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HAVANA - Fidel Castro (news - web sites) says the emergence of an Osama bin Laden (news - web sites) videotape just ahead of the U.S. presidential election seemed to have been "arranged" to help President Bush (news - web sites).
In his first public comments about Bush's re-election, the Cuban leader said, "We have seen too much ... trickery and shamelessness to sustain the belief that this wasn't something arranged."
Speaking Tuesday on the communist-run island's nightly televised "Mesa Redonda" discussion program, Castro added, "Bin Laden makes the documentaries that decide elections."
He did any detail on how the tape could have been timed to the election. It was broadcast by the Arab television station Al-Jazeera on Oct. 29, just ahead of the Nov. 2 2 election. The station did not say how it received the tape.
In the videotape, bin Laden acknowledged he ordered the Sept. 11 attacks on the United States. He also said the United States must stop threatening the security of Muslims if it wants to avoid "another Manhattan." While he did not directly warn of new attacks, the al-Qaida leader said: "There are still reasons to repeat what happened."
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Instead of discussing if the tape helped Bush's re-election....why don't we hear about the tests done on the tape to find out location, dates etc etc and hunt the fucker down!!
I haven't seen a word about that....
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bah
the fact there is a tape to begin with shows Bush didn't do his job...
although, I think the fact he is talking about more attacks means there won't be anymore on that scale (from his taliban boogeymn anyways)...if he was going to pull another attack like that, I'm sure he wouldn't be bragging about it ahead of time...
Originally posted by gigi@Nov 18 2004, 01:55 PM Instead of discussing if the tape helped Bush's re-election....why don't we hear about the tests done on the tape to find out location, dates etc etc and hunt the fucker down!!
I haven't seen a word about that....
Maybe the CIA should post more on Oprano!
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Mike, put down your broad brush, your so far to the conservative side that you can't see the difference between center liberalism and communism.
:-)
Alex
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Originally posted by RawAlex@Nov 18 2004, 02:43 PM Mike, put down your broad brush, your so far to the conservative side that you can't see the difference between center liberalism and communism.
:-)
Alex
I have never heard the term "central liberalism" Is that somewhere in the center between socialism and communism?
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Nope, it's where you stand in the center of everything, and then lean a little to the liberal side.
Y'see, your so far off to one end, that when you look back at the center, everything on the other side lines up behind it... so you think you are seeing clear over to pure communism (which exists nowhere, in reality).
Of course, if it will make you feel happy, I will come here and quote drug crazed Rush Limbaugh all day for ya... he is REALLY very close to your views, from what I gather.
Alex urpdance:
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Originally posted by RawAlex@Nov 18 2004, 03:19 PM Nope, it's where you stand in the center of everything, and then lean a little to the liberal side.
Y'see, your so far off to one end, that when you look back at the center, everything on the other side lines up behind it... so you think you are seeing clear over to pure communism (which exists nowhere, in reality).
Of course, if it will make you feel happy, I will come here and quote drug crazed Rush Limbaugh all day for ya... he is REALLY very close to your views, from what I gather.
Alex urpdance:
yeah I hear that about Rush as well. Maybe I should get my own radio show!!
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Wig, from where Mike stands, everything else looks WAY off... he's about 1 step from falling off into the "conservative loonie bin" located at the end of the plank.
Mike, you should have a radio show. It would be hilarious. However, there are already way too many rushabies out there crowding up the FCC mandated airwaves with their one sided hatchet jobs, you would be redundant to the max.
Alex
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Originally posted by RawAlex@Nov 18 2004, 05:57 PM Wig, from where Mike stands, everything else looks WAY off... he's about 1 step from falling off into the "conservative loonie bin" located at the end of the plank.
Alex, I would not dispute that Mike is right of center a fair amount, especially from a Canadian's point of view. I do not see him as a right wing extremist, though.
I just hope that on the flip side of the coin, you understand that you look just as far left from the American viewpoint.
I found your characterization of yourself as a centrist funny. Not meaning that as an insult. Only from my perspective, of course.
wig, the US right now is in the middle of a "conservative" swing of the pendulum. What was considered fairly far to the right not 5 or 6 years ago is now pretty much "center" as far as the current measurement goes. From that stand point alone, I am VERY far to the left.
