The whole directnic thing could be the best thing

[sarettah]

that could happen to the adult industry because it has gotten everyone talking about the age versus perceived age of the content that we put out there.

Back about a year ago, right after the last Oprano ownership change, some site owner or content provider posted some samples on the board. I looked at the samples and my only reaction was that they look like they were 12 years old.

I had been increasingly growing tired with seeing younger and younger looking content being pushed because as far as I'm concerned there is only one type of customer that enjoys that kind of content. If the industry caters to that type of customer there is no way they can honestly profess to want to get rid of cp, they are feeding the addiction that only creates an appetite for more.

I was ready to say something but I didn't because several people posted about what great content it was and I was not in the mood to get beat up that day.

Many times since I have been ready to speak my mind but since most of the industry seemed in favor of that type of content I kept my mouth shut rather than take on that type of fight.

With all the reaction going on right now, many people are voicing their negative opinions of anything that looks like cp. Those that are of the mind that if it's legal, I'll use it are also speaking their mind.

This is of itself an excellent dialog getting started and it needs to continue no matter what the outcome of the whole directnic/slick thing.

Just imho of course.

[softball]

so how do you feel about lightspeed?

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

so how do you feel about lightspeed?

I do not promote lightspeed sites. I do have an affiliate id from when I was running remote thumbs. Some of lightspeeds content looked young but I did not find the context that he usually presented his content in to be disturbing.

I made an earlier post on gfy today and I will use it here.

If you can dress up a 12 year old to look 18 as many modeling agencies and magazines do then you can damn well dress up a young looking 18 year old to look 18.

However, if you take that young looking 18 year old and purposely pose her and costume her to look prepubescent you have in my mind crossed way over the line of what is acceptable.

The lightspeed content that I viewed did not present a problem to me. But I don't spend a whole lot of time looking at content..........................................a nymore

[softball]

I looked online but could not find any pictures. But I saw the French Vogue children's supplement this year and it was chocked full of suggestive images of 12 year old girls with their blouses open, legs open and tons of stuff that could get a pornographer in serious trouble. I guess it is not as much of a problem for the French.

[sarettah]

Just saw this from Steve Lightspeed over at the zoo.
http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=687118

My opinion is this: An 18 year old should be allowed to be a nude model. She is considered an ADULT. However, consider this analogy:

If Barnes&Noble carries both Hustler Magazine, and Young Miss Magazine in the store, that's fine. If they put them on the SAME RACK, that's questionable. If they put them side by side on that rack, that feels wrong. But if they fold the YM inside the Hustler and sell them together as a two pack, THAT IS FUCKED UP!

This argument is all about CONTEXT. The setting of a picture, the hair, clothing and makeup, the props, the text around the pictures, the links to other pages, and the other pictures on the same page make the difference between "fine" and "fucked up".

I believe an 18 year old girl should be allowed to model nude if she wants to. Lightspeed has been accused in the past of making our models look younger than 18, so we adjusted our sets and shooting style to be less controversial. We support ASACP and the elimination of CP from the net. I think alot of these issues would go away if people used more COMMON SENSE.

Remember: "Just because you CAN, doesn't mean you SHOULD."

He gets it.

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

I looked online but could not find any pictures. But I saw the French Vogue children's supplement this year and it was chocked full of suggestive images of 12 year old girls with their blouses open, legs open and tons of stuff that could get a pornographer in serious trouble. I guess it is not as much of a problem for the French.

Well of course they're fucked up, they're French. What would you expect?

[softball]

That was explained very well. I personally think that Lightspeed is the model for teen websites. If 18 is the age, then nothing wrong with posting 18 year olds looking like 18 year olds.

[AnotherGrogan]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

so how do you feel about lightspeed?

College age girls, no? Many of the links I've followed at thumbnail gallery sites were lightspeed girls. Some of my favourite picture series are from LIghtspeed University.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by AnotherGrogan

College age girls, no? Many of the links I've followed at thumbnail gallery sites were lightspeed girls. Some of my favourite picture series are from LIghtspeed University.

Thanks for taking the time to hang out.

Some untainted/unsolicited surfer insight here for those paying attention.

[LadyMischief]

As much as the possibilitity of the ramifications if things go on as they have been frighten me, I do agree with you there. Many people know one of the niches I promoted the longest and got the best results with were teen... however, that does not mean I support CP type content. HOW people promote the niche is going to be affected completely by their morals/ethics, and for myself I never felt the need to make a teen look "younger" to sell a site. Using that approach really IS catering to the lowest common demoninator, and is definitely making yourself a target for scrutiny. It makes doing business much more difficult for other webmasters/websites as well.

