Americans getting tired of Iraq ?

[sarettah]

http://www.msnbc.com/news/956458.asp?0cv=CA01

When is Enough Enough?

In a new Newsweek poll, Americans say they’re spending too much in Iraq with too little to show for it. And with the 2004 approaching, Bush is losing ground

Aug. 23 — Americans are increasingly pessimistic about the U.S. mission in Iraq, saying the United States should reduce its spending and scale back its efforts there, according to the latest NEWSWEEK poll.

SIXTY-NINE PERCENT of Americans polled say they are very concerned (40 percent) or somewhat concerned (29 percent) that the United States will be bogged down for many years in Iraq without making much progress in achieving its goals. Just 18 percent say they’re confident that a stable, democratic form of government can take shape in Iraq over the long term; 37 percent are somewhat confident. Just 13 percent say U.S. efforts to establish security and rebuild Iraq have gone very well since May 1, when combat officially ended; 39 percent say somewhat well.

[ulfie]

And if we do reduce our effort there and in 5 years another tyrant is in charge of Iraq the same dipshits will be saying we didn't do enough.

[sharky]

I'm sure many of those polled could care less now.
Once Saddam was toppled, many people think "the job is done" or "let them rebuild themeselves!"

I personally think we MUST have a continued presence in Iraq. Without it, another Baathist regime may be built. However, I think the way we are treating our troops is terrible.

Talking about reducing pay is crazy. Give the soldiers something to be proud of! They are risking their lives on a daily basis.. If cutbacks need to be made, make them somewhere else. Pay the troops what they deserve!

Soldiers are spending too much time away from their families.. many that I know have had their tour times extended at least once, a few have had them extended twice or more! Moral will get lower and lower as soldiers miss their families more and more. Not to mention those soldiers who have yet to see their newborn children.
They all know what they signed up for... but being told over and over again that you are going home, only for delay after delay.. it gets old.



Last edited by sharky at Aug 24 2003, 08:02 PM

[Mike AI]

The problem with US Americans is we have become a nation of the quick fix, immediate gratification.

Iraq is NOT a quick fix it will take 20-30 years.... but it will be well worth it, if we can use Iraq as a base to stabilize the region.

American's forget we still have troops in Germany and Japan.... been there since 1945 - 1946.

We need to long long term, be patient, look at big picture....

The problem is unlike 1945-1946 we have a lot of anti-Americans who are running for office, and controling the press and using Iraq to manipulate voters....

[slavdogg]

2 interesting articles i just read re: Iraq


Iraq and Arab League
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.j...sID=0&listSrc=Y

U.S. checking possibility of pumping oil from northern Iraq to Haifa, via Jordan
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.j...sID=0&listSrc=Y

[Mike AI]

Very interesting article Slav!!

[PornoDoggy]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Aug 24 2003, 08:27 PM
The problem with US Americans is we have become a nation of the quick fix, immediate gratification.

Iraq is NOT a quick fix it will take 20-30 years.... but it will be well worth it, if we can use Iraq as a base to stabilize the region.

American's forget we still have troops in Germany and Japan.... been there since 1945 - 1946.

We need to long long term, be patient, look at big picture....

The problem is unlike 1945-1946 we have a lot of anti-Americans who are running for office, and controling the press and using Iraq to manipulate voters....

Anti-Americans running for office? Who do you consider anti-American, Torone? Anyone to the left of Ann Coulter?

And using Iraq to maniuplate voters? Exactly how are they doing that? By suggesting that a large part of the justification for the war was of questionable value? By suggesting that the planning for the afterrmath this war was slipshod at based, and based more on idealogical assumptions than in fact? By observing with their own eyes and ears that the administration that did an about-face in two weeks - from denying there was a guerilla war to acknowledging it's existance? By observing with their own eyes that the policy of occupation-lite tactics of this Administration, which are failing in Afghanistan, are now failing in a much more public way in Iraq?

Oh, I know that you and the others who have attained enlightenment and understanding of realpolitik may have difficulty comprehending the dissatisfaction of commoners and the rest of the public-school educated masses; but your most-favored-mullahs in charge better figure out a way to convince them, or trump up another crisis someplace to distract them. Otherwise they may find themselves in some deep doodoo with the voters.

The pathetic thing is that there were people in 1945-1946 denoucing Truman, Clark, Marshall, et al as being Anti-American. The problem is that unlike 1945-1946 we have a lot of folks who don't realize just how tired those lines are, or how silly their entire premise is. The REAL anti-Americans, IMHO, are the self righteous chumps who don't seem to realize that not everyone is willing to call Bush's naked ass a Brooks Brothers suit, and that one does not have to be a right-wing Republican in order to be a patriotic American.

