MoveOn.org is going after Wal-Mart

[Red]

This is from an email sent out by MoveOn.org


This week, the director of "Uncovered: The War on Iraq" and "Outfoxed"
released his latest film, "Wal-Mart: the High Cost of Low Prices." It's a
powerful expose on the toll the Wal-Mart behemoth has taken on workers and
communities across the country, and how we can help turn the tide.

Wal-Mart is going into attack mode. The company has literally created a
war room, staffed with political consultants who are working day and night
to undermine the movie and spread pro-Wal-Mart propaganda [1]. But it's not
working: thanks to the questions raised by the film, national media are
tuning in to Wal-Mart's high cost to American families--and last week the
movie was featured on page 1 of the New York Times [2].

Next week, a coalition of hundreds of unions, churches, small business
associations and citizens' groups [3] are taking this fight to thousands of
living rooms around the country, holding viewing parties to watch the
movie and get organized. They've invited us to join them.

Can you host a Wal-Mart movie screening party next Tuesday, November 15th?
Sign up today:

http://www.walmartmovie.com/host.php?track=moveon ;

We'll make sure you get the movie before the 15th if you order by Tuesday,
November 8th.

If you can't host a party, you can still buy an advance copy of the
powerful new film online at:

http://www.walmartmovie.com/watch.php?track=moveon

These viewing parties are all part of the national "Wal-Mart Week of
Action." This week is a great opportunity for MoveOn members to work
directly with the members of our partner groups. If you choose to make
your screening party public, it will be added to the central pool and
local folks from the Service Employees International Union, (SEIU), the
Independent Business Association, or any of our hundreds of other partners
will be invited to join you.

Once you sign up, you'll receive a special screening packet with
everything you need and some easy next steps that your group can take to
become part of the solution.

In its debut week the Wal-Mart movie was featured on The Today Show, [4] on
the front page of the New York Times, and Entertainment Weekly gave the
film an "A-" rating [5]. Salon wrote this glowing review:

"What makes the movie so powerful is the totality of the portrait, both
in its details and its sweep. Most of these people are entirely
unexceptional Americans from the working class or lower-middle class,
believers in flag and country and God and capitalism, not left-wing
activists or academics with some theoretical critique. Most of them
believed in Wal-Mart, too, and were genuinely horrified to learn that
its low prices depended on enforced poverty, whether theirs or somebody
else's." [6]

MoveOn is sponsoring screenings of the film on Tuesday, November 15th, but you can also choose to host another day that week if it works better for you.

After Katrina, we committed to work together to help rebuild a middle
class America. It's critical to examine why so many hard working families
are watching the American Dream slip away. Wal-Mart, the world's largest
corporation and nation's largest employer, is a major piece of that
puzzle.

Wal-Mart is owned by the nation's wealthiest family, [7] but its average
salary is below the poverty line [8]--leaving over half of it's full time
employees without health care or dependent on Medicaid [9]. It drives down
labor standards at home and around the world [10]. It has destroyed
countless small businesses in thousands of communities [11]. And it does it
all by absorbing billions of dollars in corporate welfare every year [12].

We hope you'll be able to join the national Wal-Mart Week of Action and
host a screening Tuesday, November 15th (or another day that week that
works better for you). When you sign up to host, you'll get an advance
copy of the movie, and later an action packet to help your group plan some
easy next steps.

Please sign up to host right now at:

http://www.walmartmovie.com/host.php?track=moveon ;

And if you can't host a screening, you're still invited to purchase an
advance personal copy of the new film at:

http://www.walmartmovie.com/watch.php?track=moveon

Thanks for all that you do,


PAID FOR BY MOVEON.ORG POLITICAL ACTION


It looks like they're looking to strike at the heart of Wal-Mart.
Which, as we all know, is located behind the tv's.

[Peaches]

I was reading in the Atlanta paper today that the average WalMart associate wage is $9+ an hour plus benefits.

I know when my son worked there he did well for an uneducated kid with no experience.

People need to realize that 99.9% of the time you earn what you're worth - if not more.

I'll also guarantee you that most of the Walmart whiners are walking in there and purchasing something that would cost more elsewhere.

