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This is amazing, and mindboggling.
Not to mention this really pisses me off.
They come here, have kids, we have to pay
for them, they take jobs for money under
the table so they dont pay taxes.
If we would just start executing them
when they are found, it would eliminate
this plague we have here.
I can't wait to see the national guard deployed as re-enforcements for the border guards... that will happen as soon as someone in "homeland security" figures out the border is more holy than the pope.
Then the plague of illegal immigration will go down a whole bunch... right now it is politically incorrect to block out Mexican refugees too much, bush wants the Latino vote, doesn't want to piss them off.
Alex
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because someone is an illegal immigrant they deserve to die? Because they or their kids will never contribute anything to society? Hmm..simplistic comes to mind at the very least.
Originally posted by originalheather@Feb 1 2003, 07:05 AM
Quote:
If we would just start executing them
when they are found, it would eliminate
this plague we have here.
That has to be the most cretinous remark I've ever seen on any webmaster board.
"Yup, BillyJoeBob....just shoot the fuckin' beaners...yup, that there's the answer to gettin' them fuckin' spics out of our trailer park.'
I find your characterization of our latina and latino residents as "beaners" to be offensive. Please refrain from such characterizations in the future.
For the record, I was talking about illegals in whole, wasnt
focusing on one nationality thank you very much.
Heather, My opinion, dont like it, dont read it.
I have my reasons for disliking this whole deal, but
you wouldnt understand.
If you want to support them on your own, be my guest
but if YOU or I was caught in a foreign country illegally
what do you think would happen.
You know, hell with it, you dont like me, or my comments,
no sweat off my ass.
Hmmm ... how are you going to define immigrant, Voodoo? There are some folks with sentiments similiar to what you expressed in your post who define it as 3rd generation. They also have a problem with blacks, asians, jews, and catholics, and have a tendency to dress in white.
And JMM ... I truly hope you were being sarcastic in reponse to heather's sarcasm. If not, consider Sylvan Learning Centers for some reading comprehension help.
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Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Feb 1 2003, 03:25 PM Hmmm ... how are you going to define immigrant, Voodoo?
Take the word "immigrant" out of the equation and let's just use the word "illegal"
Edited to add that I'm not agreeing with Voodoo that they need to be killed, but just pointing out that I didn't see him talking about immigrants - I saw him referring to ILLEGAL immigrants.
You are quite right, