just so I am not hijacking a thread here

[spazlabz]

I got this quote fro Hell Puppy about affiliate reps from the 50 most blah blah blah thread;

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

Anytime you take someone who is a "business owner" of any type in this biz and then you hear they're taking something like a "marketing" or "affiliate rep" or similar low level position with another program, it's pretty obvious what is happening. Business owners don't do that just because they're bored. You do it because you've suddenly become a squirrel trying to find your nut.

I put in bold type what caught my eye. I have been both a business owner AND an affiliate rep. Apollos-Temple was making me fat cash and honest to god after 9/11/2001 the bottom just fell out of it over night. Sure it was still bringing in money which enabled me and my wife to expand our sphere of endeavors but that site never fully recovered. And with over 150GB of videos and being the largest and first all video gay site on the net it did have some weight.

MY failure.. big deal, i own it.

But I have been an 'affiliate rep' at two companies;
Sexy City Cash
Royal Cash

In neither case has my job been to be an affiliate rep. Oh sure they start out with 'bring more affiliates and give them good service' but I assure you the job very quickly morphed in both cases to something of a manager.

[rant]At Royal Cash I am third in line to the thrown (does that make me the ugly kid the jester kicks? I dunno) but ahead of me is the owner of the company and the top manager. I both like and respect these two guys as much as I have liked or respected any two men I have ever met.

They are solid, honest, straight forward and say exactly what they mean. Of course I didn't type that to blow smoke up their ass as I am pretty sure neither one of them visit Oprano ever any more (even though I got this job from a post made on Oprano heh heh thanks Gonzo) This is also why I get a little offended when I hear someone bad mouthing Russians. Painting Russians with such a broad stroke is as ignorant as painting all Americans or Dutch or Germans.. well OK maybe Germans! (KIDDING!) with the same meat fisted approach [/rant]

I do not know about other programs but my work at this company has been to Introduce the brand to the western market, Americanize the sites that existed before I got here to appeal more to the American consumer, to be deeply involved in the development and follow through of new site concepts and to work extremely closely with a team from several different countries to improve every aspect of the company as a whole from webmaster tools to members areas to our entire affiliate program. It has been a meat and potato, roll up the sleeves of your shirt and get dirty kind of job so far and I love it.

That is what this affiliate manager does, so I do not consider that to be a 'low level' position heh heh

HellPuppy.... I understand, no offense intended and none taken bro


spaz

[softball]

Originally Posted by spazlabz

I got this quote fro Hell Puppy about affiliate reps from the 50 most blah blah blah thread;

I put in bold type what caught my eye. I have been both a business owner AND an affiliate rep. Apollos-Temple was making me fat cash and honest to god after 9/11/2001 the bottom just fell out of it over night. Sure it was still bringing in money which enabled me and my wife to expand our sphere of endeavors but that site never fully recovered. And with over 150GB of videos and being the largest and first all video gay site on the net it did have some weight.

MY failure.. big deal, i own it.

But I have been an 'affiliate rep' at two companies;
Sexy City Cash
Royal Cash

In neither case has my job been to be an affiliate rep. Oh sure they start out with 'bring more affiliates and give them good service' but I assure you the job very quickly morphed in both cases to something of a manager.

[rant]At Royal Cash I am third in line to the thrown (does that make me the ugly kid the jester kicks? I dunno) but ahead of me is the owner of the company and the top manager. I both like and respect these two guys as much as I have liked or respected any two men I have ever met.

They are solid, honest, straight forward and say exactly what they mean. Of course I didn't type that to blow smoke up their ass as I am pretty sure neither one of them visit Oprano ever any more (even though I got this job from a post made on Oprano heh heh thanks Gonzo) This is also why I get a little offended when I hear someone bad mouthing Russians. Painting Russians with such a broad stroke is as ignorant as painting all Americans or Dutch or Germans.. well OK maybe Germans! (KIDDING!) with the same meat fisted approach [/rant]

I do not know about other programs but my work at this company has been to Introduce the brand to the western market, Americanize the sites that existed before I got here to appeal more to the American consumer, to be deeply involved in the development and follow through of new site concepts and to work extremely closely with a team from several different countries to improve every aspect of the company as a whole from webmaster tools to members areas to our entire affiliate program. It has been a meat and potato, roll up the sleeves of your shirt and get dirty kind of job so far and I love it.

That is what this affiliate manager does, so I do not consider that to be a 'low level' position heh heh

HellPuppy.... I understand, no offense intended and none taken bro


spaz

Like any other nationality there are going to be examples of good solid honest people. I have met them. But as a rule of thumb, ya gotta have eyes in the back of your head to work with Russians. That is not just blowing smoke. It comes from a lot of experience. I would say the same thing about Nigerians though I have only a ton of anecdotal evidence to back that up.

[JoesHO]

Once again, I believe the CONTEXT of which one views a statement is important.

I too see that what hellpuppy said in that thread seemed like a put down to any and all working level people.....

