Softcore and NonNude Sites

Dravyk · 03-30-2005

Probably a dumb set of questions. Probably I should know this. I don't. I don't get it at all. So please, seriously, explain this to me. (As this is Oprano, I don't expect a ton of bullshit from non-nude site owners telling me how they have massive conversions that are "off da hook, dawg, yo-yo" either! Unless you can prove it!)

Ok, first and foremost, I assume and I would think the average porn surfer would assume that if you go into a paysite, you are going to get hardcore inside. (Maybe this assumption is the problem, dunno. If it is, explain to me how this is so.)

So if you go into a non-nude amateur site and you-the-surfer do not know it's a non-nude site, one would expect to at least see nudity. (That is unless somewhere it says on the tour, "this is a non-nude site".)

Take it a step further, there are a lot of sites out there where there's nudity, but again, from experience, from being in paysites over the years, you-the-surfer would expect to see more than "pink", you'd expect something with dildos, some kind of hardcore.

As MikeAI has done with all of his amateur sites (which have had the models totally naked, and either they or other content inside having hardcore in it), having tours where the amateur model is not naked doesn't mean they aren't naked inside. Again, using tours Mike had done for nearly a decade, once the surfer pays, there inside is what they paid for and came to expect, nudity and hardcore.

So ... a) how do the softcore model sites convert past the trial to the month (let's not even go into monthly) and b) even more-so, how do these non-nude sites manage to convert?

Note, I went to one program that does non-nude sites, saw on the webmaster side which were which, looked at the tours for the various sites, only one tour listed said on the outside that there was no nudity inside (in one-point text amid a bunch of other small text), none of the others said squat.

So how's the surfer to know? Is the expectation incorrect to think there is nudity in these? And, as asked before, how can they even convert past trial let alone monthly? Young, pretty, exclusive content aside, it seems to me these sites don't deliver the expectation of the purchaser. I don't get it.

Cleo · 03-30-2005

Non-nude is often a key phrase for pedophiles looking for what pedophiles go looking for.

Other then that I have no idea since I sell porn.

Victoria’s Secrets web site has nice non-nude models to look at and you don't even have to pay.

Nickatilynx · 03-30-2005

Quote:

Originally posted by Cleo@Mar 30 2005, 06:39 PM
Non-nude is often a key phrase for pedophiles looking for what pedophiles go looking for.

Other then that I have no idea since I sell porn.

Victoria’s Secrets web site has nice non-nude models to look at and you don't even have to pay.

I agree with Cleo.

Hence why I've never touched it.

It is pretty much the only area where I have morals.

Stephen · 03-30-2005

Quote:

Originally posted by Cleo@Mar 30 2005, 06:39 PM
Other then that I have no idea since I sell porn.

I don't sell porn, I sell adult entertainment - and focus more so as time goes on.

My wife's site currently features about a 50/50 mix of non-nude "fun" photos (her walking along the beach, wearing jeans and a sweatshirt - or a short skirt - for example), and the other half "nude" or partially nude photos.

For a personality based site, this "personality" is a vital ingredient.

There are POV video clips of her masturbating, sucking my dick, some straight sex as well.

It's all about the balance between "knowing the girl next door" and "knowing how the girl next door fucks" that's important. Heck, there's even footage with Internext bondage performers, and blowjobs @ the Phoenix Forum.

For "typical" adult sites, however, this is likely a bad approach, since you do not likely have the exclusive, continued cooperation of your models.

But you know, Harry, my girl gets away with it

Cleo · 03-30-2005

We do this with the tranny site that I run, but like your site it is in addition to the nekkid stuff.

Dravyk is talking about non-nude sites, not nude sites that also have non-nude photos.

cj · 03-30-2005

Dravyk, put that bag of worms away damn it

I think the biggest thing with your post is that you are thinking like a pornographer ... a non nude site is not a porn site ... its a site about a person who is attractive. in the same way that music clips aren't porn even though they sell sex .........

in my definition there is 2 types of non nude sites ... there's the ones that are really just KP sites that use the non nude loop hole, then there's sites that are just not porn sites which sell models who just aren't nude and are never intended to be ...

example .... http://www.imogenbailey.com

are you expecting to find hardcore porn inside? did I mention anywhere 'no hardcore porn inside' or 'no nudity inside'?

as pornographers, we forget there's a whole world out there that doesn't even think about porn ....

Stephen · 03-30-2005

Quote:

Originally posted by cj@Mar 30 2005, 08:33 PM
as pornographers, we forget there's a whole world out there that doesn't even think about porn ....

Right On

Dravyk · 03-31-2005

Ok, ok ... Apparently there are many definitions of things here ... (and natch, none being what I was thinking at the time, hehe)

So far we've had mention of everything from near CP to non-porn at all sites.

As to the reason I am thinking as a pornographer, is because I was looking at a sponsor program that has softcore porn sites and non-nude sites, all aimed at the adult webmaster.

