Customs Officials Seize $774K in ‘Hazardous Massage Devices’

[EmporerEJ]

Interesting little story about cheap Chinese Knock-offs:

http://business.avn.com/articles/Cus....html#comments

And that's why you should always look for the "Made in USA" label.

(especially in our industry, where 97%+ product is made in china.)

[softball]

or perhaps the EU or Canada or other countries that have similar or more stringent standards.

[EmporerEJ]

I would not presume to endorse any other country I didn't have direct knowledge of.
I do like Canadian White bread. (They don't have American Cheese though, so i wouldn't survive long.)
Not sure what else is manufactured there.........they do have one good circuit board company....

[RawAlex]

It sort of pays to read the whole story. The sexual devices themselves were not defective, only the "wall wart" power supplies they were using. There is no indication that the maker of the sexual toys was also the maker of the power supplies. Judging from what I have seen in China, the power supplies would have been purchased from a third party company, likely sold with the assurances of the UL label (which was faked).

So it could have been "Sex toys" or "computer speakers" or "electric shavers". It doesn't have much to do with sex toys, except perhaps that they got an extra look by the perverts at customs looking for a thrill.

[softball]

I don't eat much white bread or American cheese. But if you drive a car, there is a good chance it is made in Canada and the gas to fill it comes from Canada. If you watch tv or go to the movies, again a high chance it is made in Canada.
But then again, the USA did give us KFC, Burger King, and the K cars and Donny Osmond.
But to be fair, we got our revenge and you now have to suffer with Jusin Bieber.

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

It sort of pays to read the whole story. The sexual devices themselves were not defective, only the "wall wart" power supplies they were using. There is no indication that the maker of the sexual toys was also the maker of the power supplies. Judging from what I have seen in China, the power supplies would have been purchased from a third party company, likely sold with the assurances of the UL label (which was faked).

So it could have been "Sex toys" or "computer speakers" or "electric shavers". It doesn't have much to do with sex toys, except perhaps that they got an extra look by the perverts at customs looking for a thrill.

Yes, I read "the whole story." And here's my thoughts on that......
we're talking about an electrical shock device. Anytime you have a "wall wart" powering any type of "sex toy," you have the potential for lethal levels of voltage shooting through the toy. And, unlike batteries, there's "no theoretical limit" to the amount of current that can spike through the product, and through your body. This is bad enough with a dildo, but with a product handling voltage from the source supply, and in some manner, directly interacting with your body? Then Yes the "wall wort" is an integral component to this system. Any company that would allow an untested, and fraudulent device to be packaged with their product is criminally negligent. period.

The dirty little secret in the adult industry "sex toy" biz, from an engineering standpoint, is, they use batteries with their product for more than simplicity. The designs are usually so poor and inefficient that they use the batteries as a "poor man's current limiter" in the circuit. A really good rule of thumb is, the larger the battery size? the poorer the quality of the engineering.

ie: a vibrator using button cells, or "AAA" cells is probably made better than a dildo using "C" or "D" cells.

(Our "Made in USA" product, which was engineered here, built here, and shipped from here, has -zero- cases of any kind of this damage, and -zero- cases of liability, in the more than a decade history of the product.)

Why? Because it's properly engineered to insulate the user from any chance of lethal voltage exposure.
(we also carry UL and international stamps on our power supply....including Canada, for you Canadians... :-)

"fried wiener" is a bad thing!

[RawAlex]

EJ, there is only one problem with your logic: You are assuming that the sex toy company wasn't also duped by people making "UL approved" wall warts that are not approved.

I was in Shenzhen Electronic mart a few times, and on each floor there is a company that makes stickers, holographs, and other "official" things for products. I got to watch a guy take some reasonable cheap looking memory sticks and apply both the info logo and "official" holograph from Kingston to the RAM sticks, turning them into a premium product.

So assuming that the sex toy company was aware is a big jump, at this point all we know is that the power supply company screwed everyone.

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

EJ, there is only one problem with your logic: You are assuming that the sex toy company wasn't also duped by people making "UL approved" wall warts that are not approved.

I was in Shenzhen Electronic mart a few times, and on each floor there is a company that makes stickers, holographs, and other "official" things for products. I got to watch a guy take some reasonable cheap looking memory sticks and apply both the info logo and "official" holograph from Kingston to the RAM sticks, turning them into a premium product.

So assuming that the sex toy company was aware is a big jump, at this point all we know is that the power supply company screwed everyone.

