty fight?

Its called karma - and its a fucking bitch.
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Old 11-16-2004   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike AI@Nov 16 2004, 03:36 PM

Maybe Dan Rather can find some forged documents....
nah, maybe he'll find some when W finds those missing WMD's....

at least Rather apologized for his error.....Bush just made excuses about his and got a bunch of American soldiers killed in the process

just because I think the war was a total mistake and Bush is getting a lot of our soldiers killed for no good reason, it doesn't mean I don't support the men and women serving over there...
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Old 11-16-2004   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by SykkBoy+Nov 16 2004, 04:05 PM-->
QUOTE (SykkBoy @ Nov 16 2004, 04:05 PM)
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Old 11-16-2004   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by SykkBoy@Nov 16 2004, 04:05 PM

just because I think the war was a total mistake and Bush is getting a lot of our soldiers killed for no good reason, it doesn't mean I don't support the men and women serving over there...

Yeah yeah yeah, we hear this all the time. We don't support the war, but we do support the troops!! Blah blah blah.... Same line that has been being used since the 60s...

See the button on the right side? Adopt a soldier.... or 5.
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Old 11-16-2004   #19
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I heard that the day before the same marine was wounded, prolly was pretty pissed to get hit and since him and everyone of them over there are on a edge right now that most of us will never know(thank them for doing it for us) he reacted, if it was indeed wrong the marines will take of it. They dont need the media or anyone doing it for them.


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Old 11-16-2004   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike AI+Nov 16 2004, 04:46 PM-->
QUOTE (Mike AI @ Nov 16 2004, 04:46 PM)
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Old 11-16-2004   #21
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Dig, are you friends with Meni?

I am interested in your opinions, not some cut & paste propaganda.

You may want to read a little more on the topic.

Bias: A CBS Insider Exposes How the Media Distort the News
by Bernard Goldberg

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/089...7621222-9436729
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Old 11-16-2004   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike AI+Nov 16 2004, 04:37 PM-->
QUOTE (Mike AI @ Nov 16 2004, 04:37 PM)
Quote:
Originally posted by SykkBoy@Nov 16 2004, 04:05 PM
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Old 11-16-2004   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike AI@Nov 16 2004, 05:04 PM
Dig, are you friends with Meni?

I am interested in your opinions, not some cut & paste propaganda.

You may want to read a little more on the topic.

Bias: A CBS Insider Exposes How the Media Distort the News
by Bernard Goldberg

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/089...7621222-9436729
then perhaps you'd be interested in pointing out some factual error in this c & p. Something that refutes his point that 90% of the talking heads in the media are conservative.

You can't. The conservatives OWN the media, it's just a right-wing echo chamber except for a few isolated spots here and there. Keep believing that the Moral Majority and the huge corporate interests are picked on underdogs though, they need that to survive and continue to perpetrate on the American public. It's important that we all know you're right.
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Old 11-16-2004   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Diamond Jim+Nov 16 2004, 03:56 PM-->
QUOTE (Diamond Jim @ Nov 16 2004, 03:56 PM)
Quote:
Originally posted by Mike AI@Nov 16 2004, 03:48 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Diamond Jim@Nov 16 2004, 03:46 PM
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Old 11-16-2004   #25
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Bush's resume as of the 2004 Election:

Political:

1 - Governor of one of the countries largest and most populous states (Not that impressive)
2 - President of these United States (Anyone can get that job).

Education:
1 - Yale (I wouldn't go even if I was accepted)
2 - Harvard (Not voted in top 10 drinking schools so I want no part of it)

Business:
1 - Oil Business (I have been there, done that).
2 - Partner that bought Rangers. (Who wants to own a mulitple million dollar professional sport team? BORING)

Life Experience - Flew Fighter Jets, parashuting, etc. (blah blah blah).
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Old 11-16-2004   #26
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Willfully ignorant, and DAMN PROUD of it.
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Old 11-16-2004   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike AI@Nov 16 2004, 04:37 PM
Iraq had WMDs, it is a fact. They used them against Iran and the Kurds.
Fact, the weapons used against the Iranians and the Kurds were sold to Iraq by the U.S., that is how we knew they had them. We were also well aware that they had destroyed them shortly after the 1991 Iraqi excursion.
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Old 11-16-2004   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike AI+Nov 16 2004, 04:46 PM-->
QUOTE (Mike AI @ Nov 16 2004, 04:46 PM)
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Old 11-16-2004   #29
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Bush's resume as of the 2004 Election:

Education:
1 - Yale (I wouldn't go even if I was accepted) - mediocre student, wouldn't have gotten in without daddy.

2 - Harvard (Not voted in top 10 drinking schools so I want no part of it) - see above

Business:
1 - Oil Business (I have been there, done that). - and failed.
2 - Partner that bought Rangers. (Who wants to own a mulitple million dollar professional sport team? BORING) - bought for him by daddy

Life Experience - Flew Fighter Jets, parashuting, etc. (blah blah blah). - to get out of going to Vietnam, although he was hawkish about sending other people over there, and couldn't even handle his NG duties.
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Old 11-16-2004   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike AI+Nov 16 2004, 04:46 PM-->
QUOTE (Mike AI @ Nov 16 2004, 04:46 PM)
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Old 11-16-2004   #31
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I forgot to include the link to the entire Harris Poll....