Unfortunately, the flipside is that it DOES make money, and somehow, people will find ways to go on promoting things the way they do, and unless it's the SPONSORS who put their foots down on the way affiliates are presenting their content, things aren't really going to change. The sponsors create the content, the sponsors provide the content, I don't know why more of them aren't policing the USE of their content, not just looking for people who steal it, but monitoring and correcting the way people PRESENT it. Unfortunately I don't see this happening anytime soon because I am seeing more and more teen sponsors design even their tours in the same fashion that some people cut teen thumbs. A little airbrushing here, a little glow there, it's relatively easy to make a 18-19 year old's face look like a 13 year olds.

It's sick, and I don't agree with it. In some places it actually IS illegal to do this kind of thing, however, it's not illegal everywhere and unless we self-police, things like this DirectNIC thing will happen, or the goverment will step up even more and make all our lives miserable.

[LadyMischief]

Originally Posted by AnotherGrogan

College age girls, no? Many of the links I've followed at thumbnail gallery sites were lightspeed girls. Some of my favourite picture series are from LIghtspeed University.

Awesome! Those were probably my galleries! lol! Lightspeed girls are awesome, and rest assured the guy who runs the sites runs a tight ship. HIS girls are DEFINITELY legal

[LadyMischief]

Originally Posted by sarettah

Just saw this from Steve Lightspeed over at the zoo.
http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=687118


He gets it.

Agreed. One of the few unfortunately. Some of the sites out there today make me ill.

[LadyMischief]

Originally Posted by LadyMischief

Awesome! Those were probably my galleries! lol! Lightspeed girls are awesome, and rest assured the guy who runs the sites runs a tight ship. HIS girls are DEFINITELY legal

I should mention I meant my galleries as in "I designed them" as in they were "mine" lol

[AnotherGrogan]

Originally Posted by LadyMischief

I should mention I meant my galleries as in "I designed them" as in they were "mine" lol

Heheh, thanks for doing a great job then

I'm going to start sticking to known cleaner sites. I have to admit that some of the tgp redirects I've clicked in my wanderings have led me to things that have made me shred my browser cache files instead of clearing them. I don't want any more exposure to that crap. I was just thinking of it as wading through a sea of garbage to get to the content I like, but what has happened here has made me start to get more alarmed about it. I also never really thought much about ethics of the site operators. I'm glad to see that some of you have high standards.

It's also made me rethink something else. I could get lots more of the exact content I want by subscribing to a few of those (honest, reputable) sites that the good tgp's lead to, without exposing myself to bad juju. The really good ones are often the most generous with the samples for tgp galleries.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by AnotherGrogan

Heheh, thanks for doing a great job then

I'm going to start sticking to known cleaner sites. I have to admit that some of the tgp redirects I've clicked in my wanderings have led me to things that have made me shred my browser cache files instead of clearing them. I don't want any more exposure to that crap. I was just thinking of it as wading through a sea of garbage to get to the content I like, but what has happened here has made me start to get more alarmed about it. I also never really thought much about ethics of the site operators. I'm glad to see that some of you have high standards.

It's also made me rethink something else. I could get lots more of the exact content I want by subscribing to a few of those (honest, reputable) sites that the good tgp's lead to, without exposing myself to bad juju. The really good ones are often the most generous with the samples for tgp galleries.

Your in the right place for the straight scoop.

As a surfer do you see the use for an honest adult review site along with a site that would allow you to lodge complaints about a shitty site?

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by sarettah

that could happen to the adult industry because it has gotten everyone talking about the age versus perceived age of the content that we put out there.

Back about a year ago, right after the last Oprano ownership change, some site owner or content provider posted some samples on the board. I looked at the samples and my only reaction was that they look like they were 12 years old.

I had been increasingly growing tired with seeing younger and younger looking content being pushed because as far as I'm concerned there is only one type of customer that enjoys that kind of content. If the industry caters to that type of customer there is no way they can honestly profess to want to get rid of cp, they are feeding the addiction that only creates an appetite for more.

I was ready to say something but I didn't because several people posted about what great content it was and I was not in the mood to get beat up that day.

Many times since I have been ready to speak my mind but since most of the industry seemed in favor of that type of content I kept my mouth shut rather than take on that type of fight.

With all the reaction going on right now, many people are voicing their negative opinions of anything that looks like cp. Those that are of the mind that if it's legal, I'll use it are also speaking their mind.

This is of itself an excellent dialog getting started and it needs to continue no matter what the outcome of the whole directnic/slick thing.

Just imho of course.

There's a small percentage of people in this industry who really could give a rat's ass about "right and wrong". It's not that they do not know the difference, it's that they are blinded by a quick dollar and do not care.

