Content Producers / Programs - A serious question

[RawAlex]

Considering that it is very easy to find links to your content on torrent sites, and considering those torrent sites are listed on Google, why do you not actively submit DMCAs to Google to get this practice stopped?

It's a serious question, as I am thinking what it would cost to have someone write up DMCAs a couple of days a week and send them off, versus the costs of having them be a board whore or whatever. Wouldn't you make more money if a significantly higher amount of the people searching for your product actually ended up either at your site directly or going to an affiliate that is promoting you?

Discuss.

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Considering that it is very easy to find links to your content on torrent sites, and considering those torrent sites are listed on Google, why do you not actively submit DMCAs to Google to get this practice stopped?

It's a serious question, as I am thinking what it would cost to have someone write up DMCAs a couple of days a week and send them off, versus the costs of having them be a board whore or whatever. Wouldn't you make more money if a significantly higher amount of the people searching for your product actually ended up either at your site directly or going to an affiliate that is promoting you?

Discuss.

By and large people dont hunt torrents using google. They use the big torrent sites instead. You dont need google, in fact google just slows you down.

So do you DMCA the host of the torrent site itself? You can try. But most are hosted offshore. And guess what? He's not actually hosting your content. These guys are just hosting the torrent itself which is nothing more than a pointer file. The users seeding the torrent are the ones actually hosting it, and that's usually a few hundred people scattered around the world.

Very tough to fight, and again goes to what I was saying, you're going to spend a whole lot of effort and realize very little monetary gain from it.

There are a couple of techniques to fight 'em:

1) annoy the shit out of them. lots of lawyer letters, emails, phone calls, nasty grams to their hosts, their advertisers, etc. you wont get them shutdown, but if you annoy them enough they may blacklist your stuff just to get you off their dick.

2) fire with fire..push your own torrents and just give them trailers. copy the filenames that are being shared of the real deal.

My rule of thumb though is torrent and usenet users fall into that category of "do not pay for porn". Lost cause, not worth spending effort on. Your true target audience wont figure out how to use either.

[tony404]

i use removeyourcontent once a quarter and they hit this one forum with so many dmca's.they put on the front of their site if you put up mandy blake content you will be banned for life.

[RawAlex]

HP - you are missing the point.

Joe Surfer, an average guy who doesn't really know much about the internet. However, my friend Bob Surfguy told me about this hotty called Savannah on cumfiesta that takes a huge load of goo, and she looks like the girl in the next office. Well, so , Joe goes to google, and types in cumfiesta savannah.

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&sa...G=Search&meta=

4 out of the top 10 searches go to torrent sites. Now Joe might click any one of those 10 looking for the content. There is a 40% chance that this is the day that Joe learns how easy it is to download a torrent file. At that point, Joe is no longer a potential porn client, he is down a guy with utorrent on his computer downloading pr0n like all the other cool people.

Worse chance he tries one of those direct download sites, which use porn sites like megadownload pass to charge $5 to start and $35 a month after plus cross sales a couple more things (thanks platinumbucks!), so not only does the guy learn about torrents, but he gets his credit card fucked over too. Classic.

If Nastydollars (just this example, not picking on them) were to DMCA google on a regular basis to get rid of those torrent listings, more traffic would flow to them, and they would make more money. It isn't about stopping experienced downloaders, they won't pay for porn anymore anyway. It's about not corrupting SE traffic and turning them into freeloaders.

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

HP - you are missing the point.

Joe Surfer, an average guy who doesn't really know much about the internet. However, my friend Bob Surfguy told me about this hotty called Savannah on cumfiesta that takes a huge load of goo, and she looks like the girl in the next office. Well, so , Joe goes to google, and types in cumfiesta savannah.

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&sa...G=Search&meta=

4 out of the top 10 searches go to torrent sites. Now Joe might click any one of those 10 looking for the content. There is a 40% chance that this is the day that Joe learns how easy it is to download a torrent file. At that point, Joe is no longer a potential porn client, he is down a guy with utorrent on his computer downloading pr0n like all the other cool people.

Worse chance he tries one of those direct download sites, which use porn sites like megadownload pass to charge $5 to start and $35 a month after plus cross sales a couple more things (thanks platinumbucks!), so not only does the guy learn about torrents, but he gets his credit card fucked over too. Classic.

If Nastydollars (just this example, not picking on them) were to DMCA google on a regular basis to get rid of those torrent listings, more traffic would flow to them, and they would make more money. It isn't about stopping experienced downloaders, they won't pay for porn anymore anyway. It's about not corrupting SE traffic and turning them into freeloaders.

ok, i see your point.

i'm not sure dmca applies, i've never tried one on that angle since again they aren't really hosting anything with a copyright. but it would be nice to see google punish those results a bit.

i still dont think that's a huge impact to the market because torrents and usenet are not that easy to figure out for the average joe on the street. even if you are wise enough to google for how to's all of the file conversions, codecs, etc will scare off non-geeks.

and imo opinion if a true geek doesn't wanna pay for your stuff, he wont, and he will obtain it for free if he so desires.

[RawAlex]

Here is a simple example:

http://chillingeffects.org/dmca512/n...i?NoticeID=630

I am thinking that it is important not to teach people that there is another way to get the content (a free way).