The fact that non-nude in terms of personality sites that are non-adult has come up is still something I really didn't know about before so hey, I'm learning something new and that is always cool.

In either case, I have yet to have anyone actually talk about why I brought this up in the first place: conversions after initial sale. Also the same question about softcore porn amateur sites has been totally missed with all of the focus having gone towards the non-nudes. So ... let's try again.

How are conversions on non-nude amateur sites and on amateur sites that only offer softcore???

Hi Stephen! Yes I can imagine your lovely lady can get away with it.

MaDalton · 03-31-2005

i have customers on www.lovelyvanessa.com that write poems for her or write emails she should stay away from doing hardcore because no one would be allowed to touch her beauty. so there surely is more than just porn out there that can be monetized.

Cleo · 03-31-2005

I'm nude right now

BillPMB · 03-31-2005

Quote:

Originally posted by Cleo@Mar 31 2005, 04:51 AM
I'm nude right now

Prove it.

NN non KP sites definately have to have a strong personality to sell. More of a fan site than anything else. Basically the next step up from a successful personal blog or a "premium" offering from a blogger.

Put a fancy wrapper on it and it becomes a paysite that needs a shitload of personal attention from the personality to be viable or from a cast of creative writers and photographers / videographers.

These surfers likely voted for Bush

Mike AI · 03-31-2005

Bill don't kid yourself, people who like hardcore porn also voted for Bush!

Cleo · 03-31-2005

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike AI@Mar 31 2005, 10:35 AM
Bill don't kid yourself, people who like hardcore porn also voted for Bush!

It's true, 100% voted for Bush, all one of them, then they got out of porn

Dravyk · 03-31-2005

Good info, Bill, MaDalton.

Anthony · 03-31-2005

Quote:

Originally posted by MaDalton@Mar 31 2005, 01:16 AM
i have customers on www.lovelyvanessa.com that write poems for her or write emails she should stay away from doing hardcore because no one would be allowed to touch her beauty. so there surely is more than just porn out there that can be monetized.

Thank you for not reading those poems I sent in.

I appreciate it.

TheEnforcer · 03-31-2005

Well, the softcore/glamour and non-nude are two seperate beasts. I can easily see how a site like http://www.macandbumble.com/ can convert and retain members. It's high end "classy" porn aling the lines of Playboy or a souped up version of popular mens magazines. Some surfers really appreciate that kind of photography and videos that cater to high rez glamour and tease photos rather than just going for the "money" shot mentality. They can convert quite well as long as you do a good job of pre-selling your surfer correctly.

As fas as 18+ nonnude sites go I would imagine they would have to have well above average model interaction to retain though that's just a guess on my part. As cj pointed out there are plenty of sites out there that are models who just don't wanna get nude but don't mind doing the hard tease. I can see where they would convert because the model and her tease are the selling point but I would imagine the retention efforts would require more but could pay off with loyalty just like a hardcore or glamour model single girl site does.

I've joined exactly one site since i've been on the web and it was a softcore site http://www.suicidegirls.com Sykkboy told me about it and I checked it out and it was a damn good site.

03-30-2005	#1
Dravyk Easy Like Sunday Morning Want to see your own Advertising Here! Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Behind a couch, somewhere in Philly Posts: 7,628	Probably a dumb set of questions. Probably I should know this. I don't. I don't get it at all. So please, seriously, explain this to me. (As this is Oprano, I don't expect a ton of bullshit from non-nude site owners telling me how they have massive conversions that are "off da hook, dawg, yo-yo" either! Unless you can prove it!) Ok, first and foremost, I assume and I would think the average porn surfer would assume that if you go into a paysite, you are going to get hardcore inside. (Maybe this assumption is the problem, dunno. If it is, explain to me how this is so.) So if you go into a non-nude amateur site and you-the-surfer do not know it's a non-nude site, one would expect to at least see nudity. (That is unless somewhere it says on the tour, "this is a non-nude site".) Take it a step further, there are a lot of sites out there where there's nudity, but again, from experience, from being in paysites over the years, you-the-surfer would expect to see more than "pink", you'd expect something with dildos, some kind of hardcore. As MikeAI has done with all of his amateur sites (which have had the models totally naked, and either they or other content inside having hardcore in it), having tours where the amateur model is not naked doesn't mean they aren't naked inside. Again, using tours Mike had done for nearly a decade, once the surfer pays, there inside is what they paid for and came to expect, nudity and hardcore. So ... a) how do the softcore model sites convert past the trial to the month (let's not even go into monthly) and b) even more-so, how do these non-nude sites manage to convert? Note, I went to one program that does non-nude sites, saw on the webmaster side which were which, looked at the tours for the various sites, only one tour listed said on the outside that there was no nudity inside (in one-point text amid a bunch of other small text), none of the others said squat. So how's the surfer to know? Is the expectation incorrect to think there is nudity in these? And, as asked before, how can they even convert past trial let alone monthly? Young, pretty, exclusive content aside, it seems to me these sites don't deliver the expectation of the purchaser. I don't get it. __________________ All Of 'Em Mainstream Webmasters New: WebmasterConventions.com