They will make their business decisions based upon what makes the most money for the least effort in the shortest period of time that they can get away with. If they thought they could make a bundle by posting 14 year olds and get away with it, some would. Dont believe it? Do a little digging on some of the keywords, domain names and such some of these guys use to grab traffic. You start stringing together "lolita", "pre-teen", "nude", etc together I dont care what you say your marketing is targeting pedo's. Period.

I agree with Steve, it's all about context. I know the difference between what looks like a "hot babe" and a "little girl" when I see it. And in that 18 year old range that line can get blurred very quickly.

Going all the way back to the late 80's I've always judged suitability of content and whether I'd post it based upon what you'll hear us call "the pig tail factor" in FFN terminology. I dont care if she's 21, if you shoot the set in a kid-sized bed, the model has her hair in pig tails, and she's sucking on a lollipop, I dont want it. Why? Again, you're not marketing to normal healthy adult libidos, you're going after a pedo.

Now that's not to say every pic of a girl in pig tails is going after pedo's. Again, it's context, and I think we all know "fucked up" when we see it.

[AnotherGrogan]

Originally Posted by gonzo

As a surfer do you see the use for an honest adult review site along with a site that would allow you to lodge complaints about a shitty site?

I would see value in it if I could trust that the reviewers are not promoting or slandering something for personal gain. No offense to good people here, but we all know that some adult webmasters are prone to use any means of getting their sites promoted, including using other people to do their dirty work. Pathetic slimeball tactics like getting people to go 'round registering for shit.

Your wording of "honest review site" leads me to believe that's what you have in mind. Trusted reviewers and rigorous moderation/scrutiny of complaints lodged by Joe Public. That would be a good thing to have.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by AnotherGrogan

I would see value in it if I could trust that the reviewers are not promoting or slandering something for personal gain. No offense to good people here, but we all know that some adult webmasters are prone to use any means of getting their sites promoted, including using other people to do their dirty work. Pathetic slimeball tactics like getting people to go 'round registering for shit.

Your wording of "honest review site" leads me to believe that's what you have in mind. Trusted reviewers and rigorous moderation/scrutiny of complaints lodged by Joe Public. That would be a good thing to have.

Thank you for your input. I will be in touch.

[LadyMischief]

Originally Posted by AnotherGrogan

Heheh, thanks for doing a great job then

I'm going to start sticking to known cleaner sites. I have to admit that some of the tgp redirects I've clicked in my wanderings have led me to things that have made me shred my browser cache files instead of clearing them. I don't want any more exposure to that crap. I was just thinking of it as wading through a sea of garbage to get to the content I like, but what has happened here has made me start to get more alarmed about it. I also never really thought much about ethics of the site operators. I'm glad to see that some of you have high standards.

It's also made me rethink something else. I could get lots more of the exact content I want by subscribing to a few of those (honest, reputable) sites that the good tgp's lead to, without exposing myself to bad juju. The really good ones are often the most generous with the samples for tgp galleries.

Lightspeed has a package deal that allows you to pay one price and have access to as many of 10 of their sites at once, you choose which ones.

http://main.lightspeedworld.com/res/...v/tt/con/co/fc

Having been in all the Lightspeed member's areas, I can highly assure you that you will find more than enough great stuff there to keep you happy for eons to come

[LadyMischief]

Originally Posted by AnotherGrogan

I would see value in it if I could trust that the reviewers are not promoting or slandering something for personal gain. No offense to good people here, but we all know that some adult webmasters are prone to use any means of getting their sites promoted, including using other people to do their dirty work. Pathetic slimeball tactics like getting people to go 'round registering for shit.

Your wording of "honest review site" leads me to believe that's what you have in mind. Trusted reviewers and rigorous moderation/scrutiny of complaints lodged by Joe Public. That would be a good thing to have.

If Gonzo said it's going to be honest, he means to the point of brutality. I think you can be rest-assured of that! lol.

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by AnotherGrogan

we all know that some adult webmasters are prone to use any means of getting their sites promoted, including using other people to do their dirty work.

Really?

[Peaches]

Originally Posted by sarettah

Really?

See what happens when you start dealing with surfers on a webmaster board? I still think he's a fake, but whatever.

[LadyMischief]

Originally Posted by Peaches

See what happens when you start dealing with surfers on a webmaster board? I still think he's a fake, but whatever.

You're assuming that surfers aren't smart enough to figure out how things work. I know more than enough people in the "surfer" realm that are technically (or just generally) savvy enough to know when they are being bamboozled or to figure out how things work. This isn't the 90's anymore, it's the internet generation. And ESPECIALLY those who work in tech support etc, they will know/figure out how the system works.

[softball]

Originally Posted by LadyMischief

You're assuming that surfers aren't smart enough to figure out how things work. I know more than enough people in the "surfer" realm that are technically (or just generally) savvy enough to know when they are being bamboozled or to figure out how things work. This isn't the 90's anymore, it's the internet generation. And ESPECIALLY those who work in tech support etc, they will know/figure out how the system works.