You missed the "criminally negligent" part of my accusation.
I treat anything from China as suspicious. And before I put My name, reputation, and potential liability behind a product, we test it here. There's also a much easier way to find out. Check with underwriter's laboratories. It only takes a phone call.

These electro-shock toys are extremely scary, from a liability standpoint. I think I'd check every possible aspect of that, and keep checking.
For what happened to have happened, there's only 2 choices....either they were in on it, or they were criminally negligent. It's that simple.

Topco, who has most of their products made in China, decided the best, safest thing to do was to own the Chinese Manufacturer they get their product from. Not only does that endear them to the government, and give them benefits here, it allows them to more closely monitor their quality control. This should not, however, be misconstrued to be an endorsement of their products.

[softball]

Wanna see what you can buy from China? Check out some of the prices.
http://www.made-in-china.com/

[EmporerEJ]

I really like the LED products that are now being produced en-mass. I'm currently using many of them, taking power usage from situations like, 4-65 watt down spots, equaling 260 watts, down to about 12 watts, for the same light, and next to zero heat.

Unfortunately, these are almost exclusively made in China. When a government exploits its people in this manner, the result is cheap, cheap goods.
The Chinese ethos is more about continuous work, and not so much about price.

The result? Some thing can't be competitively made in countries where worker's rights are paramount.

Not sure how to fix that, and I'm not alone.

[softball]

Originally Posted by EmporerEJ

I really like the LED products that are now being produced en-mass. I'm currently using many of them, taking power usage from situations like, 4-65 watt down spots, equaling 260 watts, down to about 12 watts, for the same light, and next to zero heat.

Unfortunately, these are almost exclusively made in China. When a government exploits its people in this manner, the result is cheap, cheap goods.
The Chinese ethos is more about continuous work, and not so much about price.

The result? Some thing can't be competitively made in countries where worker's rights are paramount.

Not sure how to fix that, and I'm not alone.

I am about to purchase an item that I will be marketing soon. I am trying to get it made in Canada or I would settle for the United States, but I can purchase 5000 said items f.o.b. Ningbo for 21.2721 cents each. They are not electrical and I am having trouble getting any where close to that price here. What to do?

[RawAlex]

Originally Posted by EmporerEJ

I really like the LED products that are now being produced en-mass. I'm currently using many of them, taking power usage from situations like, 4-65 watt down spots, equaling 260 watts, down to about 12 watts, for the same light, and next to zero heat.

Unfortunately, these are almost exclusively made in China. When a government exploits its people in this manner, the result is cheap, cheap goods.
The Chinese ethos is more about continuous work, and not so much about price.

The result? Some thing can't be competitively made in countries where worker's rights are paramount.

Not sure how to fix that, and I'm not alone.

All I can say is that you need to spend a little time in China. There is little about the government exploiting anyone. it is all about bottom line business, good old American style free enterprise, free of almost all government oversight.

You must lead a very suspicious life, considering almost everything you deal with on a daily basis has some component or some tie to Chinese manufacturing, including your penis pump toy.

[softball]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

All I can say is that you need to spend a little time in China. There is little about the government exploiting anyone. it is all about bottom line business, good old American style free enterprise, free of almost all government oversight.

You must lead a very suspicious life, considering almost everything you deal with on a daily basis has some component or some tie to Chinese manufacturing, including your penis pump toy.

In fact it is totally unregulated free enterprise which is very hard to compete against. In fact if America was totally free enterprise, then slavery would be big business. So, in this case, I don't think Emp is suspicious but pragmatic. The Chinese business model pollutes the environment, abuses people, and is a step back in time and they are leading us down that plug hole because of our greed. And the problem is,

everything you deal with on a daily basis has some component or some tie to Chinese manufacturing,

including bogus food products buried in our supermarket shelves.

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

All I can say is that you need to spend a little time in China. There is little about the government exploiting anyone. it is all about bottom line business, good old American style free enterprise, free of almost all government oversight.

You must lead a very suspicious life, considering almost everything you deal with on a daily basis has some component or some tie to Chinese manufacturing, including your penis pump toy.

Hong Kong, or China? There is a difference. And yes, it is hard fo almost any manufacturer to have some kind of tie to china. They have effectively eliminated some industries from the USA. Like Stamped and magnesium cast gears, which we do buy from a Chinese supplier. But ONLY because they CAN'T be bought here. Motors from Japan. (Better quality.--also can't get them here.) But pretty much everything else is made right here in North America. (The plastic black acrylic tubing is sometimes made in a Canadian Plant, by an American Company. But it is also made in the USA, so we have no control over which stock we get-we have requested "made in USA" when available.) The rest of the tubing/pipe is all made in USA. The sheet plastic, electronics case, made in USA. (case end panels, made in our facility as well) Labels, packaging, lubes, cleaner? .....yep, you betcha....Made in USA.