[wig]

Maybe it's time for one of your civil disobedience stints you are so proud of.

LMK if you need bus fare.

[PornoDoggy]

Oh boy ... haven't seen much of Tweedle Dee lately, who likes to pull "You read Marx" into any conversation, regardless of context or relevance.

Good to know that Tweedle Dumb believes he has found equal "ammunition".

BTW ... I have no need of bus fare. I own to V8 equipped American manufactured automobiles that would get me anywhere I want to go just fine, thank you very much.

[JR]

why shouldn't people be pessimistic about the "mission in iraq"?

people are getting killed everyday.
soldiers are being killed everyday.
their cities were attacked and bombed.
Iraqis are not exactly jumping for joy at their "liberation"
and there certainly does not seem to be any big caches of WMD's to
be found, though it was promised time and time again, with 100%
certainty, both before and after the war.

it seems that PD was very right to be skeptical of the motivations
for going to Iraq. no one said "we need to bomb and invade Iraq because
Saddam Hussein is evil" - it was all about the "WMD's" that don't seem
to exist. I supported it because it seemed logical that there was
something to be found. seeing what happened, whats happening and
seeing the uncertainty ahead, i cant say that i would have made the same
decision if i knew then, what i know today.

[Mike AI]

JR combat operations are still going on in Iraq. Bush claimed and end to MAJOR military action - meaning the thousands of air sorties flown a day, huge tank manuevers, etc... But small unit warfare is still going on, and probably will for awhile. It happens after all wars....

This has happened after all wars - after spanish american war, in philipeans, in cuba, all the way through Iraq.

What is REALLY sad is more people are murdered in the US in a day - 43 a day average....

We need to put things into perspective.... our enemys know we have become a week country and hope by still picking off an American soldier will get us to leave - like Somolia.... that is the thinking the World has on us.

It is time to change, and let people know we now stay to the end.... we finish what we start,and will not be chased away.

It has to be done eventually, or we will never "win" another war again....

[JR]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Aug 25 2003, 06:37 AM
JR combat operations are still going on in Iraq. Bush claimed and end to MAJOR military action - meaning the thousands of air sorties flown a day, huge tank manuevers, etc... But small unit warfare is still going on, and probably will for awhile. It happens after all wars....

This has happened after all wars - after spanish american war, in philipeans, in cuba, all the way through Iraq.

What is REALLY sad is more people are murdered in the US in a day - 43 a day average....

We need to put things into perspective.... our enemys know we have become a week country and hope by still picking off an American soldier will get us to leave - like Somolia.... that is the thinking the World has on us.

It is time to change, and let people know we now stay to the end.... we finish what we start,and will not be chased away.

It has to be done eventually, or we will never "win" another war again....

i dont disagree with any of that. all i was saying was that if i knew then what i know now, i would probably have felt differently about the whole thing.

the whole issue of not finding weapons, while that was the entire justification for going to war, is something i am not real comfortable with. it does not say much for the competence of the Bush Administration, no matter how you look at it.

[wig]

JR, what do you think happened to them?

[JR]

Originally posted by wig@Aug 25 2003, 06:49 AM
JR, what do you think happened to them?

i dont know. its already a moot point. the US is there, the war came and went. the Administration and military commanders were absolutely certain they would "have some major finds" , and had "more than 1000 sites to inspect" yada yada yada - and so far have came up with nothing and have been so discouraged that they scaled back their efforts long ago.

now the US and Britain is there and they cannot leave. no matter how unpopular it gets, they cannot leave. no matter how bad it gets, how many soldiers get killed, no matter how many terrorist acts their are... they cannot leave. the situation is not reversible.

i am not saying that there were a lot of easy choices to make. there clearly wasn't. certainly not after 12 years of fumbling the entire issue.

browse through the video files here to see how bad it can get...
http://www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/video/





Last edited by JR at Aug 25 2003, 07:00 AM

[Vick]

another important aspect .....

How will we (The USA) view this operation in 10 years?

JR - I respectfully disagree with your statement " the war came and went"

We are still at war in Iraq

[Mike AI]

From what I understand and have read - there has been a lot of things collected, and a report will be issues middle of September that exposes a lot of the WMD research, including Nuclear.... it is being claimed to be a smoking gun.

We shall see....

Of course those who do not want to beleive, those who were against the war and Bush from day 1 will try to spin all the evidence, and say its just a cover up, etc....

They make it too easy tp predict.....

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Vick@Aug 25 2003, 09:59 AM
How will we (The USA) view this operation in 10 years?

Depends on what happens next.

Biggest checklist

1. Will Saddam be caught?
2. Will there be consistent elections?

[wig]

Originally posted by JR+Aug 25 2003, 09:57 AM-->