Carrie...you ignorant slut.

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by Carrie

It comes down to the people, somehow. The humans - ? I wouldn't even call those animals that. The people of New York rose to the occasion, the people of New Orleans sunk into the deepest depravity imaginable.

but I can't stop coming back to how the people themselves didn't have to dissolve into this level of barbarism.

You know I love you kid but this is beyond even the Rush Limbaugh ditto head mentality that you normally display.

You dare to denigrate an entire population upon the acts of a few. The entire population hardly "dissolved into barbarism". A few members of the population showed their total disregard for humanity and somehow that makes the entire population sinking into "the deepest depravity"?

To even compare the loss of 350,000 homes to the loss of two skyscrapers is beyond the pale.

One of the poorest populations in our country has now had everything they owned sucked out from under them, they are scared, they are desperate, they are confused and up until yesterday they were abandoned by all levels of the government.




edited in: Welcome back

[Inabon]

holy shit north vs south.


they say they south will rise again

[Carrie]

Thanks for the welcome back :P

I wasn't comparing homes to buildings... I was thinking more on the scale of "disaster to disaster". Hopefully this one won't come close to the 3,000 or so we lost back on 9/11, but you never know.

And yeah, I'm generalizing a bit, but it's more than just "a few". Gangs in the streets, gangs in the Dome, hell even the police are looting. It's some major differential shift in thinking. You didn't see this kind of thing on 9/11, and if you want "like kind" disaster, you didn't see it after the tsunami either. (I did hear of some people trying to lure away kids to sell them though, that's the only bad thing I heard.)

Do I still qualify as a slut if I'm monogamous? Hubby will like that

[Vick]

Paint me an ignorant slut

I'm sort of with Carrie on this one

Both were terrible and in no way can be compared

But how the people of NYC acted with what went on in New Orleans, no matter how many or how few
How can you turn predator in a horrible circumstance?

Give me a (somewhat) fair game and then turn predator

Not one cent will go from my pockets to ANY GENERAL NEW ORLEANS RELIEF FUND and I strongly suggest you do the same

Did you see the shit Harry O and Wynton Marsais were saying on the red cross show last night
They were hinting it was a race issue why help didn't get in quicker

[XxXotic]

you people fail to realize the MAJOR differences between NY and New Orleans

a: new yorkers did NOT have to sit on roof tops surrounded by 12' of contaminated water
b: new yorkers did NOT have to wait almost a week for food, water, shelter
c: New Yorkers did NOT have to sit in 100-110° weather for a week without food or water
d: New Yorkers did not have to swim through dead bodies, alligators, water moccasins, dead animals and human waste
e: New Yorkers did not lose their entire city
f: Help was there THE SAME DAY on 9/11... it took almost 5 days for any REAL help to reach new orleans.

I grew up on the east coast, I spent more time in NY then most people who lived in New York did, so believe me, New York is "home" to me more-so then Louisiana is (Where I've been for the last 6-7 years) you cannot even begin to compare 9/11 to This. 9/11 was catastrophic make no mistake about it, but this is 100x worse then 9/11. There will be THOUSANDS (estimates of 5-10k) dead when all this water gets out of the city and they can go through each house and building. And these counts wont even include anyone who got sucked into the river or the lake or were eaten by predatory animals.

Sorry, but you mention them being "animals" I'd like to see you lose your ENTIRE city, not just your house but the Entire city you call home, sit on a roof for a week with no food or water surrounded by a cess pool basically watching people drop dead in front of you from hunger, sickness or dehydration and see how you act. It's a desperate situation, I'd like to see how fucking calm you remained in those circumstances

If you're not in lousiana, you really have NO idea the magnitude of this. The news shows about 1/3rd of if and truly does not do the situation justice

[Weg Cory]

How do you compare the WTC to an entire city?

Destroy NYC:Brooklyn, Manhattan, Harlem, all inclusive.

You have to remember, when the WTC was going down, people died trying to save them.

New Orleans wasn't cut at the jugular, it was cut at the neck.

[Carrie]

Originally Posted by XxXotic

Sorry, but you mention them being "animals" I'd like to see you lose your ENTIRE city, not just your house but the Entire city you call home, sit on a roof for a week with no food or water surrounded by a cess pool basically watching people drop dead in front of you from hunger, sickness or dehydration and see how you act. It's a desperate situation, I'd like to see how fucking calm you remained in those circumstances

I have no trouble admitting that I'd be busting into stores and EMPTY homes looking for food to feed my family.
FOOD - not big-screen tvs, dvd players, electronics that aren't going to work anyway because there's no power, trays of jewelry and rolexes...

And under NO circumstance would I lower myself to (alone or in gangs) going around terrorizing people, murdering them (unless I were defending myself or my family), and raping them.

I'm sorry, but there is NO excuse for that. Absolutely none.

[Vick]

Please see this in my previous post

"Both were terrible and in no way can be compared"

XxXotic thanks for wanting to see me lose my ENTIRE city

Guess what, we're critizing animals and you are defending them and .....

It's not getting a fucking thing done

Again I stress Not one cent will go from my pockets to ANY GENERAL NEW ORLEANS RELIEF FUND and I strongly suggest you do the same

[Weg Cory]

Originally Posted by Vick

Please see this in my previous post

"Both were terrible and in no way can be compared"

XxXotic thanks for wanting to see me lose my ENTIRE city

Guess what, we're critizing animals and you are defending them and .....

It's not getting a fucking thing done

Again I stress Not one cent will go from my pockets to ANY GENERAL NEW ORLEANS RELIEF FUND and I strongly suggest you do the same

We set up a fund. I gave a personal donation to someone down there and a donation to the fund.

Both are important IMO.

[XxXotic]

Originally Posted by Carrie

I have no trouble admitting that I'd be busting into stores and EMPTY homes looking for food to feed my family.
FOOD - not big-screen tvs, dvd players, electronics that aren't going to work anyway because there's no power, trays of jewelry and rolexes...

And under NO circumstance would I lower myself to (alone or in gangs) going around terrorizing people, murdering them (unless I were defending myself or my family), and raping them.

