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I never understood why anyone would drag dead, burnt bodies through the street...
The only reason I can see is that people are trying to get on TV and use it as some kind of theater to try and intimidate foreigners ( Americans.) I do not think it will work here in the US.
Personally if I was in charge of the military in Iraq, I would have bombed ( or call in an AC 130 Gunship in) the people who were doing it, cheering it, and watching it.
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I think the majority of Iraqis are okay about the US still being in Iraq, even if they have been there for longer than first anticipated. The group of people that did what they did are a minority, fueled by mob mentality.
Killing them and innocents around them, would only increase anti-american sentiment and you would see more and more attacks like this.
Right after the fall of Saddam it was easy to see everyone dancing in the streets chanting and cheering, because it was Saddam that was making their life suck, "America freed them, now they will have 5 TV's and 3 cars each like the American's do"
Reality set in and these people realize their life still sucks, must be the Americans fault.
I don't believe you can go from brutal dictatorship to democracy very easily, people that have never had freedom simply do not know how to handle it.
I think the transition from Iron Fist to Freedom needs to be slower. Unfortunately that streaches or involvement. There is no win here that I can see.
Isn't it time for the US to leave already? No, wait... then they wouldn't get to control the oil fields.
This is great. 6 more months of this and Bush the boy and his merry band of "we know exactly what the world needs" flunkies will be unemployed.
Alex
__________________
Let's go to the edge of disaster Push the pedal and go a little faster Let's slam into a wall at ramming speed Let's go to the edge of a mountain Jump off and lets start countin' Hit the ground and tell me if it bleeds
Originally posted by RawAlex@Apr 1 2004, 11:00 AM Isn't it time for the US to leave already? No, wait... then they wouldn't get to control the oil fields.
This is great. 6 more months of this and Bush the boy and his merry band of "we know exactly what the world needs" flunkies will be unemployed.
Alex
And then we can go to the next group of "we know exactly what the world needs" flunkies.
Originally posted by RawAlex@Apr 1 2004, 08:00 AM Isn't it time for the US to leave already? No, wait... then they wouldn't get to control the oil fields.
This is great. 6 more months of this and Bush the boy and his merry band of "we know exactly what the world needs" flunkies will be unemployed.
Alex
What do you think about Canada and how it is building up its military, so it can win Hans Island and control all the water trade in the future?
Gee Rolo, don't think it is the same... Perhaps if the US was fighting to keep the florida keys from becoming part of Cuba, you might have something. Otherwise, you are just attempting to use the standard lame debating / political tactic of ignoring the current discussion and attempting to get everyone to talk about how bad the "other team" is.
Boring.
Serge, did you close this place yet? ;-)
Alex
__________________
Let's go to the edge of disaster Push the pedal and go a little faster Let's slam into a wall at ramming speed Let's go to the edge of a mountain Jump off and lets start countin' Hit the ground and tell me if it bleeds
Originally posted by RawAlex@Apr 1 2004, 02:29 PM Otherwise, you are just attempting to use the standard lame debating / political tactic of ignoring the current discussion and attempting to get everyone to talk about how bad the "other team" is.
Ok, RawAlex, thought that people shouldnt throw stones if they live in a glass house - the glass house being Canada (love Canada - just find it ironic).
Iīm tired of hearing/reading the same marxist comments again and again about the US. Socialist have used the US for the last 40-50 years as an "evil empire", which is only after the money (or oil in this case) and will enslave everyone (or iraqies) to reach their evil goals.
Wake Up! Its 2-0-0-4, and today its not some poor starving person with no education comming from a 3rd world country, who are flying airplains into buildings, blowing up trains, or dragging burned bodies around in the streets. No its people who have food, who have access to money, and who can read - they might even be from your own city in the US, Canada or Europe... These people are not thinking about the USīs money/oil or the socialistīs Karl Marx when they are doing their evil part - no they are thinking about religion.
We got one part of this planet, which are thinking about sending people to Mars by using science, and we got another part which is thinking about sending people to Paradise using religion.
Time for you "naysayers" to find out which side of this planet you are on!
__________________ "Chaos is the law of nature, order is the dream of man."
~Henry B. Adams (Historian) 1838-1918
Rolo, I want what your having... it really seems to get to you.
"THEY" (I hate that word) aren't thinking about oil directly, but their actions are a result of the actions taken by the US. It has been a tit for tat escalation that started with some troops in the Saudi desert and has moved along to two countries being invaded and overtaken, and terrorist actions on the other side. The US is fighting it's war for things it wants, and the other side (THEY) are fighting for what they believe in. What THEY believe in might be wrong, but THEY believe, and have convinced more than enough people that they are right.
Think about it... where did this start? Some troops in the Saudi desert? Supporting the Shah in Iran?
IMHO, if there wasn't a Bush in the Whitehouse, history since 2001 would be different and the world a much different (and probably safer) place. It's personal, all of this... The Bush family is the PERSONAL target of muslims and arabs alike... OPEC is just taking a very subtle approach to doing the same thing.
As for the Canadian thing, well, wouldn't the US protect Alaska? That's not glass house stuff, thats just normal.
Alex
__________________
Let's go to the edge of disaster Push the pedal and go a little faster Let's slam into a wall at ramming speed Let's go to the edge of a mountain Jump off and lets start countin' Hit the ground and tell me if it bleeds
Originally posted by Mike AI@Mar 31 2004, 07:52 AM I never understood why anyone would drag dead, burnt bodies through the street...
The only reason I can see is that people are trying to get on TV and use it as some kind of theater to try and intimidate foreigners ( Americans.) I do not think it will work here in the US.
Personally if I was in charge of the military in Iraq, I would have bombed ( or call in an AC 130 Gunship in) the people who were doing it, cheering it, and watching it.
They have been like that for thousands of years. They aren't going to change, and the presence of the US there is certainly not going to change the nature of a people that deeply ingrained. Yet another reason the US really shouldn't be there in the first place.
"They" are not only against the US... "They" are against EVERYTHING which we in the western world take for granted - look at how the Taliban ruled Afghanistan - this is how some of them envision the world...
When you see the US flag burning, then its simply because they didnīt have any Canadian or EU flags in the local bazaar - the USA is a symbol on the freedom we have in the western world - thats why they burn it.
Their actions are not due to something the US did 30 years, or even 10 years ago - their actions are caused by imams who uses fear/anger to stay in or gain power... You should ask yourself why that is - why do they want to attract all this power/influence? The reason is that the western world have launched a revolution in the Middle East called "Democracy". And please before you grab your socialist history handbook, so you can repeat every wrong during ever happende in mankindīs history, then remember that its never too late to adjust ones view of the world. This is what the US, and EU have done - they have actual started to tear down many of those they keept in power, so "the people" in the Middle East can get the same freedom as we have in the western world. Now you can not expect Utopia tomorrow, this takes time, and will cost blood, but you can not stop evolution. In time the Middle East will have Democracy, and then the killing will stop.
Quote:
if there wasn't a Bush in the Whitehouse, history since 2001 would be different
Who can really tell about "what if"? What if the US had not invaded Afghanistan, would we have seen more attacks like 9/11? What if Saddam was still in power today - would the Middle East be more safe, would iraqis have any chance of Democracy in their lifetime?
What matters is what happende, and how it will turn out.
Quote:
As for the Canadian thing...
Then I still find it funny/ironic... Here Canada have a small dispute with one of the most civilized countries in the world, and how do Canada react? By "flexing its military muscles" - you might not be able to see the irony, but after hearing so much "we live in peace, love and harmony - you are warmongoes" talk when comparing Canada and the US...
__________________ "Chaos is the law of nature, order is the dream of man."
~Henry B. Adams (Historian) 1838-1918
"They" are not only against the US... "They" are against EVERYTHING which we in the western world take for granted - look at how the Taliban ruled Afghanistan - this is how some of them envision the world...
When you see the US flag burning, then its simply because they didnīt have any Canadian or EU flags in the local bazaar - the USA is a symbol on the freedom we have in the western world - thats why they burn it.
Their actions are not due to something the US did 30 years, or even 10 years ago - their actions are caused by imams who uses fear/anger to stay in or gain power... You should ask yourself why that is - why do they want to attract all this power/influence? The reason is that the western world have launched a revolution in the Middle East called "Democracy". And please before you grab your socialist history handbook, so you can repeat every wrong during ever happende in mankindīs history, then remember that its never too late to adjust ones view of the world. This is what the US, and EU have done - they have actual started to tear down many of those they keept in power, so "the people" in the Middle East can get the same freedom as we have in the western world. Now you can not expect Utopia tomorrow, this takes time, and will cost blood, but you can not stop evolution. In time the Middle East will have Democracy, and then the killing will stop.
Quote:
if there wasn't a Bush in the Whitehouse, history since 2001 would be different
Who can really tell about "what if"? What if the US had not invaded Afghanistan, would we have seen more attacks like 9/11? What if Saddam was still in power today - would the Middle East be more safe, would iraqis have any chance of Democracy in their lifetime?
What matters is what happende, and how it will turn out.
Quote:
As for the Canadian thing...
Then I still find it funny/ironic... Here Canada have a small dispute with one of the most civilized countries in the world, and how do Canada react? By "flexing its military muscles" - you might not be able to see the irony, but after hearing so much "we live in peace, love and harmony - you are warmongoes" talk when comparing Canada and the US...
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Originally posted by Mike AI@Mar 31 2004, 07:52 AM I never understood why anyone would drag dead, burnt bodies through the street...
The only reason I can see is that people are trying to get on TV and use it as some kind of theater to try and intimidate foreigners ( Americans.) I do not think it will work here in the US.
Personally if I was in charge of the military in Iraq, I would have bombed ( or call in an AC 130 Gunship in) the people who were doing it, cheering it, and watching it.
You see mike, you are an american. You think everyone wants to be on tv. YOu don't get the fact that these people hate you so much, they do this. Calling in a gunship would do exactly the same thing. It would incinerate people. So the difference between and American and an Iraqi is zero. You bring in death from above....they hang your asses from bridges. Now how long will it take to realize this is a war you can never win? As a country, you don't have the muscle to prevale. Argue if you like, but events will overtake a bunch of two bit pornographers like us and our opinions will be worth shit on toast. This does not bode well for the future.
Oh yeah....cobras are nice...but.....well you know.
Last edited by theduderocks at Apr 1 2004, 07:04 PM
03-31-2004
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