In more balanced times, I am slightly to the left of center, but not that far off all considered (you will remember the tests most of us did a year or so back). I am right of many Canadians, however, as I don't agree with the endless handouts and government support for everything under the sun.
It all depends on how you look at it.
Alex
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I am very conservative on foreign policy issues - and economic issues.
I would consider myself liberal on most social issues.
I know its easier to try and write me off as some a crazed right wing religious nutcake... but I would imagine the same people you try to lump me with, would call me a morally lost pornographer.
Funny how both sides can be right, but so wrong.
Please remember I am an expert of Foreign Policy - I have a peice of paper from the University of Southern Mississippi that says so. My major professor was one of the top guys at State Department under Kissinger. He was the lead US negotiator on the original treaty between Greece andd Turky over Cyprus back in the day.
As you can imagine - we hit it off well. Infact, he is the reason I changed my major to International Studies from Chemistry.
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Originally posted by Mike AI@Nov 18 2004, 08:06 PM Please remember I am an expert of Foreign Policy - I have a peice of paper from the University of Southern Mississippi that says so.
I am a fireman, I have a certificate from "FreedomLand" to prove it...
Oh, and I'm also a Junior Pilot (even have my wings) and let's see I have another certificate that says I'm a "Survivor of Blackbeard's Realm"........
Originally posted by Mike AI@Nov 18 2004, 05:06 PM I am in the majority in the US!
I am very conservative on foreign policy issues - and economic issues.
I would consider myself liberal on most social issues.
I know its easier to try and write me off as some a crazed right wing religious nutcake... but I would imagine the same people you try to lump me with, would call me a morally lost pornographer.
Funny how both sides can be right, but so wrong.
Please remember I am an expert of Foreign Policy - I have a peice of paper from the University of Southern Mississippi that says so. My major professor was one of the top guys at State Department under Kissinger. He was the lead US negotiator on the original treaty between Greece andd Turky over Cyprus back in the day.
As you can imagine - we hit it off well. Infact, he is the reason I changed my major to International Studies from Chemistry.
i cant place you, honeslty. i think you like the current administration because youve done well under it. I believe you are certainly converned about terrorism, but knowing you personallly, i dont think you worry about it for you. i think you worry about it for those near you.
Originally posted by Mike AI@Nov 18 2004, 08:06 PM I am in the majority in the US!
I am very conservative on foreign policy issues - and economic issues.
I would consider myself liberal on most social issues.
I know its easier to try and write me off as some a crazed right wing religious nutcake... but I would imagine the same people you try to lump me with, would call me a morally lost pornographer.
Funny how both sides can be right, but so wrong.
Please remember I am an expert of Foreign Policy - I have a peice of paper from the University of Southern Mississippi that says so. My major professor was one of the top guys at State Department under Kissinger. He was the lead US negotiator on the original treaty between Greece andd Turky over Cyprus back in the day.
As you can imagine - we hit it off well. Infact, he is the reason I changed my major to International Studies from Chemistry.
Studied under a student of Kissinger ... that explains a whole lot.
Just out of curiousity, how much of your undergraduate study was devoted to the actions of stateless groups on the international scene?
A liberal on social issues? Aren't you one who was posting about having gay marriage "imposed" on you by "activist judges"?
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knowing mike as well as i do, i know he is a true beleiver. but not to a dangerous level. he loves america and the american way of life. he loves his lifestyle and the lifestyle he has provided his family. I think he honestly fears tis could all be taken away without good change coming out of it.
myself, on the other hand, respects mike to the nth degree. But i am a bit more liberal on what i am willing to put up with to guarantee certain freedoms. Where hs fear comes from without, my fear comes from within. I fear no terror. But i fear an unchecked administration, i fear a 4th reich, but maybe that is my history.
I know for a fact that GW Bush does not like me, for a multitude of reasons. I compare him to joe kennedy and henry ford. He scares me. Cond Rice scares me more. maybe i am paranoid, but i have never known a paranoid person that gets blindsided.
as for political figures... we agree on much. I love Ann Coulters sass, brasheness, and intelligence. and her willingness to wear miniskirts without underwear but i dont agree with a lot of her politics. i feel when she criticizes the rep party, she is delightfully shameless. but her books are chock full of flat out lies. but thats what sells, eh?
