TGP discussion

[softball]

OK, here is a scenario....ya get on a tgp and click a thumbnail for a blonde babe in boots. You wait....and wait and then finally the page loads and it is another tgp. But damn you really wanna see this blonde babe in boots. So back to the tgp and you click her pic again. You go for a smoke, come back, and its a top list of ugly girls in boots. But you are a patient man, so you close the ugly top list and try again. This time you click the pic of the blonde girl in boots, spark up a doob, and return and there it is. The girl of your dreams.....finally.
Now I remember when tgp's were fast and big competition. Now, if you want something fast....click on a tube site and you get what you want, when you want it.
So, as a content guy, these slow tgp's kinda make it good for me, because when people join any of my sites, its a fast world and instant gratification is easy. Ergo, worth the money.
Most of the tube site I have seen, fast as they are, don't have a big variety of content and they recycle tons with different tags. Sometimes just a pain in the ass. Also good for content sites.
My question is why does all of this happen? Are tgp's using crummy slow bandwidth or are these rotator programmes turning them into molasses? What is the point in moving me around from tgp to toplist to wherever when there is a pretty good possibility I am interested in that very blonde in her sexy boots. So why drive me off to some other toplist? I am already here. Could someone enlighten me on this?

[RawAlex]

Circle Jerking in my mind has never been the best way to sell a product. However, there are certain webmasters out there who swear by it. Pissing people off until they finally buy something seems like a bit of a weird business model, but apparently it does work to some extent.

I do think you are correct though: The more you circle jerk someone around, the more they are going to look to other sources to get what they are looking for. I also think it is only a matter of time before tube style sites refine their methods and start doing a better job of herding the surfers towards purchases rather than free pleasure.

The current tube business model for the most part is "show a ton of ads with the videos, and hope like hell someone clicks on something". I truly doubt that many direct sales are made from the clips to the sites in question, especially on sites showing longer clips. After all, if a surfer can get 5 clips of 5 minutes each of the content he wants, he will likely be reaching for the kleenex box before he is reaching for his wallet. In my mind, tube sites have taken a business model of 50% plus profit and turned it into a 5% profit business overnight.

In the long run, tube style sites will refine their processes and work to move the surfer towards a purchase. Already, the bigger sites limit the number of videos per day, interlace the videos with clickable ads, overlays, and other promo material... but until a workable solution is found that makes these sites push towards sales, they will be huge volume / low sales systems entirely dependant on third party ad sales to try to make a living.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Circle Jerking in my mind has never been the best way to sell a product. However, there are certain webmasters out there who swear by it. Pissing people off until they finally buy something seems like a bit of a weird business model, but apparently it does work to some extent.

I do think you are correct though: The more you circle jerk someone around, the more they are going to look to other sources to get what they are looking for. I also think it is only a matter of time before tube style sites refine their methods and start doing a better job of herding the surfers towards purchases rather than free pleasure.

The current tube business model for the most part is "show a ton of ads with the videos, and hope like hell someone clicks on something". I truly doubt that many direct sales are made from the clips to the sites in question, especially on sites showing longer clips. After all, if a surfer can get 5 clips of 5 minutes each of the content he wants, he will likely be reaching for the kleenex box before he is reaching for his wallet. In my mind, tube sites have taken a business model of 50% plus profit and turned it into a 5% profit business overnight.

In the long run, tube style sites will refine their processes and work to move the surfer towards a purchase. Already, the bigger sites limit the number of videos per day, interlace the videos with clickable ads, overlays, and other promo material... but until a workable solution is found that makes these sites push towards sales, they will be huge volume / low sales systems entirely dependant on third party ad sales to try to make a living.

The correct tube business model is to upsale them the very clip they are watching as a PPV or Download to own right then and there.

The rest of the ads are there as parsley.

I think the allure of massive traffic has driven people to lie cheat and steal in order to populate those sites.

Mark my words - when its all said and done and the Fat Lady sings... one will remain.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

...My question is why does all of this happen? Are tgp's using crummy slow bandwidth or are these rotator programmes turning them into molasses? What is the point in moving me around from tgp to toplist to wherever when there is a pretty good possibility I am interested in that very blonde in her sexy boots. So why drive me off to some other toplist? I am already here. Could someone enlighten me on this?

TGP's should be fast. The scripts don't require that much server load. The difference a fast loading site makes in conversions is more than enough to pay the difference for better hosting. This is why I'm looking to change hosts soon. Performance at my current host has declined considerably over the last year.

As for skimming to trades, it has become an almost necessary evil. I'd love to have a 50K/day no-skim fetish TGP, but it's just not going to happen without an existing well established network of sites with relevant niche traffic to feed it. It's very difficult to grow a non-skim TGP these days. In the narrow niche arena it's almost impossible. You have to strike a balance with the skim, don't skim so much that surfers get annoyed, but skim enough to keep your trade partners sending traffic back to you.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by Toby

TGP's should be fast. The scripts don't require that much server load. The difference a fast loading site makes in conversions is more than enough to pay the difference for better hosting. This is why I'm looking to change hosts soon. Performance at my current host has declined considerably over the last year.

As for skimming to trades, it has become an almost necessary evil. I'd love to have a 50K/day no-skim fetish TGP, but it's just not going to happen without an existing well established network of sites with relevant niche traffic to feed it. It's very difficult to grow a non-skim TGP these days. In the narrow niche arena it's almost impossible. You have to strike a balance with the skim, don't skim so much that surfers get annoyed, but skim enough to keep your trade partners sending traffic back to you.

