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| Legacy Archived Main Board Business chat and general industry chat. All participation is welcome. Dont post your fucking spam here. |
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05-22-2003
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#1 |
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Members
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Six Feet Under
Posts: 2,150
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Would paysite be ready to accept alternative payment options, which prehaps pay less, and maybe are not as "flexible" as credit cards (ex. trial/recurring billing)?
But the risk of accepting these alternative payment options would be less, and might even bring in more total new members? Most paysites and sponsor programs are build on the "credit card" signup model, but what if credit cards would become very risky to accept, and alternative payment options would be there... would paysites use them? Would sponsor programs be ready to offer lower payout per new member on these alternative payment options?
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"Chaos is the law of nature, order is the dream of man." ~Henry B. Adams (Historian) 1838-1918 |
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05-22-2003
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#2 |
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Members
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,156
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Arent most sponsor programs using alternative signup methods such as ach and web900?
And sure.. i imagine if cc's went away you'd see a drop in payouts... and signups would go down.
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05-22-2003
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#3 |
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Members
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Six Feet Under
Posts: 2,150
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Yes - paysites already have a few options, but usual they are looked at as 2nd choice. CC´s are still the number 1 option on most paysites, but would CC´s be replaced or prehaps just moved to 2nd choice, if visa/mc rules and risks become too great?
I have seen some sites move online checks to their number 1 option on US traffic, but because there are no really "global" alternative payment option (ok maybe dialers, but they mostly suck these days), then it stops with the US traffic. What if there were real alternative options? (beside dialers)... I do not know if Visa/Mastercard really wants to be a "player" in the adult transaction industry, but I do know that there are ALOT of other payment options out there who would love to get more business.
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"Chaos is the law of nature, order is the dream of man." ~Henry B. Adams (Historian) 1838-1918 |
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05-22-2003
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#4 |
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Members
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,156
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what other payment options do you suggest for us based transactions rolo?
you seem to have some thoughts on the issue. i'm all ears.
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05-22-2003
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#5 |
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Members
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Down Under
Posts: 5,202
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me too ...
but i'm all eyes ;-) Rolo, you sound like you are thinking and I'd love to see inside your head ... you've always had some really good points to make about running paysites ... please share! |
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05-22-2003
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#6 |
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Members
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Six Feet Under
Posts: 2,150
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We made some research 1½ year ago regarding alternative payment options. I just finished reading what we had thought of back then. Our plan was not to get rid of CC´s, but to lower the total amount of transactions/members Visa/Mastercard would receive.
US was/is still the land of CC´s, ACH and #900, but international we had a few good ideas, which I will research again... I think we droped the plans back then, because we were not sure if our webmasters were ready for a lower payout per member. But I´m guessing that webmasters are ready for solutions, which gives them security rather then the promise of a few more risky dollars in their pocket.
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"Chaos is the law of nature, order is the dream of man." ~Henry B. Adams (Historian) 1838-1918 |
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05-22-2003
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#7 |
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Members
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,156
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Then unfortunately you havent reached any new conclusions regarding usa customers.
the usa is currently the biggest purchaser online. and since most isps are paid via credit card, it makes cc the primary way. i'm curious what % of surfers have discover cards. dont know much about them but they never get mentioned with regards to the cb's and rfs. anybody know?
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05-22-2003
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#8 |
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Fat Fucking Nobody
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Join Date: Oct 2002
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Didn't we just do this thread a couple of weeks ago in relation to ePassporte?