And thats a all i gots to say about that. Mike stirs the pot, but is an all around good friend and family man. he is one person i know who cares about me more than most. its a good feeling, trust me.
and pornodoggy, this is a chat board. things are said for effect. hell i have stirred the pot on many occasions. get to know the man behind the opinion, its enlightening. I am not a bush supporter, but i am gung ho for him to do a bang up job this time.
the people waiting for himto fail confuse me. if he fails, our country fails, what do you get, an "i told you so"? id rather have some success in government, regardless of th party.
ad i shout from the mountaintop "I AM NOT A LIBERAL" i just want some god to come out of something. the day that makes me a liberal, puts all conservatives in question.
Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Nov 18 2004, 08:20 PM
Just out of curiousity, how much of your undergraduate study was devoted to the actions of stateless groups on the international scene?
A liberal on social issues? Aren't you one who was posting about having gay marriage "imposed" on you by "activist judges"?
Funny you should ask. I changed my major in 1990 - this was amazing times with Communism collapsing. So we studied this a lot. We also studied all the classics.
But my professor was one of the first people I know of to point out the threat Islamic Fundamentalism could become. He dealt with Khomeni ( sp?) back when he was still in Paris making audio tapes to be broadcasted in Iran.
My professor also warned that US bleeding the Russians in Afganistan would probably come back to haunt us.
I think marriage should be limited to a man and a woman, but there should be laws that allow same sex unions so they get same benefits that would address all the issues the proponents of same sex marriage raise.
Liberal might not be the word. Libertarian. People should be able to do what they want for the most part - as long as they don't violate others rights, and its between consenting adults.
I am also a strict constructionist when it comes to the Constitution, and think judges should interpret the law now make it. I would like to say that I had professors in Law School who beleived the same things, but there were only 2 that I knew of.
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I've never thought of Mike as conservative. I mean, come on. Conservative guys don't go to TJ. Pat Robertson is conservative. Mike is very Republican but not very conservative.
There's a whole lot of us in the socially liberal conservative foreign policy camp. Some of us are in parties (Republican, Libertarian) and some not.
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Originally posted by grimm@Nov 18 2004, 08:33 PM the people waiting for himto fail confuse me. if he fails, our country fails, what do you get, an "i told you so"? id rather have some success in government, regardless of th party.
I was just watching the news (evil liberal CNN news) and they were showing the opening of the clinton library, in particular Clinton's remarks. Mad me eremember why we elected him in the first place.
He's standing in the rain without an umbrella and almost shouts "Am I the only one that like both George Bush and John Kerry." to start his comments... Very good message of united and working toether... Short, to the point.....
edited in again: found the full text, this is the section I saw...
"I believe our mission in this new century is clear. For good or ill, we live in an interdependent world. We can't escape each other. And while we have to fight our enemies, we can't possibly kill, jail or occupy all of them. Therefore, we have to spend our lives trying to build a global community and an American community of shared responsibilities, shared values, shared benefits.
What are those values? And I want to say this. This is important. I don't want to be too political here, but it bothers me when America gets as divided as it was. I once said to a friend of mine, about three days before the election -- I heard all these terrible things -- I said, "You know, am I the only person in the entire United States of America who likes both George W. Bush and John Kerry, who believes they're both good people, who believes they both love our country and they just see the world differently?"
What should our shared values be? Everybody counts. Everybody deserves a chance. Everybody's got a responsibility to fulfill. We all do better when we work together. Our differences do matter, but our common humanity matters more.
So I tell you we can continue building our bridge to tomorrow. It will require some red American line-drawing and some blue American barrier-breaking, but we can do it together."
Originally posted by Colin@Nov 18 2004, 08:50 PM I've never thought of Mike as conservative. I mean, come on. Conservative guys don't go to TJ. Pat Robertson is conservative. Mike is very Republican but not very conservative.
There's a whole lot of us in the socially liberal conservative foreign policy camp. Some of us are in parties (Republican, Libertarian) and some not.
I hardly think that being willing to party in TJ makes one a social liberal. A hedonist, maybe ... but doesn't have anything to do with liberal or conservative, blah blah blah.
Advocating some form of Plessy standard for gay marriage doesn't make one a social liberal, either ... although I'm sure it passes for such in some circles.
Board personality or not, there is more than enough unadultered Anne Coulter that comes out in Mike's posts to indicate that he is not a social liberal.
Anyone who professes to not understand the distinction between liberalism and communism is not a social liberal.