In my little town the Walmart hasn't affected smaller businesses. If you want/need to charge more, be sure to treat the customer better and they'll keep coming.

[Dravyk]

Sounds like a South Park episode from two years ago.

[pushpills]

Originally Posted by Peaches

I was reading in the Atlanta paper today that the average WalMart associate wage is $9+ an hour plus benefits.

I know when my son worked there he did well for an uneducated kid with no experience.

People need to realize that 99.9% of the time you earn what you're worth - if not more.

I'll also guarantee you that most of the Walmart whiners are walking in there and purchasing something that would cost more elsewhere.

In my little town the Walmart hasn't affected smaller businesses. If you want/need to charge more, be sure to treat the customer better and they'll keep coming.

AMEN!

in my ex-girlfriends tiny indiana hometown, they had a walmart. the locals there had a steady job that paid enough to live in a cheap small town, and provided cheap goods for low wage earning residents. they're big for a reason, they're needed.

[Vick]

I almost never shop in a wal-mart, have been in one maybe 4 times
They are too gray and depressing

But I would love for a Wal-Mart to hire someone with Touretts Syndrome as a greeter
"How ya fucking doing today you fucking cunt, buy some cheap fucking shit you cheap pig bitch bastard"

I can't believe someone hasn't done that bit in a movie or stand up yet

[Peaches]

Originally Posted by Vick

I almost never shop in a wal-mart, have been in one maybe 4 times
They are too gray and depressing

But I would love for a Wal-Mart to hire someone with Touretts Syndrome as a greeter
"How ya fucking doing today you fucking cunt, buy some cheap fucking shit you cheap pig bitch bastard"

I can't believe someone hasn't done that bit in a movie or stand up yet

Actually there was a girl (beautiful too) who had Tourettes who worked at our local Walmart in the camera department.

She didn't do the profanity - it sounded more like a huge old man clearing his throat. A lot. And SO loud. But in small towns oddities are tolerated a lot better I haven't seen her there in a while but obviously I don't go in near as much as I used to.

[Mike AI]

If moveon.org is as sucessful with walmart as they have been with republicans - I am buying walmart stock.

[Dravyk]

Originally Posted by Mike AI

If moveon.org is as sucessful with walmart as they have been with republicans - I am buying walmart stock.

LMAO!!!

[pushpills]

Originally Posted by Mike AI

If moveon.org is as sucessful with walmart as they have been with republicans - I am buying walmart stock.

[PornoDoggy]

Ah, nothing like the sound of bleating sheep to start the morning off in a pleasant way.

[Timon]

Originally Posted by Peaches

Actually there was a girl (beautiful too) who had Tourettes who worked at our local Walmart in the camera department.

She didn't do the profanity - it sounded more like a huge old man clearing his throat. A lot. And SO loud. But in small towns oddities are tolerated a lot better I haven't seen her there in a while but obviously I don't go in near as much as I used to.

I got it too, the cursing only happens in movies

[Timon]

power to the workers! down with the evil rich people!

moveon.org seems to have pretty marxist ideals

[selena]

WalMart may be evil, but if so, it is a necessary evil for alot of places.

[Timon]

a provider of jobs and cheap shopping, it doesn't get more evil than that

[PornoDoggy]

What's funny about this is that the defenders of Walmart generally put about as much, er, as little thought into their understanding of the dynamic as they accuse the Walmart foes of doing.

Bleat away, little sheepies ... bleat away.

[selena]

Originally Posted by Timon

a provider of jobs and cheap shopping, it doesn't get more evil than that

I don't like them on some levels. Huge numbers of their workers rely on food stamps and Medicade. I am short on time atm, but here are a couple of representative links substantiating that fact. The web is full of them, from all types of sources.

http://www.aflcio.org/corporatewatch...t_tax_memo.pdf

This from an article in the Times-Picayune:
In Michigan, 15 percent of Wal-Mart workers are on Medicaid, costing the state $20 million a year, Basham said. Food assistance adds another $34 million.

http://www.nola.com/business/t-p/ind...7441080440.xml

Now, do I think that these are rocket science jobs we are talking about, and that the people should be compensated accordingly?

For the largest part, no.