However I do not believe that is what the context of his statement was meant to portray.

I believe he was trying to make a specific point about Bob and his history of being on a higher level pedestal in certain context, as what seems now to be a lower level position...

Now for the substance of that perception of mine in itself, I believe one must ask.... again a context question

lets say ( and I do not know if this is the case or not ) but for hypothetical instance here .... lets just say that company " owner" or "principle" #A owns a piece of a company, and for whatever reason is unhappy or has problems within the organization with partners, creative structure, beliefs in the business future road to take, etc.... whatever the differences may be.

SO Principle #a has a couple options here, he/she can fight with the other partners to who knows what end. meaning they can waste time and money, or hurt feelings and thereby seal the failure at some point of the company as they will never recover to see eye to eye again, they can have it mediated, litigated, or a disolution and split the money and move on ( we all know setting up new is not that easy and would require a lot more than the initial set up did.... oh and now you are on your own or you have inherited a group of unhappy employees that just had the scare of losing their jobs ... come along with you as well to rebuild so they are less than 100% committed and motivated no matter what they say verbally at this point.

Or Principle #a may just settle and quietly move out of the picture , this will inevitably lead them to find work ... so they take a position with company X and in the end that "low level" job instead of being an " owner " of a company may turn out to be a more profitable venture for them and give them the creative space they felt they were not getting as an owner of another company.....

This is just one scenario of course...

Believe me when Partners are involved ANYTHING can happen and often times does... so "failure" is not always the appropriate wording in these types of cases or situations I believe.


I realize that Hellpuppy was spot on when he described a perception that many people have when viewing a situation where a leader or owner has appeared to take a lesser role as a " where there is smoke there is fire" type of thing..... However I also believe that many times this is a mistaken observation as well. So i say again I believe CONTEXT is everything when making these types of observations and assessments of others motivations to make the moves they need to or want to make .... So unless the specifics are known I think it is hard to make the judgment on some one else's motivations.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by JoesHO

Believe me when Partners are involved ANYTHING can happen and often times does...

Dont we know it!

[Hell Puppy]

No offense intended or taken on this side either....

I never look down on anyone doing whatever they need to do to pay their bills. There's a lot of security in having a predictable pay check that comes from being employed by a larger company. There are now a lot of people who seek that in this business while simultaneously running their own gig.

That's good cash flow management if nothing else. You have a predictable income stream to cover your nut. But you have the other which can be much larger some months, but also runs the risk of having you one google update away from standing at the top of an exit ramp with a "will webmaster for food" sign.

However, in the last year or so we've seen several instances, like Bob, where it's pretty transparent that they ran for the safety of a paycheck from a larger company because their own empire was no longer providing the cash flow to pay the bills. From a subjective point of view, how I look at people who do that depends upon how they've personified themselves in the industry. If they've always pretended to be the big player player, trying to be pimp, etc, I think it's karma swinging around to take 'em down a peg or three.

Back to the issue at hand, influencing the industry. I know very few business owners who take any chances or do anything truly strategic with their company and their money that they themselves are not having the final say on. So although I have no doubt that there are many "affiliate reps" or whatever that are extremely important to the operation of their company, they are still tactical positions. And it's hard to call someone one of the 50 most influential if they are not the one with the final say so in what happens with their own company.

[JoesHO]

That is a very Valid point on the industry influence factor , hellpuppy

[Rcourt64]

Poor Webmaster have to hide in there Avatar costumes
to avoid embarrassment and shame

[helix]

Originally Posted by JoesHO

Believe me when Partners are involved ANYTHING can happen and often times does...

Can I get an "amen" brother !!!

Furthermore, Bob is good in my book, as well as having celeb status (inside j/k). Over the years, he has been very helpful in dropping nuggets of good info that unknowing to him influenced my path in this industry, and everybody knows I am now an industry giant .

Ok, Ok take that industry giant part is a stretch, but his advice has definitely benefited me on more than one occasion when I was a n00b and for that I am grateful. So yes, he has influenced me.

Kudos to Bob.

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by helix

Can I get an "amen" brother !!!

Furthermore, Bob is good in my book, as well as having celeb status (inside j/k). Over the years, he has been very helpful in dropping nuggets of good info that unknowing to him influenced my path in this industry, and everybody knows I am now an industry giant .

Ok, Ok take that industry giant part is a stretch, but his advice has definitely benefited me on more than one occasion when I was a n00b and for that I am grateful. So yes, he has influenced me.

Kudos to Bob.

So does this mean you'd partner with bob on something?

[helix]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

So does this mean you'd partner with bob on something?

Depends on the project, what it is, how it's structured, etc...
to many variables to give you a blanket yes or no. I would consider it.

[softball]

"There are now a lot of people who seek that in this business while simultaneously running their own gig.

That's good cash flow management if nothing else. "
I call bullshit. No one ever made it by playing safe. You can't have your bread buttered on both sides. You either play the game or you don't. Much as I really despise Serge Oprano, I do respect him for playing the game. Those who sit on the fence are shit in my book. But that is just MHO.