I'm sorry, but there is NO excuse for that. Absolutely none.

I never excused it. But I can guarantee you this, you absolutely cannot say what you would or would not do unless you're experiencing the situation yourself. dehydration, lack of food, potentially being infrcted with random virii and sitting in the sweltering (and i do mean sweltering) heat for 6 days tends to impair ones judgment. If you think otherwise I suggest you learn a little about physiology

If the only thing standing between you and a bottle of water that could potentially and most likely keep you alive, you'd kill for it. You can't deny that you would, it's a basic survival instinct and I'm fairly certain 98.3% of the people here would do the same. Sorry, but if it comes down to you, me and one bottle of water that's gonna keep one of us alive... sorry but you're probably gonna die if you even try for that water. I dont know you, I'm worried about myself and my family and if I had to kill someone to keep my family alive then I'm sorry for ya but ya gotta go.

New Orleans is lost for the most part, who the hell cares if some moron steals a TV? its not like he can plug it in and watch it, not like anyone who was actually stuck in new orleans had money to buy it from them. It most likely wound up just being left behind since evacuees aren't allowed to bring 42" plasma's on the helicopters and anyone with anything "new looking" is being detained. Insurance will cover it for the vendors, they have no way of knowing what floated away and what didnt so what's the problem? Premiums were going up regardless so you can forget that excuse....

why not, instead of keeping your head lodged in your ass you worry about the shit WORTH worrying about. Getting the people who want to be rescued and need to be rescued out of new orleans. Theres thousands of people stranded for a week in new orleans, you're worried about someone stealing some fucking nike's. could your priorities be any more out of whack?

[Weg Cory]

Originally Posted by XxXotic

I never excused it. But I can guarantee you this, you absolutely cannot say what you would or would not do unless you're experiencing the situation yourself. dehydration, lack of food, potentially being infrcted with random virii and sitting in the sweltering (and i do mean sweltering) heat for 6 days tends to impair ones judgment. If you think otherwise I suggest you learn a little about physiology

If the only thing standing between you and a bottle of water that could potentially and most likely keep you alive, you'd kill for it. You can't deny that you would, it's a basic survival instinct and I'm fairly certain 98.3% of the people here would do the same. Sorry, but if it comes down to you, me and one bottle of water that's gonna keep one of us alive... sorry but you're probably gonna die if you even try for that water. I dont know you, I'm worried about myself and my family and if I had to kill someone to keep my family alive then I'm sorry for ya but ya gotta go.

New Orleans is lost for the most part, who the hell cares if some moron steals a TV? its not like he can plug it in and watch it, not like anyone who was actually stuck in new orleans had money to buy it from them. It most likely wound up just being left behind since evacuees aren't allowed to bring 42" plasma's on the helicopters and anyone with anything "new looking" is being detained. Insurance will cover it for the vendors, they have no way of knowing what floated away and what didnt so what's the problem? Premiums were going up regardless so you can forget that excuse....

why not, instead of keeping your head lodged in your ass you worry about the shit WORTH worrying about. Getting the people who want to be rescued and need to be rescued out of new orleans. Theres thousands of people stranded for a week in new orleans, you're worried about someone stealing some fucking nike's. could your priorities be any more out of whack?

Please keep posting here.

[Vick]

Originally Posted by Weg Cory

We set up a fund. I gave a personal donation to someone down there and a donation to the fund.

Both are important IMO.

Well we disagee, I think you're well intentioned and doing what you feel is right. I can respect that (but the road to ruin is paved with good intentions)

From my perspective a helping hand to those we know, who weren't turning to the law of the jungle in a crisis situation is the way to go. I can't get behind any funds that may go to those who acted worse than savage animals

[Vick]

Originally Posted by XxXotic

New Orleans is lost for the most part, who the hell cares if some moron steals a TV?

those with a sense of decency,

It's been a long time since I knew right from wrong

Survival yeah, fuck yeah

Profiting, looting, killing and raping - that goes against any moral fiber

[SykkBoy]

Originally Posted by Vick

Well we disagee, I think you're well intentioned and doing what you feel is right. I can respect that (but the road to ruin is paved with good intentions)

From my perspective a helping hand to those we know, who weren't turning to the law of the jungle in a crisis situation is the way to go. I can't get behind any funds that may go to those who acted worse than savage animals

So, should we take help away from those who need it because the guy down the road might be one who is causing the problems?

So, do we line every one of them up against a wall and ask them if they deserve aid or not? What about people still stranded on rooftops? I doubt they are mulling swiping a couple TV's or pairs of Nikes.

I have no problems donating even if part of that may go to those who don't need it or "deserve" it if I know it can and will save those who truly need it.

While many are (justifiably) reacting to what they see and hear on the news regarding looting, murder, etc. I prefer to see the good that is coming from this: people that are helping loved ones and in some cases total strangers....sadly those moments are usually reserved for the media after they've finished covering the lawlessness...

[Vick]

Sykk - you're missing my point

Help should only go to those who should deserve it

Not a general pool

[SykkBoy]

Originally Posted by Vick

Sykk - you're missing my point

Help should only go to those who should deserve it

Not a general pool

I get the point, but also understand what can be done realistically. I agree help should only go to those who deserve it, but how do we determine who's who?

[Carrie]

Originally Posted by XxXotic

why not, instead of keeping your head lodged in your ass you worry about the shit WORTH worrying about. Getting the people who want to be rescued and need to be rescued out of new orleans. Theres thousands of people stranded for a week in new orleans, you're worried about someone stealing some fucking nike's. could your priorities be any more out of whack?

If you've read any of my posts online the past few days, you'd know that what I'm most worried about is the kids that are getting gang-raped and murdered - not the fucking nikes.
Get your head out of your own ass and stop defending these animals.

If you want to say that YOU would lower yourself to the level these animals have been operating on, that's fine, go right ahead. Do not assume that the rest of us - especially me - are just like you. I would *not* do that.

Matter of fact, I'm the kind of person where if I saw *you* doing it, I'd be forming a group to make sure you'd never do it again.