However, I do think that when you are talking about one of the richest companies in the world that my tax dollars should not go to subsidize their labor costs.

WalMart should bear the costs for this kind of stuff, and if that means higher prices as a result, then that is fine. The people who will be paying the higher prices are people who chose to shop at WalMart. The costs will not be rammed down the throats of all tax payers.

Not to mention the numbers of Americans in need...truly in need...disabled, whatever...who are either not being served or are being under served by social service/govt agencies because WalMart employees are getting the resources instead.

To me, that is evil, yep.

I also see some postive things about WalMart, but while not the brightest bulb in the bunch sometimes, I do know that anything cheap comes with a price.

[PornoDoggy]

Originally Posted by selena

I don't like them on some levels. Huge numbers of their workers rely on food stamps and Medicade. I am short on time atm, but here are a couple of representative links substantiating that fact. The web is full of them, from all types of sources.

http://www.aflcio.org/corporatewatch...t_tax_memo.pdf

This from an article in the Times-Picayune:
In Michigan, 15 percent of Wal-Mart workers are on Medicaid, costing the state $20 million a year, Basham said. Food assistance adds another $34 million.

http://www.nola.com/business/t-p/ind...7441080440.xml

Now, do I think that these are rocket science jobs we are talking about, and that the people should be compensated accordingly?

For the largest part, no.

However, I do think that when you are talking about one of the richest companies in the world that my tax dollars should not go to subsidize their labor costs.

WalMart should bear the costs for this kind of stuff, and if that means higher prices as a result, then that is fine. The people who will be paying the higher prices are people who chose to shop at WalMart. The costs will not be rammed down the throats of all tax payers.

Not to mention the numbers of Americans in need...truly in need...disabled, whatever...who are either not being served or are being under served by social service/govt agencies because WalMart employees are getting the resources instead.

To me, that is evil, yep.

I also see some postive things about WalMart, but while not the brightest bulb in the bunch sometimes, I do know that anything cheap comes with a price.

What? You see gray instead of black and white?

'Fess up. You're a commie, aren't you?

[Timon]

Originally Posted by selena

To me, that is evil, yep.

They are in the business for profit and are simply doing what makes the most economic sense, if they would raise their prices and raise their salaries they may not be able to be able to stay competitive enough to be able to stay in business.

If you think they are being unfair, abusing their workers etc. etc. then complain to the government about changing labor law. Walmart is not a charity organization, they are a for profit organization, and their shareholders expect them to do whatever earns the most money within the law.

If you think that is evil then I am sorry to say you are living in the most evil nation on earth because that's how American free market economics work.

Mornin PD beeeeeheeeeeee

[Timon]

Originally Posted by Vick

But I would love for a Wal-Mart to hire someone with Touretts Syndrome as a greeter
"How ya fucking doing today you fucking cunt, buy some cheap fucking shit you cheap pig bitch bastard"

that's not really how tourettes works Vick

[PornoDoggy]

What good would it do to complain to the government about changing labor laws when Walmart doesn't comply with existing ones?

The impact of Walmart on a community has both good and bad affects. They do hire people, but generally that only covers a percentage of the workers laid off in a region where they open or expand (the impact Walmart has goes far beyond the town it is located in). They also have an enormous impact in depressing wages, not just for the folks they hire from other locations, but for new hires at other stores.

Where is Teddy Roosevelt when you need him?

[Timon]

Originally Posted by PornoDoggy

What good would it do to complain to the government about changing labor laws when Walmart doesn't comply with existing ones?

So complain to the government for not enforcing their labor laws

[selena]

Originally Posted by PornoDoggy

What? You see gray instead of black and white?

'Fess up. You're a commie, aren't you?

If I told you, I'd have to kill you.

[PornoDoggy]

Some states have taken measures to put Walmart in check within their jurisidcitions.

Federal activity against Walmart has cooled considerably in the last five years, whether because of PAC money or disdain for labor laws. Federal activity over the eight years before that wasn't too great either, whether because of PAC money or where their corporate HQ was located.

I don't regard Walmart as evil. I regard Walmart as a reflection of the society we live in - cheap, flashy, overhyped, superficial, and disposable.