Credit cards are going to be the preferred method of payment for as long as we have a way to process them....even if recurring goes away. The reason is that is what most of our would-be customers have in their pocket and are most comfortable using on the net. ACH is second choice, again because most people have a checking account. It might would contend for preferred choice if the banks would all play nice and come up with a common way to verify funds availability if not go ahead and transfer the money in realtime. Everything else is a distant third. *But* webmaster acceptance isn't the real challenge. The real challenge is USER acceptance. Whatever comes about, whether it be a true prepaid card or a prepaid broker system ala paypal, has to have a critical mass of users in order to work. The trick is how do you get it into the hands of a critical mass of users. Paypal did it. But they do not want to play with us anymore. Paypal saw the need for person to person payments on Ebay and rode that wave. Same thing might happen in adult if MC/Visa totally ban adult entertainment transactions online. Without that, no one has managed to solved the puzzle. Many people have tried, some have come close, but no one has yet found the magic combination. ePassporte is trying to solve it right now. I was involved with a pre-paid venture last year that had a real shot, and I'm sure most all of the processors have at least brainstormed alternate payment concepts. I almost think the solution has to come from outside the adult arena and has to grow it's legs elsewhere. When it comes to money, trust is a key factor with consumers, and they do not trust the online adult marketplace....as an industry we've pissed in the well way too often with things like bullshit free signups that result in never ending rebills, etc. Last edited by Hell Puppy at May 22 2003, 10:10 PM |
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05-22-2003
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#9 | ||
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Members
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,997
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Quote:
And i believe Discover has something like less than 5% of the market. But i am doing a little to increase that. In the past year sold almost 1000 new discover accounts. what about charge2000.com ? I only see CEN using them on everysite. I know from my own trials that did add some more revenue.
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05-22-2003
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#10 | |
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Members
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,997
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and whatever happened with atmbilling.com ?
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05-22-2003
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#11 |
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Members
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,156
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charge2000 seemed ok. we got them to set us up but they wouldnt post the data back to us and some various other small technical problems made them unusable.
after we told them that their solution wouldnt work as is they had the gall to send us a bill for their time involved with setup. honestly. they have a good product. they need an english speaking technically minded rep to represent them and help deal with clients... even the brief emails i had with them were almost incoherent as english is not their first language. atmbilling?... well that particular domain/company itself.. i think it was a casualty of war over at cen... but the concept while enchanting is much like cc processing.. it's run by a few companies that control everything. recurring billing isnt possible with it, and they are very much against the idea of somebody else getting the pin number of a consumer. you'll notice that there is not a single signatureless (telephone mail order, fill out the paper form with a signature even) atm card processor... for them signatureless doesnt exist.. if the pin # is entered, the customer made the purchase. in the end i believe that they pulse/atm network just wont let it happen 
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05-23-2003
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#12 |
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Members
Respin bullshit press Your Comments Are Welcomed
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,581
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HellPuppy, you are dead on right, gonzo and I have had some ongoing phone conversations about the whole situation...
There are two sides to EVERY payment method out there -- issuing and acquiring -- makes no difference if we are talking cash or magic beans or virtual first born children... you have to have end users who want to pay with the method and you have to have merchants willing to take it. Paypal's problem is and was very simple. Their fraud control would make most of your hairs stand on end, once you got thru laughing. While I realize why they do it the way they do, adult is an animal that does not work in their setup, I can only begin to imagine what their csr's went through dealing with it. They do some things exceptionally well and they've decided to focus on those profitable things, and expand on them. With 27 million registered users, they should be able to do alot more, but I can't blame them for focusing on what makes them money and dropping what does not... |
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05-23-2003
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#13 |
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Members
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,248
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I realize that this may be construed as biased, but here are my thoughts...
Consumers want a product and they will find a way to pay for it. Yes, credit cards are the primary payment vehicle, although it is clear that they have been losing ground for several years. Credit cards are, in fact, credit. It is much more palatable to spend money that you do not necessarily have to repay immediately. The world is a credit driven society, especially in the US which is the major consumer base. Every credit card holder in the US has a checking account. There are also 10's of millions of ppl in the US that do not have a credit card but do have a checking account. |
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05-23-2003
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#14 |
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Members
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,248
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BTW, regarding ATM billing, here is a similar solution and the story...
