Ray Guhn Case to Depend on Community Standards

[gonzo]

ESCAMBIA COUNTY, Fla. - Circuit Court Judge Ron Swanson ruled Tuesday that the community standards of a four-county area will be used in determining whether videos Ray Guhn produced are obscene.

While Swanson rejected the grounds for the case's dismissal, which were brought by Guhn's attorney Larry Walters, the judge granted Walters' request that jurors use the community standards of Escambia, Santa Rosa, Okaloosa and Walton counties, instead of those of only Santa Rosa County. The effect of this ruling was to nullify the prosecution's earlier transfer of the case from Esacambia to Santa Rosa County.

This will benefit the defense, Walters said.

"This is a victory and an important ruling for our case," Walters told AVN Online on Wednesday. "We are slowly chipping away at this concept that county standards are appropriate for the Internet. While we believe it should be the nation or the state, at least we received a larger area than just one county. We argued that it would be too small of an area without enough diversity."

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[Rcourt64]

Escambia is one of them places where if ya stash to many dirty mags under ya bed, u'll get jailed.

But I couldn't agree more with this Walters fella...
Prosecuting using county laws for Internet businesses is old news . Adult need updated laws, rules and regs.
The Internet is its own world now, it needs its own law

[Hammer]

I can't say that the four counties they're using are much better than Escambia.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by Hammer

I can't say that the four counties they're using are much better than Escambia.

The only thing it does is give the defense a larger number of potential places to use as examples of similar content being openly available.

It's a step, albeit a very tiny one, in the right direction.

[RawAlex]

The only good (but expensive) news in all of this is if they lose, they have a ready made appeal that goes all the way to the surpreme court.

Essentially, the internet in and of itself is a community, with it's own standards and such. Further, the only way to access the internet normally is to enter into a contract and purchase / rent / barter for service. Those contracts can only be entered into by adults.

The internet isn't like putting a sex video store next to an elementary school. The only children in this neighborhood are here with their parents permission and support.

I have a feeling that this one is going to take a long, long time to come out in the wash.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

...I have a feeling that this one is going to take a long, long time to come out in the wash.

The wheels of justice do seem to move rather slowly.

What I find most disturbing is that even if in the end they are all found not guilty on all charges, which I think will indeed be the case, these guys have allready suffered irreparable harm to their lives and livlihoods.

[Rcourt64]

Originally Posted by Toby

The wheels of justice do seem to move rather slowly.

What I find most disturbing is that even if in the end they are all found not guilty on all charges, which I think will indeed be the case, these guys have allready suffered irreparable harm to their lives and livlihoods.

No shit sherlock.

[RawAlex]

Originally Posted by Toby

The wheels of justice do seem to move rather slowly.

What I find most disturbing is that even if in the end they are all found not guilty on all charges, which I think will indeed be the case, these guys have allready suffered irreparable harm to their lives and livlihoods.

Toby, to some extent, that is the point. The opponents of porn often seek to use the courts (and the court of public opinion) as a sort of baseball bat. They figure they can keep using it to beat us all down, slowing our progress and sometimes stopping it altogether. Most of us would be in hysterics for having a server down 24 hours. Can you imagine being out of the game for 2 or 3 years while they decide if what you are doing is legal?

This one will take a long time to wind to it's end, unless the guys fold their hand and plea bargin to avoid federal butt slammin' prison.

[TheEnforcer]

If I remember correctly these are cumshot sites correct? If it's the site I remember they had soem great content. Some of the best cumshot stuff out there.

[RawAlex]

They have very good cumshot stuff, much of it is group cumshot / bukkake stuff. I remember them doing a party at a show (in a bar, I won't mention where for obvious reasons) and that included about 20 guys dumping a load on some coed. It was a little weird to do it at a party, but there ya go.

It is pretty intense content, but that type of stuff has been around on the net for 10 years or longer. Our community standard has been met.

[Hammer]

Well Toby, I personally think you're being over confident in thinking they will be found not guilty on all counts. They were not indicted for running a run of the mill porn site they were charged with pandering and since rumor has it that they were conducting sex parties where the women were paid and the men weren't, this case isn't a slam dunk by any means.

[Rcourt64]

Originally Posted by Hammer

Well Toby, I personally think you're being over confident in thinking they will be found not guilty on all counts. They were not indicted for running a run of the mill porn site they were charged with pandering and since rumor has it that they were conducting sex parties where the women were paid and the men weren't, this case isn't a slam dunk by any means.

Pandering? Oh please now Mighty One, Thats one serious ass charge there, They'll get locked up for a looong time on that one and the rest? Well exactly like you quote "Rumors"

[EmporerEJ]

It would be incredibly bad if they were found guilty of ANY charge.

[KevinG]

Originally Posted by EmporerEJ

It would be incredibly bad if they were found guilty of ANY charge.

Exactly. However, I agree with Hammer. Larry is going to have to work hard for this one.

Originally Posted by Toby
The wheels of justice do seem to move rather slowly.

Yeah, the trial doesn't start until May 08. I'd just want to get this shit over with.

[Hammer]

Originally Posted by Rcourt64

Pandering? Oh please now Mighty One, Thats one serious ass charge there

Of course it's a serious charge and when I said "rumored" I just said it so it didn't sound like I was saying they were guilty but it is definitely the charge that the case in hinged on and the reason they were charged with racketeering and not just obscenity.

The thing that will suck for all of us is if they are found guilty of pandering because even if they are found innocent of obscenity, the government will claim it as a victory.

[RawAlex]

You guys need to pay very close attention to this one. The obscenity charges are going to be very difficult to push though to a guilty verdict. There is a fair amount of stuff possible in this that could take any decision either way to higher and higher courts. Those things include important issues like the definition of community in respects to the internet, the local of "obscene speech" relative to the location of the company, the locations used to shoot, and the location of the server used to deliver the content, etc.

Further, it is important to see the implications of counts not directly related to obscenity. Just like in the Diamond Jim spam case, the government not only put the spam (the main charge) on the table, but added in things like money laundering and playing games with offshore companies and accounts. The idea always is if you can't get the main charges to stick, you still have something to get them guys locked up and charged with.

My personal feelings is that 2257 rules (the newer ones) will be used in a similar manner, where companies will be charged with obscenity (headline news!) and also see charges related to 2257 and failure to maintain records accurately or to the standards set by the government. Those sorts of back door offences give the government the chance for a win even in loss, and also gives them a lesser crime to bargain down to, assuring a "win" for their side.

It is an important part of how the opponents of porn will attempt to run all US webmasters out of business.