As for the rest of our sexual simulation system, is completely assembled, and manufactured HERE, in the USA. And it all carries a "made in USA" label.
(Actually, it says "Proudly manufactured in the United States of America." (except the circuit boards, which are also 100% assembled here...they say "made in USA" because that's all that would fit.

Hell, even the rivets are made in USA.

(And it will always be that way.)

[andreajmata]

When it comes to a tangible retail product, it's going to be about the price. When someone else finds a way to reproduce your product for less money by leaving off the made in the USA label, what will you do?

[softball]

Originally Posted by andreajmata

When it comes to a tangible retail product, it's going to be about the price. When someone else finds a way to reproduce your product for less money by leaving off the made in the USA label, what will you do?

They already tried that in Prague, Hungary, Russia,....but white girls are in very short supply in Asia.l

[andreajmata]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

They already tried that in Prague, Hungary, Russia,....but white girls are in very short supply in Asia.l

LOL I suppose I should have quoted the Emperor.

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by andreajmata

When it comes to a tangible retail product, it's going to be about the price. When someone else finds a way to reproduce your product for less money by leaving off the made in the USA label, what will you do?

Well, after 10 years, we're doing just fine. I think we'll just keep make'em here, and worry about the problems as they present themselves, ok?
But thanks for your concern.

What I think you guys should worry about is how you are gonna make money selling pictures and videos, when the whole world is giving it away.

About the only way I see to success, is to have a value added service that can't be duplicated easily.

[softball]

Originally Posted by EmporerEJ

Well, after 10 years, we're doing just fine. I think we'll just keep make'em here, and worry about the problems as they present themselves, ok?
But thanks for your concern.

What I think you guys should worry about is how you are gonna make money selling pictures and videos, when the whole world is giving it away.

About the only way I see to success, is to have a value added service that can't be duplicated easily.

so emp...just to steer this sideways a little, where do you buy your devices. I have never seen them for sale or have ever heard of anyone using them. I am really not trying to be rancorous just curious.

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

so emp...just to steer this sideways a little, where do you buy your devices. I have never seen them for sale or have ever heard of anyone using them. I am really not trying to be rancorous just curious.

The "device" is ordered exclusively through our website, and a few select dealers. Most of our customers are "mature" men, and I'm thinking they're not big on advertising their use. We market it more as a sexual dysfunction tool.

The retail model, which in the adult industry is from 200-1,000% or more just doesn't work for a product like ours. So we've never sold it "retail." Although my background is bricks & mortar stores, this is just not a good fit for that. We have no immediate plans to market it that way either.

[JosefMiller]

Interesting little story about cheap Chinese Knock-offs:

[RawAlex]

Originally Posted by EmporerEJ

Hong Kong, or China? There is a difference. And yes, it is hard fo almost any manufacturer to have some kind of tie to china. They have effectively eliminated some industries from the USA. Like Stamped and magnesium cast gears, which we do buy from a Chinese supplier. But ONLY because they CAN'T be bought here. Motors from Japan. (Better quality.--also can't get them here.) But pretty much everything else is made right here in North America. (The plastic black acrylic tubing is sometimes made in a Canadian Plant, by an American Company. But it is also made in the USA, so we have no control over which stock we get-we have requested "made in USA" when available.) The rest of the tubing/pipe is all made in USA. The sheet plastic, electronics case, made in USA. (case end panels, made in our facility as well) Labels, packaging, lubes, cleaner? .....yep, you betcha....Made in USA.

As for the rest of our sexual simulation system, is completely assembled, and manufactured HERE, in the USA. And it all carries a "made in USA" label.
(Actually, it says "Proudly manufactured in the United States of America." (except the circuit boards, which are also 100% assembled here...they say "made in USA" because that's all that would fit.

Hell, even the rivets are made in USA.

(And it will always be that way.)

Hong Kong and China. In the last 4 years, I have visited both on multple occasions, and spent extended time in mainland China itself (not in the touristy areas either). China is an incredible wild capitalism gone wild experiment, the streets are packed with people selling anything and everything, companies all over the place, huge stores, malls, commercial streets that go as far as the eye can see. Condos and houses being built as fast as possible, and people investing in everything from housing, to cars, to big screen TVs. Business crop up all the time to install TVs, wash cars, and so on. All the trappings of capitalism, right there in the middle of "red" China.