[Carrie]

Originally Posted by SykkBoy

I get the point, but also understand what can be done realistically. I agree help should only go to those who deserve it, but how do we determine who's who?

It'll be nearly impossible, unfortunately.
Even the ones in the superdome who were doing the gang-raping and murdering have now been evacuated with the innocents, so they're free to go ahead with their lives after the ones they've killed and tortured are laying dead on the concrete in there.

Heard a report on the news that the guy who raped and killed that little 7yr old boy in the Dome's freezer was hunted down and beaten to death by a group of about ten men in the Superdome.
I can only hope they got the right guy.

I've helped organize a relief drive here in my hometown (we got a lot of stuff today, yay!!) and it'll be going down to Mississippi to folks who got bused out or walked out and just dropped off and forgotten there. We've got a list of about 5 locations that have tons of refugees but no help at all. Hopefully our truck will be going out Tuesday night. We all feel that it's way too long of a delay, but it's something.

So that's one thing folks *can* do; if you don't want to contribute to a general relief fund that's okay, there are plenty of local (to Mississippi, Alabama, and Louisiana) charities and organizations down there that you can contact directly and make donations to. And you get to choose who you're helping.
There are folks all over the nation and world donating to the "big" general funds like Red Cross and Salvation Army (hell, Oprah donated $5million and Celine Dion donated $1million), there are just as many smaller, ground-zero groups/churches/etc that have people to take care of right *now* and need donations (and physical help) as well.

[SykkBoy]

Originally Posted by Carrie

There are folks all over the nation and world donating to the "big" general funds like Red Cross and Salvation Army (hell, Oprah donated $5million and Celine Dion donated $1million), there are just as many smaller, ground-zero groups/churches/etc that have people to take care of right *now* and need donations (and physical help) as well.

I 100% agree.
Everyone knows I'm a bleeding heart liberal who's spent many years in the trenches helping the homeless and less fortunate and one of the most limited yet precious commodities is time and labor. While it's easy to write a check, it also takes people to get physically involved and pitch in and help that way too. I've met some really great people through my volunteerism and have found a lot of stories that don't make the nightly news: the able bodied adults who suddenly become working homeless (there are many more of them in Las Vegas than an city official would ever admit). There are families who've gone through hardships and are merely looking for a hand up. There are families that aren't looking to be on the government dole their whole life, but just need a little help getting some food in their stomachs (and those of their children) and some adequate medical care. I've heard stories that'll break the hardest of hearts. Battered women who've spent too many years with abusive husbands and once they do leave often have no job skills and have no money to get anywhere.

So, for those who are unable to write a check, don't be afraid of getting out and gathering blankets and clothing for those in need. Don't be afraid to get involved locally. Maybe I'm just an old softy who gets this huge lift from seeing desperate people finally getting a little assistance and the big smiles on their faces. One of my good friends was homeless for over a year and after getting a little help, managed to finally get himself back on his feet and is now a productive member of society (and one of my truly most trusted friends) which might not have been possible had he not gotten a little help and was shown that he mattered.

Sorry to ramble no, but I love seeing people getting together and helping out for a common cause and I'm seeing a lot of that through all of this and only wish those stories would get more media attention than some guy looting a couple Celine Dion CDs.

[Biggy]

I'm going to make a comparison between NYC and New Orleans (and I'm a New Yorker)..

In the aftermath of the event, one was handled a lot better than the other. What was so tragic about NO is in the direct AFTERMATH of New Orleans, the situation was handled ypoorly. Its so tragic tha many of the atrocities concerning lack of food, medical supplies, violence, etc. could have been prevented with smarter people around.

Throw away what would have happened if we had put terrorism as a higher threat before 9/11. Thats in the same boat as the stuff about the levy system only being able to handle a cat 3. I am talking specifically about direct response immediately after. Thats what makes this very tragic IMO, that some of it could have been prevented.

[XxXotic]

Originally Posted by Vick

those with a sense of decency,

It's been a long time since I knew right from wrong

Survival yeah, fuck yeah

Profiting, looting, killing and raping - that goes against any moral fiber

it goes against my moral fiber too, but in the seriousness of the situation, you SERIOUSLY have your priorities way out of whack. Fact still remains, that in survival of the fittest, strong survive. No one likes to hear it, no one likes to see it first hand but it is indeed a fact of life.

I'm not excusing it, nor do I think it's ok. I think had you ACTUALLY read anything I've said thusfar you'd understand the point I was trying to make. I know, I'm an idiot who looks at things from BOTH SIDES. Sorry If I can *understand* what people are going through. Sorry If I'm educated and know what types of effect stress has on the human mind and body where apparantly you don't.

Profiting? how so? Are they down at the local starbucks ebaying the plasma tv's they stole? are you fucking kidding me? Everyone in new orleans pretty much just lost EVERYTHING they own, i doubt there's much trading and selling going on in the city. As a matter of fact, I'm POSITIVE there isn't any. Another bullshit excuse to just whine and bitch and not actually do anything about it.

yes, survival.. the basic instinct humans have to keep on living. When you're desperate enough you can't begin to imagine the things you'll do to stay alive. If you're not willing to kill someone in order to save your own life, as immoral and sick as it is and sounds then I'm sorry but you probably deserve to die. Everyone has the basic instinct to want to live, if you don't then you shouldn't really be here anyway.

I'm sorry if you're too busy, or even stupid to look at things from both sides of the coin. When you're *stranded* somewhere, with what seems like no hope and no help in sight, feeling abandoned by your government and the people who could be helping you, it makes for a DESPERATE situation. Add to that no food, no water, no medicines, no contact with loved ones, 110° sweltering heat and it just makes people do crazy shit.

Besides, murders are nothing new in New Orleans. I'd be willing to wager on a normal new orleans day, more people get shot and raped then what's happened during the aftermath. New Orleans at one point was #1 per capita for murder. It's not like it was all rainbows and unicorns before the hurricane ya know?