But that's just my opinion. Whatever makes you feel better.
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Originally posted by sarettah@Nov 18 2004, 09:22 PM I was just watching the news (evil liberal CNN news) and they were showing the opening of the clinton library, in particular Clinton's remarks. Mad me eremember why we elected him in the first place.
He's standing in the rain without an umbrella and almost shouts "Am I the only one that like both George Bush and John Kerry." to start his comments... Very good message of united and working toether
One of the best politicians of our times. He visited my father's massage school a few years ago. My father said he was a master politican in his answering of all questions.
One question went something like this ...
Dad. "Have you ever had a professional massage before?"
The prez. "No, BUT I do see the value of it .. blah, blah. blah."
Turned all POSSIBLE negatives into positives.
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Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Nov 18 2004, 10:58 PM I hardly think that being willing to party in TJ makes one a social liberal. A hedonist, maybe ... but doesn't have anything to do with liberal or conservative, blah blah blah.
That's a joke. Conservatives like the donkey show too.
Is gay marriage the litmus test of being liberal on social values? How does that stack up against one's choice of porn peddler as a profession?
Didn't John Edwards say he opposes gay marriage? Is he not liberal as a result?
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I was never a Clinton fan...he brought shame to the office of the Presidency (of course Kennedy wouldn't be able to hide his shenigans today) However, I think his speaking skills are even better than Reagan, and his message in todays world is very well spoken and profound. The more I see him, the more respect I gain for him. It is too bad that he will not be used in a way to benefit our country. I think he could do a better job than those the Bush is surrounding himself with. It is very unfortunate that the witch hunt he had to deal with, delved into his personal life. You can lie, you can maneuver, but you can't cheat on your wife....
Anyone see the CNN special report on Religion? It appears to me that we are going back to the 60s, where if you want to sleep with a guy - society says you are obligated to marry him. Most of these people in my view are not only hypicritical, but also cheuvanistiic. Don't get me wrong, I have a respect for people religious views - as long as they don't try to push their will on me. I was raised in the church.... I has driven out by what I saw as hypicrites and narrow minded people around me. The Southern Baptists and the Wesleyns fit that category to me. If I was going to join a church it would be Lutheran. I know a lot of them, and I have never seen a fanatic in the bunch. They seem to do thier work by example, and not by being judgemental & trying to impose thier will on others. (Just my experience)
Originally posted by Sharpie@Nov 21 2004, 11:22 AM It appears to me that we are going back to the 60s, where if you want to sleep with a guy - society says you are obligated to marry him.
No way. People on the "other side" think society has gone completely the other way - towards hedonism and debauchery. I think THEY'RE right .. and there's nothing wrong with that, of course.
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Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Nov 21 2004, 09:07 PM I'm sure that Mike share's at least one opinion with GW - and that's that Scalia and Thomas are ideal Supreme Court justices. Most social liberals, at least as I understand the term, would not be inclinded to support justices who would probably endore overtruning things like Miranda ruling - let alone Rowe v Wade.
All one would have to do to determine just how "socially liberal" Mike (or a great many others on this board) is bring up taxation and how it is spent.
He shares many. He's a Republican. Not everything is about social issues to everyone. In fact, someone might consider the spectrum of social issues to not be very important overall - or even to be an area where government should not be involved at all. I say Mike's not "a conservative" but he also despises the Democratic party because his core beliefs - the ones he feels strongest about - are in strong disagreement with the party. (Hard to talk for someone else. How am I doing, Mike?)
Let's look at Buff's party. Is a libertarian "socially liberal"? Libertarians believe that the government has no role in the place of people's social lives. They also believe that welfare is not the role of the state. Does that mean libertarians are not "socially liberal"? I would say they are. In fact, I'd say they are more socially liberal than Democrats.
Now we've reached the problem of what the definition of liberal is. I'm assuming we don't mean the classic definition of one who supports political change. That to me is a nonsensical definition. Everyone wants things to change more toward the way they want the world to be. If a liberal "reforms" something, a conservative will want to CHANGE it back. To me, "laissez-faire" is as liberal as it gets. My party is the ultimate liberal party. The "Leave Me the Fuck Alone" Party is one strong and looking for good men and women like you.
