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CNN via AP. 6.18.03 "The former plaintiff known as "Jane Roe" in the 1973 U.S. Supreme Court case that legalized abortion sought to have the case overturned in a motion filed Tuesday that asks the courts to consider new evidence that abortion hurts women. "
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McCorvey and her attorneys asked the federal court to consider more than 5,400 pages of evidence, including 1,000 affidavits from women who say they regret their abortions.
Ok, so I feel a little sorry for those women who regret their abortions, but I don't see how overturning Roe v. Wade is going to help them. It ain't going to bring back their aborted babies, so they'll still be dealing with their regrets while thousands of other women would be forced into illegal abortions or worse.
The majority of women who've had abortions do NOT regret their decision; why should all of womankind be denied access because there's a minority that finds it difficult to live with their own bad decisions?
Originally posted by Rox@Jun 18 2003, 09:28 AM The majority of women who've had abortions do NOT regret their decision; why should all of womankind be denied access because there's a minority that finds it difficult to live with their own bad decisions?
You mean you think people should be responsible for their own decisions ????
Did anyone catch the fact that BEFORE she got pregnant with the child she gave up for adoption -- the one during Roe, that she had already GIVEN UP TWO previous children?
Originally posted by *KK*@Jun 18 2003, 03:56 PM That woman is nearly certifiable.
Did anyone catch the fact that BEFORE she got pregnant with the child she gave up for adoption -- the one during Roe, that she had already GIVEN UP TWO previous children?
For fucks sake, show a little responsibility.
No shit, huh, KK? And it's not as though the Pill was unheard of at the time...
Norma apparently had a hard time keeping her legs closed or something, so all women should be punished?
I think that you might be overcome with pro-abortion fervor. It hasn't been too long since she publicly admitted that she wasn't even pregnant at the time of Roe v Wade....
Originally posted by Colin@Jun 19 2003, 06:58 AM Torone, you are anti-abortion?
I am. This crap about 'it's her body' is too lopsided. 'It's her body; but we strongly suggest an abortion'. 'It's her body'; but that only applies where abortion is concerned. It doesn't apply to other things (prostitution, for instance).
Further, I am against Roe v Wade on principle...it is the shining example of judicial legislation. Laws are supposed to be made by legislatures and INTERPRETED by the courts. Also, the case had a fictitious plaintiff claiming a fictious pregnancy; and the Warren court didn't even pick up on the fraud.
Forget religion, I am an agnostic. I have already heard of a mother in another country who murdered her 5-year-old and walked because she claimed it was a 'retroactive abortion'.
Originally posted by Colin@Jun 19 2003, 08:07 AM Torone,
You've really gone the whole way with the conservative thing. Why aren't you against porn?
I agree with you that "it's her body" is a weak and inconsistent with the rest of law argument. I am pro-abortion for probably no good reason at all.
Being conservative doesn't mean what Libs like to say it means. There are some Conservatives out there who are anti-porn, just as there are a few Democrats who will actually admit to being religious. Answer this: Which politician of any party has come out in favor of porn?
I submit that porn would not be attractive to any of them, anymore than doing away with Social Security...
Originally posted by Torone@Jun 19 2003, 09:48 AM Answer this: Which politician of any party has come out in favor of porn?
Answer - none.
Now, you riddle me this, reactionary man ... which political political party counts as a core constituency people who ferverently believe that 9/11 was allowed by God because of the sinful nature of American Society today? Which political party didn't limit itself to the obligatory anti-porn plank in its platform, but actively campaigns on promised to do something about porn?
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Originally posted by Torone@Jun 19 2003, 09:48 AM Being conservative doesn't mean what Libs like to say it means. There are some Conservatives out there who are anti-porn, just as there are a few Democrats who will actually admit to being religious.
Sure, there are pro-choice conservatives and pro-life democrats too. If one has to include 100% in either category, then there is no such thing as either a conservative or a liberal and we have nothing to discuss.
As far as politicians, that is very true. It would be a rare politican indeed who stands up for porn and obviously there are many "conservatives" in favor of porn as the porn industry itself demonstrates.
So what is your argument that abortion should be illegal?
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Now answer this.... which political political party counts as a core constituency people who ferverently believe that income is distributed, not earned? That rich people either inherited wealth, were lucky or cheated to get rich, rather than worked for it.
And who also believe that it is okay for the government to plunder; taking money from those who have it in order to give it to those who don’t?
Now answer this.... which political political party counts as a core constituency people who ferverently believe that income is distributed, not earned? That rich people either inherited wealth, were lucky or cheated to get rich, rather than worked for it.