There were a couple of other questions that were more a matter of opinion so I left them out. I was listing the ones that have been debunked but are still believed.

http://retention.harrisblackintl.com/harri...dex.asp?PID=508
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Old 11-16-2004   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by sarettah@Nov 16 2004, 05:20 PM
I forgot to include the link to the entire Harris Poll....

There were a couple of other questions that were more a matter of opinion so I left them out. I was listing the ones that have been debunked but are still believed.

http://retention.harrisblackintl.com/harri...dex.asp?PID=508
I thought about trotting out some polls that would show ignorance of issues on the opposite side...and then realized I would be wasting my time..

Suggestion : Get over yourself and realize the truth - That there is no spoon and it is only yourself that bends...
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Old 11-16-2004   #33
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Quote:


Originally posted by Diamond Jim+Nov 16 2004, 05:41 PM-->
QUOTE (Diamond Jim @ Nov 16 2004, 05:41 PM)
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Old 11-16-2004   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by dantheman@Nov 16 2004, 04:54 PM
I heard that the day before the same marine was wounded, prolly was pretty pissed to get hit and since him and everyone of them over there are on a edge right now that most of us will never know(thank them for doing it for us) he reacted, if it was indeed wrong the marines will take of it. They dont need the media or anyone doing it for them.


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Don't wanna cause you a heart attack, Dan (or Mike) ... but I agree with you.


As for ignorance ... no lover of the Republican party am I (gasp!) ... but there are plenty of total morons to fill both parties.

One look at Jay Leno's street interviews confirms it! http://www.nbc.com/nbc/The_Tonight_Show_wi...eno/jaywalking/
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Old 11-16-2004   #35
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War Crime Caught on Tape: U.S. Marine Executes Wounded Unarmed Iraqi

"An NBC cameraman caught on tape video of a US Marine executing an unarmed and wounded Iraqi prisoner in a mosque in Fallujah. We speak with Michael Ratner, president of the Center for Constitutional Rights."

http://www.democracynow.org/article..../11/16/1611204
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Old 11-16-2004   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Robert@Nov 16 2004, 08:08 PM
We speak with Michael Ratner, president of the Center for Constitutional Rights."

Do terrorists have Constitutional rights?
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Old 11-16-2004   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike AI@Nov 16 2004, 02:56 PM
I thought for sure there would be open rebellion on Oprano claiming how the evil imperial US Marine assassinated a wounded, innocent Iraqi.....

I guess I am being too pesimistic.

Glad we are coming together!

Mike, sometimes the depth of your ignorance is almost breathtaking.

I can certainly understand why the idea that one can support the troops without supporting the lies that the idealogues who sent them there would be difficult for you to undertand. It requires an ability to think, or the actual exertion of the effort required to do so. You obviously lack one or both of the traits.

If the young man did what I saw (based on the short clip I've seen) in response to something that happened the day before, he will be dealt with by the Corps. Granted, in the great tradition of the U.S. Military, he will probably be dealt with more harshly for being stupid enough to do it around a camera ... but he probably would have been dealt with anyway. That is, after all, what makes "us" different than "them."

I am sure there will be some on the left who exhibit the same mental prowess that you have, and use the incidient to condemn the entire U.S. Military, the Marine Corps, God, Apple Pie, and Chevrolets. They will be wrong in that, of course; every bit as wrong as the people who will utlimately defend this young man if it should prove that the video is not somehow taken out of context. What I saw was undoubtedly a war crime, no matter how the fuck you cut it.

I'm quite suprised that no one else has pointed out that you followed "I am interested in your opinions, not some cut & paste propaganda" with .... a link to some cut and paste "truth" (or at least, propaganda presented in your perspective).
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Old 11-17-2004   #38
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Jeesus Mike..I was slightly to the right of Attila the Hun until this Iraq debacle..

For you to use this incident as a " bait" is seriously fucked...

The coalition must behave impeccably at all times in this conflict or there is not much justification to criticise the murderous bastards killing hostages..it sinks the coalition to their level...and if that means losing lives to do it thats the price we pay for the higher moral ground.

You aint Serge..your comments are taken more seriously..your consistency makes it pretty obvious you actually mean a lot of what you say

And that makes you a bit of dickhead...especially as you have NO real experience of either terrorism or war apart from 9/11., horrendous as it was...

Try living with it for years as we have in the UK..and even France , Spain, Italy and all the other so called weak Euro trash America hating countries you love to slag off ,crossing the road everytime you see a plastic bag on the street or on public transport.

Making a few bucks selling porn is no substitute for life experience...you need to grow up mate..

You also denigrate members here who object to war despite the fact they have actually fought for their country which really gives them a "slightly" more informed perspective..

I can only guarantee one thing..when you and Katie have kids ,and i wish you all the best..your attitude will change..maybe a little..probably completely...but it will change
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