When I was running skimmed TGPs 5% skim is too much was my rule. Id be interested in seeing others current skim levels.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by gonzo

When I was running skimmed TGPs 5% skim is too much was my rule. Id be interested in seeing others current skim levels.

The average these days is 30% to 40% skim to trades, which I think is too much. I try to keep mine under 25%, plus I don't skim from the first few gallery clicks.

The higher the productivity of your incoming traffic the lower the skim percentage needed to maintain and grow your trades. Lots of debate about how best to do that, but like anything else it usually comes down to having what the surfer is looking for. I spend more time looking for fresh niche promo galleries to list than I do any other single task.

[softball]

so the higher the skim (traffic redirects i am assuming) the less successful the tgp is. That is interesting.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

so the higher the skim (traffic redirects i am assuming) the less successful the tgp is. That is interesting.

That's a huge over simplification, but if you equate the level of success to the volume of productive traffic, then you are essentially correct.

If you have enough productive traffic then you don't need to skim at all.

[RawAlex]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

so the higher the skim (traffic redirects i am assuming) the less successful the tgp is. That is interesting.

Not entirely. it isn't a straight drop off, for various reasons.

Example, if you are running a higher skim, but trading with sites that have lower skim and better traffic, you are often sending out worn traffic for less worn traffic, so your higher skim might in fact be improving your sales.

You can also have incredibly high skim rates (as high as 100%) providing you don't skim the first few clicks. Many TGPs using traffic systems such as chokers deal will allow the first couple of clicks to hit galleries, but every click after 4 goes to pay per click traffic. In many cases, you make more money that way than trying to sell them something.

Gonzo, I agree that the business model of tubes SHOULD be play a sample and upsell out of the sample to the real thing, but very few (if any) sites really do that. Most sites have player pages packed full of other programs, other clips, clickoffs, dating sites, and 101 other ways to turn a little bit of income to help pay for the process. I too am thinking that many of the current tube sites will disappear pretty rapidly, especially if their sales ratios drop too much lower. Considering that some people have been complaining that AFF sales are down (they are apparently buying a ton of traffic from somewhere and dilluting things pretty bad), it might be that many of these tube sites have already lost their true income.

The easiest sales proposition is free. The hardest one to make money from is free.

[2MuchMark]

<<=== Never relied on TGP's, never will.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by 2MuchMark

<<=== Never relied on TGP's, never will.

And I don't promote live cam sites, so we'll call it even.

[gonzo]

I still own several TGPs. I got disgusted with Comus and moved all of them over to Remote Thumbs and went into the set em and forget em mode.

Unfortunatly thats not the right way to use them but its all I have time for right now.

[2MuchMark]

Originally Posted by Toby

And I don't promote live cam sites, so we'll call it even.

I know.

[Rcourt64]

Originally Posted by Toby

And I don't promote live cam sites, so we'll call it even.

CHA-CHING !!!...

[Nymph]

I have a couple real tgp sites where I take subits from webmasters, and a couple that I only run sponsor galleries on. I do not do the circle jerk thing. I still get decent traffic, and sales.

Sometimes I think we need to put ourselves in the shoes of the surfer. If I'm getting jerked around from site to site, and never really getting what I wanted in the first place, I'm gonna move on and try to find some place that I can get what I want.

Call it old fashioned, old school, or just stupid, but that's the way I run my sites.

[softball]

Originally Posted by Nymph

I have a couple real tgp sites where I take subits from webmasters, and a couple that I only run sponsor galleries on. I do not do the circle jerk thing. I still get decent traffic, and sales.

Sometimes I think we need to put ourselves in the shoes of the surfer. If I'm getting jerked around from site to site, and never really getting what I wanted in the first place, I'm gonna move on and try to find some place that I can get what I want.

Call it old fashioned, old school, or just stupid, but that's the way I run my sites.

That makes sense to me, but I don't know much about tgp and traffic manipulation. But I still think its good for a business like mine where there are no blind links, heavy upsells, cj's or the like. I think it is good for retention, which, if you have a paysite, is everything.

[Nymph]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

That makes sense to me, but I don't know much about tgp and traffic manipulation. But I still think its good for a business like mine where there are no blind links, heavy upsells, cj's or the like. I think it is good for retention, which, if you have a paysite, is everything.

I agree. Many moons ago I ran a paysite, and I never jerked my members around. The only advertising I did in mine was to a toy store, and I had a few links to my free stuff. I had member retention for some of my guys for the life of the site (10 years).

The jerking around that some of the other sites are doing is only going to benefit you in the long run

[bluemoney]

My humble TGP does not skim at all, it does okay for me. I never liked to be jerked around as a surfer myself. However if Nymph wanted to jerk me I think I would make an exception.

PS. I’m always looking for a few more TGP’s to submit to, hint, Nymph, hint hint

[Nymph]

Originally Posted by bluemoney

My humble TGP does not skim at all, it does okay for me. I never liked to be jerked around as a surfer myself. However if Nymph wanted to jerk me I think I would make an exception.

PS. I’m always looking for a few more TGP’s to submit to, hint, Nymph, hint hint

Oh darlin'..sometimes you just make me breathless....you know I would never jerk you in a bad way sweetie, it would be all good

You want to submit to me? you really want to submit to me?

I'll send you a PM, and let you know just what I need