I don't believe either party does, although I recoginze the liberRepublican rhetoric. Probably it's NOT the party who believes that the capitalist pigs are exploiting the masses, enriching the fat-cats at the expense of the common man. (I don't believe there is a mainstream political party advocating that position either, although I'm aware that there are morons and nitwits who bark up that tree too.)
Quote:
And who also believe that it is okay for the government to plunder; ...taking money from those who have it in order to give it to those who don’t?
Oh, puhhh-leaze. One man's "plunder" is another's vital national interest. I don't think much of that logic, whether you are ranting and raving about the revenuers giving your hard earned money to them or the robber barons stealing the money for their own enrichment and to feed the war machine to kill small brown people. Frankly, I don't see much difference between the two points of view.
All I was trying to point out is that attempts to depict the Republican and Democratic attitudes toward porn as "equal" are more than a little disengenuous.
Last edited by PornoDoggy at Jun 19 2003, 10:53 AM
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C'mon PD.... Embrace your Democrat-ness and admit that you are a Socialist!
Admit that the core constituency of the Democrats believes that they should get a piece of someone elses money through government seizure and distribution.
Are you blind to the pandering of Democrats to this group?
You are entitled to believe that I am a socialist. You are entitled to believe that a bicycle is a parachute, too. The former delusion is much safer than the latter.
I am very much a Democrat, and don't deny that in the least- haven't for years. I am not now, nor have I ever been a socialist (although some have said I was antisocial; but, with medication ... ).
I used to work for a law firm that represented a fair portion of the Fortune 100. I've helped defend them from everything from class action suits, product liability lawsuits, environmental lawsuits, and employment and other kinds of discrimination suits. Didn't bother me in the least - even when they were guilty as hell. Why, I might have made a dollar or two when I did that - probably not much by the standards of many folks on this board, but enough.
Extremists on the left want to eliminate private enterprise. Extremists on the right want to put EVERYTHING in the hands of private enterprise. Anyone with a clue would realize that the ultimate result of either extreme is essentially the same thing. I don't care much for the pseudophilosophy whether its the fantasy of collectivism or the delusion of the benevolence of the unchecked "invisible hand."
Let me put it to you this way. I don't have much formal education beyond high school, but I've read a book, maybe even two or three- a lot of it history.
For a hundred years or more the left has been predicting the destruction of America at the hands of the greedy capitalist pigs and their war machine. For a hundred years the right has been predicting the destruction of America at the hands of creeping socialism. Last time I checked America is alive and well and kickin'. The whiners on both sides are still whining and screaming about their oppression and predicting imminent doom.
And they are just as full of shit now as they ever have been.
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Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Jun 19 2003, 11:52 AM For a hundred years or more the left has been predicting the destruction of America at the hands of the greedy capitalist pigs and their war machine. For a hundred years the right has been predicting the destruction of America at the hands of creeping socialism. Last time I checked America is alive and well and kickin'. The whiners on both sides are still whining and screaming about their oppression and predicting imminent doom.
And they are just as full of shit now as they ever have been.
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Originally posted by Torone@Jun 19 2003, 03:55 AM I think that you might be overcome with pro-abortion fervor. It hasn't been too long since she publicly admitted that she wasn't even pregnant at the time of Roe v Wade....
I think you've been sniffing the paint again pal.
I don't think anyone is pro- or anti- abortion. I think that sane, rational people can agree that abortion is NOT a substitute for birth control.
People are either pro-choice or not pro-choice in this issue, that is what it boils down to. If you had a 12 year old daughter who was raped by a cracked out doper and she ended up pregnant, I highly doubt that you'd want to force her to have a baby under those circumstances.
By that same token, and I'm sure you'll find your way to attempting to correct me here, how can you call something alive that has zero ability to sustain it's own life, as is the case in the early stages of pregnancy. I'm sorry, but your dog has a better chance of staying alive if you don't feed it than a 4 week old embryo does -- someone made the analogy to a houseplant -- if YOU dont water it then it dies -- which is a bit harsh but also very fitting as a description.
Of all the pro-choice people I know, we all have our limits as to how far that choice should exist. Do I personally think someone that's 30 weeks along should be able to abort as a matter of convenience? No. But if the law says they can then you know what? They can.
You are too funny Torone, I can't wait to see you fall off your high horse and break your tailbone on your soapbox when you land.
Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Jun 19 2003, 10:08 AM which political political party counts as a core constituency people who ferverently believe that 9/11 was allowed by God because of the sinful nature of American Society today?
I give up
Which party?
Please tell me because I don't want to go to their party. I'm afraid of what they would serve in the kool-aid
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