Just stop and *think* for a minute.... if you dont get it, stop to *think* some more. I know this may seem like a large task to conquer, but I have faith in you

[XxXotic]

Originally Posted by Carrie

If you've read any of my posts online the past few days, you'd know that what I'm most worried about is the kids that are getting gang-raped and murdered - not the fucking nikes.
Get your head out of your own ass and stop defending these animals.

If you want to say that YOU would lower yourself to the level these animals have been operating on, that's fine, go right ahead. Do not assume that the rest of us - especially me - are just like you. I would *not* do that.

Matter of fact, I'm the kind of person where if I saw *you* doing it, I'd be forming a group to make sure you'd never do it again.

you're obviously misreading shit. Not once have I defended anybody, i'm just trying to make your ignorant ass see BOTH side of the situation.

and sorry, but you're a lying sack of shit. if it came down to feeding your child and keeping him alive over someone u dont know trying to steal the food from yer kids mouth i'd guarantee you'd fight to the death for it. Say you wouldnt and I'll call you a lying sack of shit again.

idiot

[Vick]

Originally Posted by XxXotic

it goes against my moral fiber too, but in the seriousness of the situation, you SERIOUSLY have your priorities way out of whack. Fact still remains, that in survival of the fittest, strong survive. No one likes to hear it, no one likes to see it first hand but it is indeed a fact of life.

I'm not excusing it, nor do I think it's ok. I think had you ACTUALLY read anything I've said thusfar you'd understand the point I was trying to make. I know, I'm an idiot who looks at things from BOTH SIDES. Sorry If I can *understand* what people are going through. Sorry If I'm educated and know what types of effect stress has on the human mind and body where apparantly you don't.

Profiting? how so? Are they down at the local starbucks ebaying the plasma tv's they stole? are you fucking kidding me? Everyone in new orleans pretty much just lost EVERYTHING they own, i doubt there's much trading and selling going on in the city. As a matter of fact, I'm POSITIVE there isn't any. Another bullshit excuse to just whine and bitch and not actually do anything about it.

yes, survival.. the basic instinct humans have to keep on living. When you're desperate enough you can't begin to imagine the things you'll do to stay alive. If you're not willing to kill someone in order to save your own life, as immoral and sick as it is and sounds then I'm sorry but you probably deserve to die. Everyone has the basic instinct to want to live, if you don't then you shouldn't really be here anyway.

I'm sorry if you're too busy, or even stupid to look at things from both sides of the coin. When you're *stranded* somewhere, with what seems like no hope and no help in sight, feeling abandoned by your government and the people who could be helping you, it makes for a DESPERATE situation. Add to that no food, no water, no medicines, no contact with loved ones, 110° sweltering heat and it just makes people do crazy shit.

Besides, murders are nothing new in New Orleans. I'd be willing to wager on a normal new orleans day, more people get shot and raped then what's happened during the aftermath. New Orleans at one point was #1 per capita for murder. It's not like it was all rainbows and unicorns before the hurricane ya know?

Just stop and *think* for a minute.... if you dont get it, stop to *think* some more. I know this may seem like a large task to conquer, but I have faith in you

Well we have reached a point in the road were we disagree, since your sarcasm is so becoming I'll leave you to it

While you have some points survival has nothing to do with looting, murder (unless in comes down to the last rations or other self preservation), rape or pillaging

My point still stands that I can't get behind any relief effort that may include funds or supplies to animals

However I've inquired how to lend a hand on a personal level to someone that could use it

and I will never understand (no matter how you try to explain it) how anything can turn to looting, murder, rape or pillaging in a crisis situation
Guess that's because I wouldn't do it and can't see how anyone could

It's very easy for us all to sit here and say we'd do this or do that but we weren't there


One thing I did find amusing but I haven't posted yet, while looters were stealing beer and smokes (2 very needed supplies) why didn't they break into pharmacies and take the best Doctor Dope?
Ah ha ha ha ha

[XxXotic]

Originally Posted by Vick

Well we have reached a point in the road were we disagree, since your sarcasm is so becoming I'll leave you to it

While you have some points survival has nothing to do with looting, murder (unless in comes down to the last rations or other self preservation), rape or pillaging

My point still stands that I can't get behind any relief effort that may include funds or supplies to animals

However I've inquired how to lend a hand on a personal level to someone that could use it

and I will never understand (no matter how you try to explain it) how anything can turn to looting, murder, rape or pillaging in a crisis situation
Guess that's because I wouldn't do it and can't see how anyone could

It's very easy for us all to sit here and say we'd do this or do that but we weren't there


One thing I did find amusing but I haven't posted yet, while looters were stealing beer and smokes (2 very needed supplies) why didn't they break into pharmacies and take the best Doctor Dope?
Ah ha ha ha ha

if you want to help someone specific, see my sticky thread there are people in our own industry who need it. And I'm happy to hear you've found ANYTHING amusing in the new orleans situation. There's nothing "amusing" about any of it, once you realize that you may view things a bit differently.

I can only hope and pray you and your family never has to deal with anything like this. I'd hate to see you drop dead in the streets because your moral standards are too high to allow you to do what you need to do to survive. Or even worse, your wife or kids dying because of your ignorance and lack of effort (if you even have a wife and kids)

[Vick]

XxXotic you have an unusually high comprehension level .... or not

praying is for the superstitious

Out of curosity are you under 35 years of age?

Good rule of thumb
A man at 20 who is not a liberal has no heart, a man at 40 who is not a conserative has no brain

[Weg Cory]

If people only donated to those they knew, how would donations accumulate? I happen to know some people involved, but not everyone does.

Are they to wait for a telethon whereas little black kids plead a case for themselves and ask to be financially adopted for the same cost of a cup of coffee?

I don't politicize "life" per se, I just do what I can to help. At the end of the day, more of the money will make it to those who need it. Fact is, if you go to New Orleans, I guarantee most of the people are good. You can't believe everything you see on TV.

Funny thing, I asked Billy on the phone what he thought of the images of that cop holding DVDs. He said, "How does everyone know he didn't just take them from a looter?"

He is right. I thought the same thing he said, but you have to understand that many people allowed that image to paint a picture of the situation.