03-30-2005	#2
Cleo Omnipotent Ruler Of Perversion Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: SouthEast Florida Posts: 810	Non-nude is often a key phrase for pedophiles looking for what pedophiles go looking for. Other then that I have no idea since I sell porn. Victoria’s Secrets web site has nice non-nude models to look at and you don't even have to pay. __________________ Pimp My Tranny Neighbor Traffic Trades

03-30-2005	#5
Cleo Omnipotent Ruler Of Perversion Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: SouthEast Florida Posts: 810	We do this with the tranny site that I run, but like your site it is in addition to the nekkid stuff. Dravyk is talking about non-nude sites, not nude sites that also have non-nude photos. __________________ Pimp My Tranny Neighbor Traffic Trades

03-31-2005	#8
Dravyk Easy Like Sunday Morning Want to see your own Advertising Here! Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Behind a couch, somewhere in Philly Posts: 7,628	Ok, ok ... Apparently there are many definitions of things here ... (and natch, none being what I was thinking at the time, hehe) So far we've had mention of everything from near CP to non-porn at all sites. As to the reason I am thinking as a pornographer, is because I was looking at a sponsor program that has softcore porn sites and non-nude sites, all aimed at the adult webmaster. The fact that non-nude in terms of personality sites that are non-adult has come up is still something I really didn't know about before so hey, I'm learning something new and that is always cool. In either case, I have yet to have anyone actually talk about why I brought this up in the first place: conversions after initial sale. Also the same question about softcore porn amateur sites has been totally missed with all of the focus having gone towards the non-nudes. So ... let's try again. How are conversions on non-nude amateur sites and on amateur sites that only offer softcore??? Hi Stephen! Yes I can imagine your lovely lady can get away with it. __________________ All Of 'Em Mainstream Webmasters New: WebmasterConventions.com

03-31-2005	#9
MaDalton 42 Join Date: May 2004 Location: GER/CZ Posts: 386	i have customers on www.lovelyvanessa.com that write poems for her or write emails she should stay away from doing hardcore because no one would be allowed to touch her beauty. so there surely is more than just porn out there that can be monetized. __________________ AmazingContent.com - exclusive & non-exclusive content production ICQ 319-146-475 - Skype madalton02826

03-30-2005	#6
cj Members Want to see your own Advertising Here! Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Down Under Posts: 5,202	Dravyk, put that bag of worms away damn it I think the biggest thing with your post is that you are thinking like a pornographer ... a non nude site is not a porn site ... its a site about a person who is attractive. in the same way that music clips aren't porn even though they sell sex ......... in my definition there is 2 types of non nude sites ... there's the ones that are really just KP sites that use the non nude loop hole, then there's sites that are just not porn sites which sell models who just aren't nude and are never intended to be ... example .... http://www.imogenbailey.com are you expecting to find hardcore porn inside? did I mention anywhere 'no hardcore porn inside' or 'no nudity inside'? as pornographers, we forget there's a whole world out there that doesn't even think about porn ....

03-31-2005	#10
Cleo Omnipotent Ruler Of Perversion Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: SouthEast Florida Posts: 810	I'm nude right now __________________ Pimp My Tranny Neighbor Traffic Trades

03-31-2005	#12
Mike AI Administrator Want to see your own Advertising Here! Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 11,618	Bill don't kid yourself, people who like hardcore porn also voted for Bush! __________________ Make big money on your Domains! Why wait 40 days to get paid with the other guys? Parked.com pays the most for your traffic, and cuts checks twice a month!

03-31-2005	#14
Dravyk Easy Like Sunday Morning Want to see your own Advertising Here! Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Behind a couch, somewhere in Philly Posts: 7,628	Good info, Bill, MaDalton. __________________ All Of 'Em Mainstream Webmasters New: WebmasterConventions.com

03-31-2005	#16
TheEnforcer Scored VIP to Anton's Piss Tank Want to see your own Advertising Here! Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,781	Well, the softcore/glamour and non-nude are two seperate beasts. I can easily see how a site like http://www.macandbumble.com/ can convert and retain members. It's high end "classy" porn aling the lines of Playboy or a souped up version of popular mens magazines. Some surfers really appreciate that kind of photography and videos that cater to high rez glamour and tease photos rather than just going for the "money" shot mentality. They can convert quite well as long as you do a good job of pre-selling your surfer correctly. As fas as 18+ nonnude sites go I would imagine they would have to have well above average model interaction to retain though that's just a guess on my part. As cj pointed out there are plenty of sites out there that are models who just don't wanna get nude but don't mind doing the hard tease. I can see where they would convert because the model and her tease are the selling point but I would imagine the retention efforts would require more but could pay off with loyalty just like a hardcore or glamour model single girl site does. I've joined exactly one site since i've been on the web and it was a softcore site http://www.suicidegirls.com Sykkboy told me about it and I checked it out and it was a damn good site.