Where is Teddy Roosevelt when you need him?

[Timon]

Originally Posted by PornoDoggy

I don't regard Walmart as evil. I regard Walmart as a reflection of the society we live in - cheap, flashy, overhyped, superficial, and disposable.

That I do agree with

[selena]

Originally Posted by Timon

They are in the business for profit and are simply doing what makes the most economic sense, if they would raise their prices and raise their salaries they may not be able to be able to stay competitive enough to be able to stay in business.

If you think they are being unfair, abusing their workers etc. etc. then complain to the government about changing labor law. Walmart is not a charity organization, they are a for profit organization, and their shareholders expect them to do whatever earns the most money within the law.

If you think that is evil then I am sorry to say you are living in the most evil nation on earth because that's how American free market economics work.

Mornin PD beeeeeheeeeeee

No, I don't recall saying...or intending to have it interpreted as such...that they abused their workers.

As to the rest, we just disagree. I don't see being in business for profit and being responsible in business as mutally exclusive.

I agree with you, that WalMart is breaking no laws by having taxpayers pick up the tab for a portion of their labor costs.

I also think that just because something can be done, doesn't mean it should be done.

[Timon]

Originally Posted by selena

I also think that just because something can be done, doesn't mean it should be done.

Unfortunately shareholders tend to disagree with that

[Robin]

I didn't know anything much about Wal*Mart until I moved to Texas about 18 months ago. But I have seen the devastation they have wreaked. When they came to Kingsville, TX, within about 2 years the entire Downtown area, with the exception of about two stores was deserted and boarded up. Next the roads surrounding Downtown started having more and more boarded up businesses. Then Sears left, then JC Penney left. Now we have a huge Wal*Mart on the outskirts of the city and the center is dead (except, that is, some entrepreneurs are trying to start businesses that Wal*Mart can't compete with, souvenirs, restaurants and so on).

The next city along, Alice, had their Downtown devastated too! And the smaller towns around actually have lost nearly all their shops and look like ghost towns. I estimate probably 200 plus retail businesses locally were put out of business. If each business had 3 employees that's 600 people. Which is way MORE than Wal*Mart employ.

I don't blame Wal*Mart, they discovered a superb business strategy and milked it all the way. But... there *is* another side to the story. Maybe it's worse in poorer areas like South Texas - but it's there.

[Timon]

Man I LOVE Wallmart, good company... I am going to buy some stocks right now!

[Robin]

Originally Posted by Timon

Man I LOVE Wallmart, good company... I am going to buy some stocks right now!

Well, the...

6th...
7th...
8th...
9th...
& 10th...

Richest people in America are Waltons - you'll be in good company

[selena]

Originally Posted by Timon

Unfortunately shareholders tend to disagree with that

Agreed.

I have to admit that if someone handed me a bunch of WalMart stock, that I would not turn it down on principal. I've been stuck in survival mode for too many years to not be honest and say I'd want the cash.

But for the moment or two that I can step back and look at the bigger picture, I can issues with the butterfly effect.

[Peaches]

Originally Posted by selena

I don't like them on some levels. Huge numbers of their workers rely on food stamps and Medicade. I am short on time atm, but here are a couple of representative links substantiating that fact. The web is full of them, from all types of sources.

http://www.aflcio.org/corporatewatch...t_tax_memo.pdf

This from an article in the Times-Picayune:
In Michigan, 15 percent of Wal-Mart workers are on Medicaid, costing the state $20 million a year, Basham said. Food assistance adds another $34 million.

http://www.nola.com/business/t-p/ind...7441080440.xml

Now, do I think that these are rocket science jobs we are talking about, and that the people should be compensated accordingly?

For the largest part, no.

However, I do think that when you are talking about one of the richest companies in the world that my tax dollars should not go to subsidize their labor costs.

WalMart should bear the costs for this kind of stuff, and if that means higher prices as a result, then that is fine. The people who will be paying the higher prices are people who chose to shop at WalMart. The costs will not be rammed down the throats of all tax payers.

Not to mention the numbers of Americans in need...truly in need...disabled, whatever...who are either not being served or are being under served by social service/govt agencies because WalMart employees are getting the resources instead.