I love photography, as many of you know. I am intrigued by the way I can use my camera to change perspective: simple lense changes or light changes can alter the perspective of the picture. Photojournalist understand this concept and use it advantageously.

[XxXotic]

Originally Posted by Vick

XxXotic you have an unusually high comprehension level .... or not

praying is for the superstitious

Out of curosity are you under 35 years of age?

Good rule of thumb
A man at 20 who is not a liberal has no heart, a man at 40 who is not a conserative has no brain

I have an extremely high comprehension level. I've never been the type to look at things from one perspective. You'll never understand the full story unless you can manage to look past the bullshit and bias and see ALL sides of the situation. I like to understand, it's part of my natural curiosity about things.

I'm 30 years old and I'm extremely liberal in most cases so what's that make me? half hearted and half brained?

[mikeyddddd]

Originally Posted by Weg Cory

Funny thing, I asked Billy on the phone what he thought of the images of that cop holding DVDs. He said, "How does everyone know he didn't just take them from a looter?"

Ask him about the female officers shopping for shoes.

[pushpills]

The dumbest thing you can do is take a hardline position on something you really don't know anything about. You'll see it in every natural disaster. Smart people know better, even if you're kinda right, you're wrong. If your opinion makes sense, shout it 3 months later. See my "looter" post for example. I knew exactly what would be posted in response.... I didn't care because those people have brains and will re-read what was pointed out.

[Weg Cory]

Originally Posted by mikeyddddd

Ask him about the female officers shopping for shoes.

This is important?

What were they supposed to wear?

It was a flood. They need shoes. They took extra? I don't care. I try to stray away from the path of the righteous.

[Dravyk]

Not sure about this whole female officer shoe shopping/looting thing ....

So I have one question that will solve it all (well the answer to it will)

Were they taking sneaks and boots? Or strapless shoes with sequences and stiletto heels?

[Weg Cory]

Originally Posted by Dravyk

Not sure about this whole female officer shoe shopping/looting thing ....

So I have one question that will solve it all (well the answer to it will)

Were they taking sneaks and boots? Or strapless shoes with sequences and stiletto heels?

Answering this is the second line of interogation. However, I am still at the first line which is "who gives a damn about it."

Look at everything going on. So worst case scenario is that NOPD was left with no help, lost their lives, and got a few pairs of free shoes.

I am ok with the shoes.

[XxXotic]

it never ceases to amaze me, people are dropping dead in the streets and we're debating stolen shoes and DVD's... are you kidding me?

mind boggling

[MorganGrayson]

I've been sitting here debating whether or not I even want to get involved in the post. I guess I'll find out when and if I see it in the thread.

#1. Would I kill to protect my family?
Yes. In less than a heartbeat.

#2. Would I steal food, water, medicine and other supplies from a store or abandoned "something" for my family?
Yes. I would also steal them for my "Tribe." (I read a great article this morning about strangers in the Quarter banding together to form "Tribes" to survive, with shared tasks and all sorts of great things that make you have faith in people again.) If my home was left standing, I'd take in people. Even if I had no home, forming a "Tribe" is a very sensible way to deal with a crisis.

#3. (The difficult one.) Would I steal food *from* other people for my family?
Sitting here in my air conditioned living room, tapping on my computer, I want to say "no." I really want to. However, there happens to be a photograph of my oldest daughter framed and sitting on my computer. Whose life do I pick...a stranger's...or hers? I pick hers.

#4. Would I contribute to a "general fund"?
No. San Diego County already got the shaft over that one a couple of years ago during the fires. Lives were lost, homes, neighborhoods and one entire small town burned to the ground. People were encouraged to donate to the Red Cross and donate they did...only to find out later that their donations went into the "general fund" because they weren't specified on the check as being for the Fire Victims. So the money intended to go to their neighbors went into *all* work the Red Cross did...even if it was on the other side of the world. The head of the Red Cross lost her job and there was some sort of scandal. I'll never give to a "general fund" again, nor am I as eager to donate to "charities" as I once was - not without knowing exactly how much of the money actually goes to where it was intended to go and how much is eaten by "administrative costs." (I dontated to Chris and Red's fund for WT and Osiris. I know *exactly* where *all* the money is going.)

#5. How much would I personally "de-evolve" in a situation like the one in NO?
I'm usually pretty good in a crisis but I have no idea what I'd become in that *big* a crisis. I know what the historical precedents are, though. I know to what other perfectly nice, perfectly sane people have been reduced in horrific conditions. I don't think I'm any better than they are. To sit here in my comfortable living room and say that I am would be highly presumptive.

[Dravyk]

Originally Posted by Weg Cory

Answering this is the second line of interogation. However, I am still at the first line which is "who gives a damn about it."

Look at everything going on. So worst case scenario is that NOPD was left with no help, lost their lives, and got a few pairs of free shoes.

I am ok with the shoes.

I overall agree with you, Cory.

It was when you yourself started to assume maybe they needed the shoes and felt you needed to say that ... and became that was IMHO just as bad as the person assuming maybe they had looted them, well that was when I put my two cents in. Since no one got my undertone about assumptions ... well, nevermind, let's just skip it.

Again, agreed, this particular conversation is not very important in terms of the big picture.

[Carrie]

Well apparently the "big picture" here is that it's okay to loot, pillage, steal... because they can't plug in the TVs and use them anyway, so who cares?

Damn, I think the folks who were trying to get out of the city and were held up at roadblocks by gangs with guns taking all of their cash, jewelry, and worthful belongings would care... but I'm just an idiot.

I guess the folks who are still holed up in their homes trying to survive on what little food they have left would care when those looters come busting through the door stealing everything they have... but I'm just an idiot.

I guess the folks who could have been saved from drowning by police officers would care if they knew those officers were busy stocking up on shoes at the local Wal-Mart... but I'm just an idiot.

And I just LOVE how the person proclaiming me to be an idiot for pointing these things out keeps trying to tell us all that we'd do the exact same thing... apparently including the raping and murdering.