Currently, there is a product that allows a merchant at the POS to verify and perform a real-time debit via a checking or savings account. However, there are two current snags: 1 - It is not scheduled to be released for non face-to-face transactions until later this year. 2 - It is dependent on the banks to code up to the initiative. Currently, it is only a handful of the top e-draw banks, so the coverage is well below 50% of the DDA accounts in the US. The difference between this product and the ATM billing idea is that this one is real and that it will not remove the revocation rights of the consumer (as a PIN code does with an ATM card). It will be a method to verify accounts and funds availability, as well as perform a real-time debit. Rest assured that WTS will be offering this to our merchants as soon as it is available! |
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05-23-2003
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#15 |
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Members
$100 for every ImLive sign-up
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 4,036
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The end of "recurring" billing wouldn't be the end of the adult membership sites, quite the opposite. I think you would see more sites offer a 2 - 3 month membership in the $60 range, with a webmaster payout in the $25-$30 range. I can also see sites going to a one time, $9.95 for a week type thing, with a $3 or so webmaster payout.
The internet in general and adult business in particular looks at these issues as a "network problem" and will find routes around it. There is huge demand for porn, enough people willing to pay, etc. Alex
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05-23-2003
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#16 |
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Members
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,156
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thats a great idea alex cept that when you cross the $40.00 threshhold on billing your chargebacks skyrocket.
If a VBV type system was in place then you would see something similar I bet.
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05-23-2003
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#17 | |
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Fat Fucking Nobody
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Quote:
Im going to test that theory out with a cheap content site and see just how many webmasters will go the extra step get bother with getting that card in order to buy the cheap stuff. My guess is that it will create a landslide of email asking me why I dont take pay pal or use a regular credit card processor. I hope Kimmy and that crew over there finds a way to give webmasters incentives to do more than use them on a p2p/b2b basis. I still think...as biased as it is that there is a huge opening for a prepaid card for the industry. Fuck having a MC or a Visa logo on it. I dont know if there is a way you can "ride the processing rails" without putting those logos on the cards... I do know that there is a way around that too. Matter of fact I think Hell Puppy has that half of the deck.
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We are putting the bastards of this world on notice; greed and corruption will always be met with "a voice made of ink and rage." "Never try and be like anyone else" - Hunter S. Thompson "The truth is the truth no matter how you try and package a lie" - Shellee Hale
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05-23-2003
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#18 |
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Members
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: South Florida
Posts: 2,087
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Is someone creating "MasterPorn" card? lol
Why the hell not? I know I've said this before on another rant & the same people were in the thread. If the CC companies get any worst then this, any more 3 party people pull the plug, we're not going to have a choice. There was a lame program around called Token Systems. Well in the future it might not be so lame after all. CC are good because for the most part their global. As long as someone has one they can purchase credits, tokens or anything esle. Reminds me of the BBS days when they wouldn't issue us credit cards. Not in the begining anyhow. You had to wait for checks AND a copy of driver license. You had to do the SAME damn thing with videos and magazines. It didn't stop people from buying LOTS of porn. I did a killer mail order business back then. Finally they allowed BBS's to accept credit cards and a company called Logicom was the first to provide software to process real time transactions for membership access. That company became Ibill. No shit.
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05-23-2003
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#19 | ||
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Fat Fucking Nobody
Want to see your own Advertising Here!
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,523
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Quote:
If you solve the business and tech issues, to get the users to accept a card like that it would need to have some name recognition. Playboy or maybe Hustler could pull off branding a card...especially if the transaction partner on the back end was also someone respected from the financial or tech side. Quote:
Some genius there saw some extra money in providing processing to BBS operators and other non-face-to-face merchants. Most florist transactions are done over the phone, so they were used to not having a card to swipe. But they eventually stopped taking adult and then ultimately went back to exclusively dealing with florists. Just another blast from the past... One thing is for certain though, people will always pay for porn, but the more convenient it is, the more will do so. We made money back in the day having people mail in checks and money orders for manual processing. But business jumped tenfold or better when we went to credit cards and instant gratification. |
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05-26-2003
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#20 | |
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Fat Fucking Nobody
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Quote:
In 1984, I can assure you this was considered Ultra Suave.
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We are putting the bastards of this world on notice; greed and corruption will always be met with "a voice made of ink and rage." "Never try and be like anyone else" - Hunter S. Thompson "The truth is the truth no matter how you try and package a lie" - Shellee Hale
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05-26-2003
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Fat Fucking Nobody
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Quote:
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