I also see that potentially a couple of companies in adult are profiting from these torrent results by offering "direct download" systems, which require signup to program sites (which in turn cross sell the shit out of the guy). That would seem to be an even more direct issue that I can't imagine anyone standing still for.

[Paul Markham]

If you think it's useful for content owners here's the plan to adopt.

Select 20 such content types as you have listed for Cum Fiesta. Search for them and get all the links on Google, Yahoo and a few of the other top search engines. Then copy and edit a legal and full DMCA and mail it to the content owner for him to mail to the list of search engines you give him.

Then sit back and watch the results. If it works start your own service offering this to content owners, who if it works would jump at your offer or will start doing it theirselves.

As you point out it is not a lot of work, the links will be on the SEs, the letter you need to write is there on the Chilling Effects site and you seem well versed in it already. Plus it could be a new income stream for you if it works as well as you say it will.

If you don't think it's such a good idea for you to get the ball rolling why do you think content owners will think it is?

And don't hide behind "It's not my job to protect their content." You made the suggestion in another post and started this thread.

[RawAlex]

Paul, there is no benefit for me to do it.

If I am really lucky, my SE traffic as a result will increase by a very few hits. But the programs would benefit greatly. Not only is it not my job to protect their content, it isn't my business. Further, I don't know what deals they may or may not have with any given site at any given time, which would make the work invalid.

Remember, an invalid DMCA (crying wolf) is a violation and actionable.

If a program wanted me to do the work for them, well, that would be something to discuss. But randomly doing it for programs that may in fact have based their business model on leak down torrent traffic, well, I wouldn't exactly be helping anyone.

The real cost to do this for most programs would be lower in a year than skinning GFY for a week, and they would make more money back, I suspect!

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Paul, there is no benefit for me to do it.

If I am really lucky, my SE traffic as a result will increase by a very few hits. But the programs would benefit greatly. Not only is it not my job to protect their content, it isn't my business. Further, I don't know what deals they may or may not have with any given site at any given time, which would make the work invalid.

Remember, an invalid DMCA (crying wolf) is a violation and actionable.

If a program wanted me to do the work for them, well, that would be something to discuss. But randomly doing it for programs that may in fact have based their business model on leak down torrent traffic, well, I wouldn't exactly be helping anyone.

The real cost to do this for most programs would be lower in a year than skinning GFY for a week, and they would make more money back, I suspect!

You send the email to the content owner for them to decide if they want to proceed. If it works as well as you think it will you start to charge for the service. You have to show your belief in it first. Plus it would bring down the benefits of piracy.

The boards are a great place for people to tell other people what to do. And do nothing themselves.

[RawAlex]

Paul, why would i do all the work for nothing? What happens if they have given rights to all these people? I send it to them, then they have to do the work again to check each one... don't be stupid.

here, let me help you. Let me give you 10 you can do yourself. Want to start something? Here:

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&sa...G=Search&meta=

There is 10 great examples, 10 great links you can ask Google to remove. So now, do you have the balls or are you all just bitching and whining?

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Paul, why would i do all the work for nothing? What happens if they have given rights to all these people? I send it to them, then they have to do the work again to check each one... don't be stupid.

here, let me help you. Let me give you 10 you can do yourself. Want to start something? Here:

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&sa...G=Search&meta=

There is 10 great examples, 10 great links you can ask Google to remove. So now, do you have the balls or are you all just bitching and whining?

You don't read what I post. Go back and read it again.

Thanks for the links, will try it out and see what happens. Yes I do have the balls. Just not always the time.

Read my post, it's about you turning this into a revenue stream. Or someone else. I will report back on the effectiveness.

[RawAlex]

Paul, I read it closely - the problem is so many of the companies in the online business are corrupt in one fashion or another, it is hard to tell who is getting ripped off and who is just more than happy to whore out their content anywhere as long as there is a url on the videos. One very large program made that very clear to me, which is why I don't promote them.

Let us know how it goes, the results should be interesting. Heck, maybe you will blaze a new trail for content producers everywhere.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Paul, I read it closely - the problem is so many of the companies in the online business are corrupt in one fashion or another, it is hard to tell who is getting ripped off and who is just more than happy to whore out their content anywhere as long as there is a url on the videos. One very large program made that very clear to me, which is why I don't promote them.

Let us know how it goes, the results should be interesting. Heck, maybe you will blaze a new trail for content producers everywhere.

And you just hit on the problem of making traffic your king. Some companies will do anything to get it and it's the only way they know how to sell anything. Tubes are the best example of them. Ever Youtube.

Will get onto it in a day or two www.astral-blue.com has now been approved by CCBILL and got to get that running.

[RawAlex]

A program that protects it's content as best it can and works with it's affiliates in their common best interest is likely to keep more affiliates and make more money. A program that allows their content to get ripped, distributed, and abused with the hope of getting a couple of free clicks pretty much lower the value of thier sites. It's a harder sale at that point.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

A program that protects it's content as best it can and works with it's affiliates in their common best interest is likely to keep more affiliates and make more money. A program that allows their content to get ripped, distributed, and abused with the hope of getting a couple of free clicks pretty much lower the value of thier sites. It's a harder sale at that point.

The problem is most content is not worth protecting. If your content is unique and special you have to protect it. Today most content is not and it's just more filler content produced for a price. The programs at this end of the spectrum see sign ups from stolen content as free traffic.