I'w with peaches on this.

"I know more than enough people in the "surfer" realm that are technically (or just generally) savvy enough to know when they are being bamboozled "

How about the webmaster realm?

[Grump]

I have 2 reservations about this. On one hand we have Directnic attempting to enforce the laws. That is supposed to be the job of only government agencies and for a reason, they are regulated in what they can and can't do. The legislative branch of the government makes the laws, the judicial branch judges the laws, and then the enforcement agencies enforce these laws.

Directnic, or any other company, has no such oversight. This is just asking for problems, it is called vigilante justice and there's a reason it is not a good thing, it gets out of hand.

I am not saying that Directnic is right or wrong, just wondering who's standards they are applying as judge and jury here. Legal standards are supposed to be set by the government, not individuals with no oversight.

A registrar owned by a company or person with strong religious beliefs could use this same logic to make similar claims against any adult domain, that in thier view it is improper. They feel it is obscene, therefore it should be locked and removed and the precedent for this has been set by Directnic.

If Directnic sees problems, they should do as any other private or corporate entity does, report it to the proper authorities and let them do thier job.

The other thing I see is more and more people are judging content by how they think others will percieve it and not based on the content itself. A photo is obscene or not based on the contents of the photo, not by how you or I think someone else will view it. We all see things differently, I may think this model is hot while you may not, thats opinion.

To judge legality based on opinion and not law is dangerous, as who's opinion is right? Your's, mine, thier's??

Very worrisome.

[Peaches]

Grump, you're assuming a judge hasn't already ordered DirectNic to do what they did. I'm not saying that's what happened but I don't know, but it's certainly a possibility.

[Peaches]

Originally Posted by LadyMischief

You're assuming that surfers aren't smart enough to figure out how things work. I know more than enough people in the "surfer" realm that are technically (or just generally) savvy enough to know when they are being bamboozled or to figure out how things work. This isn't the 90's anymore, it's the internet generation. And ESPECIALLY those who work in tech support etc, they will know/figure out how the system works.

If "AnotherGrogan" is truly a surfer, then he has already proven he doesn't know how things work, which prompted Sarettah's post, which prompted mine.

Perhaps Gonzo's plan is to make this into a surfer board and he's legit.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by Peaches

Grump, you're assuming a judge hasn't already ordered DirectNic to do what they did. I'm not saying that's what happened but I don't know, but it's certainly a possibility.

There certainly does seem to be someone pulling strings from behind the curtain.

[tony404]

Originally Posted by Grump

I have 2 reservations about this. On one hand we have Directnic attempting to enforce the laws. That is supposed to be the job of only government agencies and for a reason, they are regulated in what they can and can't do. The legislative branch of the government makes the laws, the judicial branch judges the laws, and then the enforcement agencies enforce these laws.

Directnic, or any other company, has no such oversight. This is just asking for problems, it is called vigilante justice and there's a reason it is not a good thing, it gets out of hand.

I am not saying that Directnic is right or wrong, just wondering who's standards they are applying as judge and jury here. Legal standards are supposed to be set by the government, not individuals with no oversight.

A registrar owned by a company or person with strong religious beliefs could use this same logic to make similar claims against any adult domain, that in thier view it is improper. They feel it is obscene, therefore it should be locked and removed and the precedent for this has been set by Directnic.

If Directnic sees problems, they should do as any other private or corporate entity does, report it to the proper authorities and let them do thier job.

The other thing I see is more and more people are judging content by how they think others will percieve it and not based on the content itself. A photo is obscene or not based on the contents of the photo, not by how you or I think someone else will view it. We all see things differently, I may think this model is hot while you may not, thats opinion.

To judge legality based on opinion and not law is dangerous, as who's opinion is right? Your's, mine, thier's??

Very worrisome.

Im sorry it was in their TOS that he agreed so they did have the right. Sorry obscenity Im on the fight but CP the industry should police itself, fuck waiting. He was asked in a email because they received a compliant and did nothing but went to GFY instead of them because he didnt know if the email was real or not. Also he has produced ids yet, doesnt take that long to get them. Its bad enough they lump us in with CP and all these people running to slicks defense on very questionable material,that he seems clueless whats there and whats not.

[AnotherGrogan]

Originally Posted by sarettah

Really?

Yes, really. I administer servers and web forums and the like, and delete such postings on a daily basis that come from people trying to portray themselves as new members who are sharing something that interests them. Porn, pirated software, snake oil programs, you name it. I should not have singled out "adult site operators". I meant what I said, "no offense to good people here" implying that you would not do things like that. But others might.

Perhaps I should not have said I'm a "surfer" but in terms of relevance to this forum, and the discussion I jumped into, that's what I am.