[helix]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

I call bullshit. No one ever made it by playing safe. You can't have your bread buttered on both sides. You either play the game or you don't. Much as I really despise Serge Oprano, I do respect him for playing the game. Those who sit on the fence are shit in my book. But that is just MHO.

So you now align yourself with Serges "old school" business practices?
hmmm.....interesting. I usually read all of your posts and I am surprised at your
declaration of admiration of his business model considering your past posts.
To each his own I guess.

I must say I feel I agree with HP's assessment of secure income as long as
your primary employer is OK with your extra curricular activities.
It's always good sense to secure an income stream.

[softball]

Originally Posted by helix

So you now align yourself with Serges "old school" business practices?
hmmm.....interesting. I usually read all of your posts and I am surprised at your
declaration of admiration of his business model considering your past posts.
To each his own I guess.

I must say I feel I agree with HP's assessment of secure income as long as
your primary employer is OK with your extra curricular activities.
It's always good sense to secure an income stream.

"So you now align yourself with Serges "old school" business practices?"
Nope. I think Serge Oprano is a loser. He never did shit except steal money. Any crack dealer can do that. As far as I am concerned, he is one lucky Russian not worthy of admiration because he would still be a sign painter today buying wine he can't afford. But Mike AI and Serge made it in life. However, I would be embarrassed as shit if I were them. They never had talent. They never had skill. They had good fortune and sometimes that is all it takes to make money. However, they never did one damn thing in this life that amounted to a hill of beans and for that I kind of feel sorry for their lack of achievement in the real world of success. money means nothing. Success means everything. Gonzo, this is a pearl for your archive.

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

"There are now a lot of people who seek that in this business while simultaneously running their own gig.

That's good cash flow management if nothing else. "
I call bullshit. No one ever made it by playing safe. You can't have your bread buttered on both sides. You either play the game or you don't. Much as I really despise Serge Oprano, I do respect him for playing the game. Those who sit on the fence are shit in my book. But that is just MHO.

Depends on how yo define "making it".

True financial independence? Yeah, hard to make that when you're working for someone else. About the only time it happens is when you have some stock. Quite a few millionaires in the Redmond, WA and San Jose, CA area.

Most consider themselves successful just by having the money to pay the bills and support the lifestyle that they and their family wish to lead. How much money that takes varies greatly by individual. Myself, I dont see how anyone enjoys life very much if they dont make at least 6 figures annually. But I'm sure there are plenty happy making $40-50K. And adult does at least give you the edge of setting your own schedule, working at home, being there with the kids or whoever needs your attention. There's a bit more to quality of life than just dollars and cents.

Back to working for a company and not taking risks... There are exceptions to the rule though. I remember RichC working for MaxCash for a long time. He would be well within the top 1% of the earners in the industry who are NOT program owners. Hell, he might be in the top 1% even if you include program owners.

[spazlabz]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

Back to the issue at hand, influencing the industry. I know very few business owners who take any chances or do anything truly strategic with their company and their money that they themselves are not having the final say on. So although I have no doubt that there are many "affiliate reps" or whatever that are extremely important to the operation of their company, they are still tactical positions. And it's hard to call someone one of the 50 most influential if they are not the one with the final say so in what happens with their own company.

not the issue at hand. I am most certainly not influential in this industry at all. Strictly an FFN who at one time made what I consider to be fat cash. Thats why I started a new thread... I didnt want to step on a very good thread about influential people in the biz This was just me saying 'hey.. i do a lot for the company I work for heh heh

Originally Posted by rhetorical

Much as I really despise Serge Oprano, I do respect him for playing the game. Those who sit on the fence are shit in my book. But that is just MHO.

nice to know where one stands since I guess I am a fence sitter. Working hard full time for a company that I am a true believer in as well as working on projects of my own when I have the time. Do I want to be a millionaire.... umm yeah, doesn't everyone? But I am perfectly happy not 'making it' but having enough cash to pay my bills and put some in the pocket as well.

I am an average guy I guess


spaz

[Hell Puppy]

We all work in a business where often times traditional value systems are upside down...

Work hard, give the customer what he wants, dont rip them off, generally do all of the things that make traditional online businesses (Amazon anyone?) successful.... If you do that here, most of the top players currently will tell you you're a chump, a nobody and leaving money on the table.

[softball]

My apologies to Mike AI and a retraction for my last post. It was out of line because I know damn well Mike is good at what he does and deserves a lot of respect for his achievements. Shit happens when you type too quickly and I actually did not mean any of that. Sorry Mike.

[zand_stein]

funny thread. i thought hijacking is at plane only... lol

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by zand_stein

funny thread. i thought hijacking is at plane only... lol

Holy shit, Oprano has it's own John from Cincinnati.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

Holy shit, Oprano has it's own John from Cincinnati.

"I got my eye on you"