Feminist looks to put Joe Francis out of Biz

[gonzo]

Feminist blogger Garance Franke-Ruta, in a piece on the Wall Street Journal's Opinion Journal, has an interesting article on what should be done about Joe Francis, the auteur behind the Girls Gone Wild videos. Franke-Ruta has hit on excellent solution for driving him out of the business of preying on drunk college girls. She wants to raise the minimum age for consenting to participate in hard- and softcore pornography to 21.

"A 21-year-old barrier would save a lot of young women from being manipulated into an indelible error, while burdening the world's next Joe Francis with an aptly limited supply of 'talent,'" says Franke-Ruta. On her blog she explains that while a girl may be adult enough to fight in Iraq at 18, she is not mature enough to decide whether it is a good idea to flash the camera. "Our laws recognize that maturity comes slowly," she says, pointing out that there are minimum ages for holding elective offices. She also says that she doesn't mind so much if girls give it away for free.

source

[TheEnforcer]

The sad part about this is.. I think there are politicians that might try and seize on soemthing like this.

[bluemoney]

Originally Posted by TheEnforcer

The sad part about this is.. I think there are politicians that might try and seize on soemthing like this.

No doubt, and on both sides of the isle at that. Adult entertainment is an easy target for political hacks to gain some easy points.

Hey! It beats taking on a real issue like crime, healthcare, education, tax reform etc. etc.

[TheEnforcer]

I'm surprised that this approach hasn't been tried before.

[tony404]

I think over 21 is not a bad idea to tell you the truth

[helix]

Originally Posted by tony404

I think over 21 is not a bad idea to tell you the truth

It would go a long way in clearing up the perception that all adult sites are preying on the young and foolish.

[Nymph]

Let me get this straight. She is saying a girl of 18 is adult enough to give up her life for her country, or in most cases for the political gain of someone elses agenda, but not to give up her cherry for a few bucks?

[tony404]

Originally Posted by Nymph

Let me get this straight. She is saying a girl of 18 is adult enough to give up her life for her country, or in most cases for the political gain of someone elses agenda, but not to give up her cherry for a few bucks?

I disagree most 18 yr olds arent mature enough to realize the longterm ramifications of what they are doing. Its too young it should be 21.

[tony404]

Originally Posted by helix

It would go a long way in clearing up the perception that all adult sites are preying on the young and foolish.

yes it would

[Robert]

If 18 is old enough to murder people, it's damn sure old enough to make decisions for themselves. If not, then we need to raise the minimum age to join the military to 21 as well.

[TheEnforcer]

She can decide to get married, enter into contracts, etc etc but she can't decide to have sex on camera? Give me a break.

[Nymph]

Originally Posted by tony404

I disagree most 18 yr olds arent mature enough to realize the longterm ramifications of what they are doing. Its too young it should be 21.

Then don't you think it should be 21 for everything?

And for both females & males?

[tony404]

Originally Posted by Nymph

Then don't you think it should be 21 for everything?

And for both females & males?

Yes I do

[Hell Puppy]

Would suit me fine if 21 were the universal age of adulthood for everyhing.

Forget naked pictures and dancing at titty bars. Let's talk voting, military service, drinking, the whole 9 yards. Make things like driving probationary.

I know I was lucky to make it to 21 due to some of the stupid shit I did at earlier ages.

[Hell Puppy]

Now with all that said, regarding the topic at hand.... I'd say I've had an equal amount of pain from models over 21 as those under 21. And we've shot more over 21's than we have under's.

We always do 100% disclosure before we take the first pic. It can almost seem like we're trying to talk them out of it. We intentionally try to make them think about things like what happens when your family and friends find the pics? We also point out the internet is forever, years down the road you may be married with a kid and someone finds it. Or you graduate school and an employer finds the pics from years earlier.

We've been around and shooting long enough that all of those scenarios have come to be.

The unfortunate reality is regardless of age, the models aren't seeing past that quick buck for a few hours work. They'll listen, they'll say they understand, but they'll take the chance. And they often come back whining when it happens.

[TheEnforcer]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

Now with all that said, regarding the topic at hand.... I'd say I've had an equal amount of pain from models over 21 as those under 21. And we've shot more over 21's than we have under's.

We always do 100% disclosure before we take the first pic. It can almost seem like we're trying to talk them out of it. We intentionally try to make them think about things like what happens when your family and friends find the pics? We also point out the internet is forever, years down the road you may be married with a kid and someone finds it. Or you graduate school and an employer finds the pics from years earlier.