I'm sorry... if I was in that situation, forcing sex on someone would be the last fucking thing on my mind. I honestly believe that I could be shoved in a bunker with Vick, Nick, MikeAI, Sare, and even hornier-than-god Serge, and still not have to worry about any of them gang-raping me or my kids. We might come down to it when the food ran low, but there would be no raping going on.
But then again... I'm just an idiot.

(Where the fuck is that rolling eyes smiley?)

[Sin]

Originally Posted by Carrie

I wasn't comparing homes to buildings... I was thinking more on the scale of "disaster to disaster". Hopefully this one won't come close to the 3,000 or so we lost back on 9/11, but you never know.

And yeah, I'm generalizing a bit, but it's more than just "a few". Gangs in the streets, gangs in the Dome, hell even the police are looting. It's some major differential shift in thinking. You didn't see this kind of thing on 9/11, and if you want "like kind" disaster, you didn't see it after the tsunami either. (I did hear of some people trying to lure away kids to sell them though, that's the only bad thing I heard.)

I'm not sure how "slut" plays into this thread, the term seems somewhat out of place, for both the subject at hand, and that this is an adult board... we're all sluts!

Anyways, here's my response to this subject, (my first reply at least)

----With 9-11 the people were not stranded and stuck there. I watched the news, hundreds of thousands of people ran, and then walked, for their lives. They did so because they could. With Katrina, (And I'm not talking about prior the hurricane hit, I'll get to that in a minute) once the hurricane had hit, the disaster was not over... in fact, the hurricane itself has been probably the least damaging aspect of this whole thing. The two are incomparable, so I think it is silly to even try. With 9/11, there was still a hierarchy, people still had someone in charge, NYPD, the Fire Dept, Search & Rescue workers, the Gov't was on the issue & the president made a statement within a matter of hours. With Katrina, it took about 2 days before Bush decided to so much as acknowledge what was going on, and by that point it was too late.

Lets ignore the news for a minute, ignore the color of these people's skin, ignore their location, lets take just a couple minutes & acknowledge them as fellow human beings. Sit and think for a minute, if that were you down there. Don't give me the "coulda woulda shoulda evacuated" either... I'll use Osiris & WT as an example. They didn't have much choice about staying down there, their car was in the shop. Or maybe you are an employee in a hospital, whatever scenario suits your fancy. Meanwhile, basically everybody else has evacuated... including the officials who usually keep things in order. Hurricane hits, hopes lift.. "Yay I survived!" and the survivors prepare for the process of rebuilding their lives to start... Then all of a sudden they get told they're not allowed to leave the Superdome, it isn't safe. Levees have broken, and suddenly their hopes are drowned under flooding waters. Fine, they have to stay, they're disappointed & now there's 2 disasters to contend with when they finally get out of there. Picture's looking pretty bleak. Word starts up that evacuation is underway though, but the people in the Superdome however, are safe for the time being & rescue is being performed on those who are still in imminent danger of drowning from the flooding which is still occurring in this timeline. Meanwhile, amongst the hordes of innocents (and yes I believe at this point there were hordes of innocents) there is looting going on. Two types of looters in my opinion, the sensible ones & the stupid ones... the sensible looters are the ones who go for things like food & water, not drugs alcohol & guns. (those are the stupid looters) Chances are, a good chunk of the stupid looters were law abiding citizens until they figured there were no laws to abide because anybody who would've enforced any laws, had already left the city. Like kids in a candy store when the store clerk's back is turned.

Now you're an innocent amongst the many, people are getting hungrier, food is increasingly scarcer, water is all around you but nearly none of it is drinkable. Better grab a gun to protect yourself from that other crazy over there with his gun, with no food...by now all you're doing is trying to survive. When will they be able to evacuate you & all of your family? Right now they're still too busy rescuing people off rooftops. Its going to be a while. If you scarf down your food & water, then the risk of being shot or mugged or beaten for it is decreased because its no longer visibly in your hands. But who knows how long it'll be before you get any more food or more importantly, water... while you're waiting to be rescued? There's still no supplies coming in, everybody's still preoccupied with getting the hundreds of people off rooftops etc.

All it takes is one... one guy to fire shot(s) at the helicopter... more than likely a drug addict that was in dire need of a fix, or maybe he'd gotten a fix & the helicopter wasn't really a helicopter in his mind but some giant spaceship filled with aliens, armed aliens, come to wage war on Earth. (You never know with drug addicts) All of a sudden, all rescue efforts are aborted & now the few National Guard and NOPD who are there in the city are told Martial law is in effect. You've survived the hurricane, the flood, only to have guns aimed in your face when all you were doing was trying to survive. Maybe you're in a different part of the city than where the shots were fired at the helicopter, and have no idea what happened... because you have no newspapers, no television, no electricity, no internet... no way of knowing what is happening in the other parts of your own town. Just, out of nowhere rescue is aborted & the guns are on you?

Well, as if that wasn't hard enough of an ordeal to go through, lets toss in the news of another hurricane brewing in the atlantic, and it already has a name, "Leo"

---Now I agree most wholeheartedly that the situation down there is atrocious, but if you think I'm pulling this out of my ass, you're dead wrong. I've monitored this thing from Monday all through this past week. No, my sources are not the news.

http://www.wwltv.com/forums/ --If you go there, you'll see a forum created that's titled "Hurricane Katrina" --It is FULL (and that's an understatement) of friends, family, etc etc of the people who are IN & AROUND the New Orleans area, through most of the week about 80% of it was questions "Help me find this person" and "Any word on this area" ...etc etc. I utilized it myself to find out information about the area where Osiris & WT live, and what kind of damage it had sustained. If it had not been for the people on that forum who kept on trying & trying & trying & trying & trying to reach their loved ones by cell phone, and finally managed to get through, I wouldn't have known what type of shape Hammond was in. The reports in there, are first hand reports on the damages sustained, by people in that area, & other areas.

http://ods.org:8003/fema --If you throw that into your media player, you can listen live to the National Guard communications. In the past week, you all really do not want to know what I have heard. Some of the more mild things I have heard, is listening to Guards quit, say that they can't do this anymore & give up. Another one in Hammond had a homeowner at gunpoint, and was requesting backup. The homeowner had done nothing more than step outside of his own house, past the curfew. As an American, would you tolerate having guns in your face simply for opening your door & stepping onto your front porch? Land of the free babe, land of the free... (listening right now, hearing a lot of tired voices, and it sounds like there's some females on the lines for encouragement, because every so often a woman's voice will come through saying "You guys are doing a great job, keep up the good work" etc.)

http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/ -- Has links to a live streaming webcam in the core of the New Orleans area, and yes it has been online this past week. That's a journal of the guys over at DirectNic, they chose to stay and keep their servers running. They've been blogging since before the hurricane hit. If you go back to the beginning & read through, it paints a frighteningly detailed picture of the reality of what has been going on down in NOLA that the news won't show you. Just yesterday 2 officers committed suicide. Osiris told me today that word was another officer had done the same, in his area.