To me, that is evil, yep.

I also see some postive things about WalMart, but while not the brightest bulb in the bunch sometimes, I do know that anything cheap comes with a price.

So you take people who would be making no money and would be on Welfare, give them a job at Walmart, give them some $$$, get them off Welfare and it's bad that they are still getting SOME government aid? Or maybe they should raise the prices, people stop shopping there, and they have to lay off employees.

If they aren't getting the pay and benefits their work deserves, they can go work elsewhere.

One of John's former workers at Walmart opened a restaurant here in town and hired several Walmart employees. She's paying $2 an hour more than they were making at WM and most make tips. She said 80% of the ones she hired from WM quit and went back to WM because they didn't want to actually work

[Zeina-Heart]

Originally Posted by Dravyk

Sounds like a South Park episode from two years ago.

I was thinking the same thing

[Timon]

Originally Posted by Peaches

So you take people who would be making no money and would be on Welfare, give them a job at Walmart, give them some $$$, get them off Welfare and it's bad that they are still getting SOME government aid? Or maybe they should raise the prices, people stop shopping there, and they have to lay off employees.

I was thinking something similar when an article was quoted that said 15% are getting medical aid...

How many hours per week are those people working, how long have they been working for Wallmart, how old are they?

Example: a single mother who can only work part-time at the cash register, would she be part of that 15%?

[SykkBoy]

Originally Posted by Timon

I was thinking something similar when an article was quoted that said 15% are getting medical aid...

How many hours per week are those people working, how long have they been working for Wallmart, how old are they?

Example: a single mother who can only work part-time at the cash register, would she be part of that 15%?

Not to mention the 65 year old greeters who are generally already on medicaid anyways and can only work so many hours per week to keep their benefits.

[Timon]

Originally Posted by SykkBoy

Not to mention the 65 year old greeters who are generally already on medicaid anyways and can only work so many hours per week to keep their benefits.

exactly!

[PornoDoggy]

As far as I could tell, study that Selena linked to doesn't distinguish between full and part-time workers, nor does it provide any kind of age breakdown for the data.

It's still sobering reading for those who give a rat's ass about things like people having healthcare. In most of the states listed in the study, Walmart is the largest employer with employees participating in state-funded healthcare programs (larger in California than McDonalds). In most of these states Walmart is reaping millions of dollars in tax benefits at the same time.

You WILL pay for healthcare for the poor. You will pay it in taxes (Medicaid costs), you will pay it in higher direct care costs or you will pay it in your insurance rates (as hospitals and health care providers pass on losses to the folks with the ability to pay.

Granted - there could be more information in the study. Like I said, however, it still paints a pretty grim picture.

[Peaches]

Employer provided healthcare is a BENEFIT, not a RIGHT. More and more companies are dropping that benefit and many others are making those with families pay for the family's coverage, others are raising rates for smokers, etc.

There are catastropic policies out there for less than $100 a month. If you're working part time at Walmart and don't qualify for their health insurance, get another part time job that pays a couple of hundred a month and get your own health insurance.

[PornoDoggy]

Originally Posted by Peaches

Employer provided healthcare is a BENEFIT, not a RIGHT. More and more companies are dropping that benefit and many others are making those with families pay for the family's coverage, others are raising rates for smokers, etc.

There are catastropic policies out there for less than $100 a month. If you're working part time at Walmart and don't qualify for their health insurance, get another part time job that pays a couple of hundred a month and get your own health insurance.

Thank you for letting me know that healthcare is a benefit, not a right.

I'm not sure why you did so, however - I did finish 8th grade, and don't recall asserting that healthcare was a right.

Since, as I said, I did finish 8th grade and do occasionally read a newspaper or other periodical, I am also aware of the fact that more and more companies are decreasing or eliminating healthcare benefits.

I see nothing in the study that Selena referenced to suggest that the majority of those workers ARE part time. I don't doubt that some of them are, btw - I can see no reason to do so unless it fits a preexisting prejudice. I just don't know how many, and see no reason to assume that they make up the majority.

Your assumption that catastrophic coverage would benefit these sorts of workers in any tangible way shows how little you know. The costs of a routine exam or normal illness are often budget-breakers for them.