We've been around and shooting long enough that all of those scenarios have come to be.

The unfortunate reality is regardless of age, the models aren't seeing past that quick buck for a few hours work. They'll listen, they'll say they understand, but they'll take the chance. And they often come back whining when it happens.

I'm curious. Do you record the entire explanation process as a protection measure? Even though the contract offers good protection I would think having that explanation on tape would be a real nice addition to make your protection that much stronger.

[tony404]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

Would suit me fine if 21 were the universal age of adulthood for everyhing.

Forget naked pictures and dancing at titty bars. Let's talk voting, military service, drinking, the whole 9 yards. Make things like driving probationary.

I know I was lucky to make it to 21 due to some of the stupid shit I did at earlier ages.

I agree 18 is too young still a kid and especially to go to war.

[Nymph]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

Would suit me fine if 21 were the universal age of adulthood for everyhing.

Forget naked pictures and dancing at titty bars. Let's talk voting, military service, drinking, the whole 9 yards. Make things like driving probationary.

I know I was lucky to make it to 21 due to some of the stupid shit I did at earlier ages.

I'm playing Devil's advocate here......

Then wouldn't that make the parents legally responsible for them until the age of 21?

------

I'm not saying I disagree with this, I just wish they would pick one age, and stick with it...not have one age legal for this, and a different age legal for something else.

[SykkBoy]

Hmmm, I know a lot of 21 year olds who aren't exactly gearing up for a degree in Rocket Science

[tony404]

Originally Posted by SykkBoy

Hmmm, I know a lot of 21 year olds who aren't exactly gearing up for a degree in Rocket Science

its still older and out of the teens.

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by SykkBoy

Hmmm, I know a lot of 21 year olds who aren't exactly gearing up for a degree in Rocket Science

Some people are beyond help. I have cousins nearing 40 who shouldn't be allowed out of the house.

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by Nymph

I'm playing Devil's advocate here......

Then wouldn't that make the parents legally responsible for them until the age of 21?

------

I'm not saying I disagree with this, I just wish they would pick one age, and stick with it...not have one age legal for this, and a different age legal for something else.

I agree. If you're old enough to die for your counry, you oughta be old enough to take a drink.

And parents? Ugh....parents who take ANY responsibility for their kids are rapidly becoming the small minority. More and more we are living in a society that is willing to let others raise our kids so we dont have to sacrifice our lifestyles.

Both parents work so you can afford the big house, nice cars, good vacations, nice clothes, etc. The cost is the kid spends more time with daycare, school, babysitters or worse unattended completely as a teen than with the family.

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by TheEnforcer

I'm curious. Do you record the entire explanation process as a protection measure? Even though the contract offers good protection I would think having that explanation on tape would be a real nice addition to make your protection that much stronger.

Not the very first meeting, that's almost always someplace public where the model feels very comfortable, typically Starbucks or similar. Tape would likely creep 'em out and at that point it's not an agreement, it's just a discussion.

If it goes beyond that, next meeting is typically first shoot and prefaced by all of the legal documentation being taken care of. At that point we go over the entire contract and again set expectations and full disclosure before the first shot is snapped.

That conversation is definitely on tape. We always have one video camera running a security tape at all times we're with a model. That way there's a complete record of everything said, done, the conditions of the environment, etc. It can never be said anyone was forced or coerced into anything. It's always 100% professional.

[TheEnforcer]

Thanks for the reply. Nice to see such measure being taken.

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by TheEnforcer

Thanks for the reply. Nice to see such measure being taken.

Unfortunately we're the exception not the rule I suspect.

Any girl who is not a first timer typically requires a bit of "rehab" to regain their trust. There's some real dirt bags working places like OMP, and the girls chase the dollar without applying a lot of common sense.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

Unfortunately we're the exception not the rule I suspect.

Any girl who is not a first timer typically requires a bit of "rehab" to regain their trust. There's some real dirt bags working places like OMP, and the girls chase the dollar without applying a lot of common sense.

Like the Meth Head that hung out on GFY that told the one shed make 4K a week.

Didnt have a car or a camera . . . but he had a phone with GPS.

Wonder how that career is working out in the Coast Guard?

Lets not forget the models themselves that cant show up on time due to not having a car, being out all night drugging and boozing that cant evem be bothered to do a blog entry in 6 months.

This one was "brainwashed" into thinking there was a high and mighty career with clips4sale.

So heres the deal . . . you look like shit when your up boozing and drugging all night before the shoot. A photographer like Earl Miller cant keep you from looking like a scarecrow when you show up for a shoot 6 hours late.