And unfortunately, this is just the New Orleans area, not the other areas that were hit by the hurricane... I have another friend that I spoke to last night, she has a 6 month old baby and today is her 1 yr anniversary, she's completely in shock, they have no food, no water, nothing is coming into those areas because the situation in NOLA got so bad, Gas is being siphoned by everybody, she saw a woman shoot a guy dead for trying to siphon gas from her car, unfortunately she's in so much shock that she can't wrap her mind around the concept of doing anything to help herself. They supposedly can't leave the area, and refuse to try, but staying there is basically killing them because they have no food & no gas to go anywhere to get food, because gas is rationed down to $5 a person and $5 gas doesn't get them very far.

This is a fucking huge post,and it doesn't even -begin- to cover what's been going on the past week.

As far as help going to those who deserve it, I'm undecided. I think there's a lot of bad people yes, I think there's a lot of good people who were driven to do bad things, and I also think there's a lot of good people, in those thousands that they finally got out of the city. Unfortunately, it is going to be pretty much impossible to sort them out, unless the crowds of witnesses will point out the 'bad guys' who did the raping & beating. This is unlikely though.... especially if once the lot of them gets out of the city, they all decide it was racially oriented.

The whole overall situation is not even close to being 'over' ...not by a long shot. More post coming after reboot lol

[PornoDoggy]

I have read this thread.

I have yet to read anything remotley resembling a defense of the actions of child abusers, murderers, rapists, mother-rapers, father-stabbers, or father-rapers in this thread. There is a real difference between saying "under these circumstances a lot of people might steal" and justifying rape or murder.

I suspect that when when the dust settles - or the water drains - you will find that reports of such activities have been greatly exxaggerated. These kinds of stories tend to do that, and they get spread by the frequent repitition of them by those who get their panties in a knot when they hear them.

I am not saying nothing bad happened. I know what mobs can do; I've seen it with my own eyes. I am saying that time and time again I have seen reports of this sort blown all out of proportion.

I have personally been on the scene of fires where firefighters and law enforcement officials have collected some "evidence" (guns, jewellry, a quarter-pound of pot [I suggested that the affected individual NOT put that on his insurance claim], cash, and who the fuck knows what else) that didn't make it into official channels. I watched cops, National Guardsmen and two Red Cross officials get bust for looting flooded homes they were supposed to be protecting.

BTW - a situation like this MIGHT change an honest person into a thief. I doubt there is any way it would change a reasonably decent person into a rapist.

[Sin]

Originally Posted by MorganGrayson

I've been sitting here debating whether or not I even want to get involved in the post. I guess I'll find out when and if I see it in the thread.

#1. Would I kill to protect my family?
Yes. In less than a heartbeat.

#2. Would I steal food, water, medicine and other supplies from a store or abandoned "something" for my family?
Yes. I would also steal them for my "Tribe." (I read a great article this morning about strangers in the Quarter banding together to form "Tribes" to survive, with shared tasks and all sorts of great things that make you have faith in people again.) If my home was left standing, I'd take in people. Even if I had no home, forming a "Tribe" is a very sensible way to deal with a crisis.

#3. (The difficult one.) Would I steal food *from* other people for my family?
Sitting here in my air conditioned living room, tapping on my computer, I want to say "no." I really want to. However, there happens to be a photograph of my oldest daughter framed and sitting on my computer. Whose life do I pick...a stranger's...or hers? I pick hers.

#4. Would I contribute to a "general fund"?
No. San Diego County already got the shaft over that one a couple of years ago during the fires. Lives were lost, homes, neighborhoods and one entire small town burned to the ground. People were encouraged to donate to the Red Cross and donate they did...only to find out later that their donations went into the "general fund" because they weren't specified on the check as being for the Fire Victims. So the money intended to go to their neighbors went into *all* work the Red Cross did...even if it was on the other side of the world. The head of the Red Cross lost her job and there was some sort of scandal. I'll never give to a "general fund" again, nor am I as eager to donate to "charities" as I once was - not without knowing exactly how much of the money actually goes to where it was intended to go and how much is eaten by "administrative costs." (I dontated to Chris and Red's fund for WT and Osiris. I know *exactly* where *all* the money is going.)

#5. How much would I personally "de-evolve" in a situation like the one in NO?
I'm usually pretty good in a crisis but I have no idea what I'd become in that *big* a crisis. I know what the historical precedents are, though. I know to what other perfectly nice, perfectly sane people have been reduced in horrific conditions. I don't think I'm any better than they are. To sit here in my comfortable living room and say that I am would be highly presumptive.

I think I love you!

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by MorganGrayson

I've been sitting here debating whether or not I even want to get involved in the post. I guess I'll find out when and if I see it in the thread.

#1. Would I kill to protect my family?
Yes. In less than a heartbeat.

#2. Would I steal food, water, medicine and other supplies from a store or abandoned "something" for my family?
Yes. I would also steal them for my "Tribe." (I read a great article this morning about strangers in the Quarter banding together to form "Tribes" to survive, with shared tasks and all sorts of great things that make you have faith in people again.) If my home was left standing, I'd take in people. Even if I had no home, forming a "Tribe" is a very sensible way to deal with a crisis.