Sad but true, honey - like it or not, you're going to pay for their healthcare. It can be in increased costs at Walmart, or it can be increased taxes and/or insurance, or it can be in increased costs from your doctor, drugstore and hospital.

[Peaches]

I was a single mother, nothing past a HS diploma, no working experience and got no child support or any government money. I picked jobs according to what their benefits were. If they didn't offer health insurance but the money was good, I'd get my own. I also had a roommate so I could afford these things. I wanted more kids but obviously knew I couldn't afford them.

Please don't ask me to have sympathy for those who had the same choices I had and made different decisions and are now facing the errors they caused.

Yes, we're paying for other's bad judgement in the long run no matter what, but that doesn't make it right.

[MorganGrayson]

My husband is lucky enough to love his job. He's unlucky in that his salary is very low compared to others in his field. He's unlucky in that he can't look for a higher paying job. He's lucky that the reason he can't look for another job is the health care benefits his company provides for his wife. I get to collect disabilities and doctors with great regularity thanks to this benefit.

I've read the articles about the small towns that died "due to the building of a Walmart." I grieved. I love small towns and think there are few things as sad as driving through one and seeing all the boarded up, empty businesses.

We shop at Walmart because of the prices. Cat food, cat litter, all the paper goods and cleaning products...they are so much cheaper than anywhere else. The fact that the place is always crowded means a lot of other people think so, too.

Frankly, I doubt their employees would have a lot of luck finding jobs elsewhere, where actual intellect, skills and the all important "people skills" would be required. That either means Walmart deliberately hires from the bottom of the gene pool or these people are damned lucky to have found a place to hire them. (The elderly or handicapped greeters are an exception. All of them that I've encountered seem to be genuinely happy people with genuine welcomes. However, I'm certain they're grateful for employment, too.)

Would I pay a few cents more per item so that these people could be given good benefits? Sure, no problem. Will I deliberately shop somewhere else, paying much higher prices, because of "moral outrage" at Walmart? Nope.

I'll whore for my cats, without apology.

[WebairGerard]

I saw the "Uncovered: The War on Iraq" DVD and thought it was great. I would like to see the wal mart one too. There is more to Wal Mart then wages. Their business practices have been hurtful to many. One nice step in the right direction is their new pledge to help the environment and use cleaner fuels to run stores and for trucking.

[Robin]

Originally Posted by WebairGerard

Their business practices have been hurtful to many.

Our Wal*Mart became so successful they built yet another one - even further out of town where the land was cheaper. So guess what? The Strip mall beside where they moved from that had just started to build up after the devastation of Downtown totally died when they left. Wal*Mart destroyed nearly all other large shops in Kingsville - TWICE within a few years.

But that's not all - they've kept the building they left unleased ever since then. It's left empty and all requests by other retailers to lease it from them have been refused. They are VERY aggressive.

[selena]

Originally Posted by Peaches

So you take people who would be making no money and would be on Welfare, give them a job at Walmart, give them some $$$, get them off Welfare and it's bad that they are still getting SOME government aid? Or maybe they should raise the prices, people stop shopping there, and they have to lay off employees.

If they aren't getting the pay and benefits their work deserves, they can go work elsewhere.

One of John's former workers at Walmart opened a restaurant here in town and hired several Walmart employees. She's paying $2 an hour more than they were making at WM and most make tips. She said 80% of the ones she hired from WM quit and went back to WM because they didn't want to actually work

You've got alot of valid points in that post, I must admit. When I re-read this thread, I can see that I swayed back and forth on the issue, really. Which is what will happen when I'm running on no sleep.

Seriously though, as I said in one of my first posts on this, I see both value and harm in WalMart.

When I worked for a bookie, we'd call that a push, Miss Peaches.

[Peaches]

Originally Posted by selena

You've got alot of valid points in that post, I must admit. When I re-read this thread, I can see that I swayed back and forth on the issue, really. Which is what will happen when I'm running on no sleep.

Seriously though, as I said in one of my first posts on this, I see both value and harm in WalMart.

When I worked for a bookie, we'd call that a push, Miss Peaches.

And pushes shouldn't be newsworthy