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Originally posted by RawAlex@Nov 18 2004, 02:57 PM Wig, from where Mike stands, everything else looks WAY off... he's about 1 step from falling off into the "conservative loonie bin" located at the end of the plank.
Mike, you should have a radio show. It would be hilarious. However, there are already way too many rushabies out there crowding up the FCC mandated airwaves with their one sided hatchet jobs, you would be redundant to the max.
Alex
hah, if you really knew him, he is for family and country, and in this day and age, he is oversensetive about the two, hence the reactionary pose.
and no offense alex, but you are not the hardesr button to push, or the hardest man to get a reaction out of. you know i hold you inh high esteem, but you are a true b;eleiver, and mile is willing to play the part if it gets your short and curlies in a bind
The fact that I find the description of Raw Mike as a social liberal as laughable does not mean I don't think he is a nice person. I'm sure he is kind to his mother, his wife, random old ladies and old men, stray dogs, and may even send money monthy to feed Sally Struther's starving children.
Colin, you can quibble with the traditional definitions of liberal and conservative if you want to, and for any reasons you may want to. You left at least one that is relevant out, however ... reactionary.
A conservative fights to maintain the status quo - a reactionary wishes to roll the clock backwards to a better time and place. Buff already is there, Mike will be there soon enough (if he isn't already).
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Colin, you only have to marry once to get enough experience not to do it again.
Conservatives are really "roll back" mentality people, looking to get back to that better time of the parents, grand parents, whatever. They are often gentle luddites, wanting to stop the progress that is changing their way of life.
While i don't suggest anyone here is a racist, many of the most conservative people are also from the "bob Jones University" crowd, wanting to return to the times of segregation, separation, etc. For them, their "better time" was when the US still had a back and front to the bus.
Conservative "caring" is the kind dictated by the social group, not by common sense. They of course care for their families, etc. Yet they cannot seem to care for people less fortunate then them (unless they consider their mexican nannies as less fortunate), cannot see the values of a social programs to advance and / or protect the masses.
if you suggest a social program of any sort near a conservative person, they will get excited, jump up and down, point fingers at you and start yelling "COMMIE PINKO BASTARD!" while dialing 922 (conservative emergency number, works only in the midwest and southern US) to summon up the shock troops to mount a protest, pass a bill to outlaw the social program, and slander the people making the thought.
Oh yeah, and they will say "god bless america" at the end.
Conservative. Is it another way of saying "uncaring sheep?"
Alex
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Alex AI - thank you for proving my point - that the differences between you and Mike are nominal at best.
'Conservative. Is it another way of saying "uncaring sheep?"' is absolutely no different than 'if you are a liberal you are a Marxist.'
Conservatives quite often demonstrate MORE concern on a personal basis (in action and in opening their wallets) for the socially disadvantaged than some liberals - the just don't advocate that the care be provided by the government. Not all conservatives agree with the reactionaries and haters like Bob Jones; for that matter, not all EVANGELICALS believe in the racism that lurks quietly on the right.
John McCain is a coinservative. Rudy Guilliani is a conservative. Even within the first Bush Administration (and just off the top of my head), Ridge, Whitman and Powell are conservatives. Those are just a few examples of individuals that don't fit the description you have given, and there are millions of people like them.
Yes, I know ... the reactionaries (including a large number of the more vocal evangelicals, as well as a copule of board members) would denounce the people I listed above as R.I.N.O. That merely proves the fact that the "landslide" the Republican party just won isn't nearly as solid as the cheerleaders for the Bushites think it is.
You paint your pictures with the same broad brush that Raw Mike does ... you just use a slightly different color.
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PD, did you not see all the laughy faces at the bottom of the post? It is a (somewhat weak) attempt at humor to make a point: that if we used Mike's way of attaching me to Fidel or whaever, it really isn't hard from the other end to see him sitting down to dinner to Bob Jones to listen to President Boy give a sermon (ummm, speech).
Give as good as you get. That's the idea.
Alex urpdance:
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Grimm, I have no way of detemining the sexual preferences of the bananas...
Alex
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I am not sure about the bananas on broadway, I think these ones were working off-broadway... :-)
Alex
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11-18-2004
urpdance:
It is all perspective.
but i dont agree with a lot of her politics. i feel when she criticizes the rep party, she is delightfully shameless. but her books are chock full of flat out lies. but thats what sells, eh?
Now what is wrong with this sentence children 
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