Hong Kong is actually slow compared to China.

Your Japanese motors, by the way, probably use parts made in China. Japan actually doesn't have enough physical space for many of it's industries, so the motors are likely assembled from wire and magnets made in China. Often, things like thin sheet steel used for cases are actually made in China and sold in the US by US companies, similar to plastic pellets, which are often made in china and then exported in bulk to plastic factories in the US and Canada.

Made in the US essentially means Assembled in the US from part made all over the world. The people making power supplies may put the in the plastic box in the US, but the parts are made in China (or Indonesia, or Thailand - many of your hard drives and condoms come from Thailand these days).

It isn't the 60s anymore, it's a worldwide supply chain, and you can never be certain where your raw materials come from.

Perhaps you could expand your horizons a bit and spend some time in Asia. It might cure you of the "American is the best" thing that is causing you problems.

[DannyCox]

When I think of quality products, one of the last thing I do think of for that is "Made in the USA". Higher end products from Asia tend to have much more rigorous quality control than anything made in the US. Everyone loves to point at "Cheap Chinese Knock-Offs", and yes, there is some of that. But much of what they do produce is of very high quality, and one of the reasons (other than just cost) that US manufacturers move much of their production that way. The North American worker has gotten lazy and feels overly entitled. They just haven't cared in years.

[softball]

Half of the ferry workers in British Columbia make over $75,000.00 a year. And some of them direct traffic and some flip eggs. That is a huge problem for economic development. They are just not worth it.

Perhaps you could expand your horizons a bit and spend some time in Asia

And what will that accomplish in this discussion. Will touring the sweatshops where they make North Face packs and luggage for peanuts and live stacked up in shanties change opinions? Huge office towers built with cheap labor and no real building code so they collapse easily is progress? Its kind of bullshit capitalism. Like I said if we legalized slavery, we could compete as well.
What Alex is suggesting is that we adopt that Chinese/Asian model to compete. Roll out the ships, chains, and manacles and lets get down to competitive business on an equal playing field.
Somewhere in between lies the solution. But on a bigger scale, and I said this years ago on this board perhaps, the Chinese are sucking us into a new kind of warfare. Economic warfare and the Alex solution is exactly what they want to hear.

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Made in the US essentially means Assembled in the US from part made all over the world. The people making power supplies may put the in the plastic box in the US, but the parts are made in China (or Indonesia, or Thailand - many of your hard drives and condoms come from Thailand these days).

.

It means a bit more than that. It also means we stand behind it. We're here, and if it goes wrong, you can haul my ass in to an American court. (I choose this example so your "expanded asian mind" can understand it.)

That's not the case for "made in China."
For many reasons (including the liability one, and many you wouldn't understand,) that's why "made in USA" means something more. When my name is on the package, I've got to believe in it. And it has to match my level of quality. You can make all the jokes you want, but it's my creation, and it will be made with quality and reliability. Or it won't be made.
It's really that simple to me.

And yes, your sheet metal example goes beyond even your limited example......
Not only is the metal made in China, but we make the raw materials, ship them to china, (at great expense,) china refines them, creates the sheet metal, ships it back, (again, the expense,) and sells it back to use at a cheaper price than we can produce it here.

There's no question it's a Flat Earth, and we're on the back side. But in this one spot, I've got my finger, firmly stuck in the dike.
I don't have it stuck in my own ass, and wondering where the pain is coming from.

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by DannyCox

When I think of quality products, one of the last thing I do think of for that is "Made in the USA". Higher end products from Asia tend to have much more rigorous quality control than anything made in the US. Everyone loves to point at "Cheap Chinese Knock-Offs", and yes, there is some of that. But much of what they do produce is of very high quality, and one of the reasons (other than just cost) that US manufacturers move much of their production that way. The North American worker has gotten lazy and feels overly entitled. They just haven't cared in years.

That's unfair, and untrue in a broad sense. We're still the leaders in innovation, and new developments. By a VERY long shot. It's very easy to follow the path, and trim the edges, when someone else has already blazed the trail.

Yes, they've gotten, "lazy" for lack of a better term. But they said that just before WWII.

Let's see what happens when the Chinese government stops cracking the whip on the backs of their people. Tell me, what's really changed there, since "the Good Earth?"