#3. (The difficult one.) Would I steal food *from* other people for my family?
Sitting here in my air conditioned living room, tapping on my computer, I want to say "no." I really want to. However, there happens to be a photograph of my oldest daughter framed and sitting on my computer. Whose life do I pick...a stranger's...or hers? I pick hers.

#4. Would I contribute to a "general fund"?
No. San Diego County already got the shaft over that one a couple of years ago during the fires. Lives were lost, homes, neighborhoods and one entire small town burned to the ground. People were encouraged to donate to the Red Cross and donate they did...only to find out later that their donations went into the "general fund" because they weren't specified on the check as being for the Fire Victims. So the money intended to go to their neighbors went into *all* work the Red Cross did...even if it was on the other side of the world. The head of the Red Cross lost her job and there was some sort of scandal. I'll never give to a "general fund" again, nor am I as eager to donate to "charities" as I once was - not without knowing exactly how much of the money actually goes to where it was intended to go and how much is eaten by "administrative costs." (I dontated to Chris and Red's fund for WT and Osiris. I know *exactly* where *all* the money is going.)

#5. How much would I personally "de-evolve" in a situation like the one in NO?
I'm usually pretty good in a crisis but I have no idea what I'd become in that *big* a crisis. I know what the historical precedents are, though. I know to what other perfectly nice, perfectly sane people have been reduced in horrific conditions. I don't think I'm any better than they are. To sit here in my comfortable living room and say that I am would be highly presumptive.

Hurricane or not..

What if you'd do 3 out of 5 just for the hell of it ?

Or cause you can?

;-)))

[XxXotic]

Originally Posted by Carrie

And I just LOVE how the person proclaiming me to be an idiot for pointing these things out keeps trying to tell us all that we'd do the exact same thing... apparently including the raping and murdering.

You ARE an idiot. Don't be mad because I'm stating the obvious. I can compile a list of my points that you're apparantly too stupid to comprehend. I NEVER said anyone would rape, murder, or even loot. what I DID say, was that you CANNOT say you would or would not do those things in that situation.

Aparrantly you're also either too ignorant or again, too stupid to realize in a situation as such, "rational thinking" takes a back seat to the basic instinct to survive. Now I'm sure, as you've done so eloquently already, you will decide to try to put words in my mouth by saying i'm now advocating that raping and robbing people are survival instincts, so allow me to nip it in the bud. I'm not. In ANY crisis situation of this magnitude there will ALWAYS be predatory people looking to take advantage of it. This crisis being in New Orleans (not known as a crime-free city anyway) makes the situation potentially more explosive then say, Hartford Connecticut. It's bound to happen though very unfortunate

If you knew ANYTHING about New Orleans, you'd know the 9th ward is one of the most ghetto areas of NOLA, if not the worst ghetto in the city, probably in the entire southeast region as well. Magnolia projects (the nolia), Calliope projects... where the majority of New Orleans rappers come out of (the shit they rap about really does go on down here) aren't exactly resort destinations and already have an absurdly high crime rate to begin with. Like I said, this shit would STILL be going on if Katrina didn't hit. Just the fact that 5,000 news organzations are now focused on the city people get to see what most of New Orleans is ACTUALLY like. 90% of the world has only ever seen the French Quarter. The FQ comprises maybe 5% of the city, the rest is pretty fuckin shitty. You're apprantly one of those people.

So again, so we're clear. I'm NOT condoning anything they're doing, I'm not excusing it nor am I defending it. I'm just saying, until your ignorant ass is stuck on a roof for what will be 7 days now with no food or water, in 105° + degree heat, surrounded by dead, floating bodies, human waste and all types of bacteria in 6' of water, you CANNOT say you wouldn't do the same thing.

You can't. PERIOD You may like to THINK you wouldn't, but you most assuredly cannot say for certain you wouldn't. Sorry

[Sin]

Bottom line, nobody can say for sure how they would react to the traumas that the people of New ORleans & other areas affected by the hurricane have gone through. I'm going to focus on just NOLA though, because the hurricane was just the beginning (and by now in my opinion one of the smallest) of their problems

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by Sin

I'm not sure how "slut" plays into this thread, the term seems somewhat out of place, for both the subject at hand, and that this is an adult board... we're all sluts!

It is a reference to Saturday Night Live back in the day. Akroyd and Curtin did a thing called "point-Counterpoint" where they would debate an issue. Akroyd often began his argument with "Jane, you ignorant slut"

[PornoDoggy]

It is a reference to Saturday Night Live back in the day.

Does having to explain that make you feel as old as it does me?

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by PornoDoggy

Does having to explain that make you feel as old as it does me?

Quite

[Biggy]

Originally Posted by Vick

Good rule of thumb
A man at 20 who is not a liberal has no heart, a man at 40 who is not a conserative has no brain

Thats a great line, Vick How is everything over there?

[Dravyk]

Remembering when Saturday Nite Live actually didn't suck total ass is enough to label one as old.

[Carrie]

For Christ's sake. You don't even realize when you're contradicting yourself. You don't even realize when you are condoning the actions of others by excusing them or making excuses *for* them. I'm starting to wonder if you even know what "contradiction" and "condoning" mean.

First you start out by excusing them because of the situation they're in. Then when that doesn't work you try excusing it by saying they can't use it, so who cares anyway. Then when that doesn't work you try excusing them by saying they've always been like that, it's a bad part of the town. I mean for god's sake man, give it up.

Keep repeating yourself and chanting how we'd all sink to that level, and keep making excuses for how the animals (oh look, I said it again) acted. Maybe if you say it often enough you won't feel so guilty about knowing *you'd* quickly act the same way.

The sandbox is all yours. Have fun.

[Hell Puppy]

I gotta admit, if i went a couple of days without food and couldn't walk anywhere without stepping in dooky, I might get mean.

[Vick]

Originally Posted by Biggy

Thats a great line, Vick How is everything over there?

Doing well Biggy, how about yourself?

The line is not mine and I forget who it came from

Last night I received a phone call about performing/doing a benefit for the 400 people that will be coming here to the DC armory (I didn't even know about it until I got the phone call) from New Orleans

Took me about 2 seconds to say yes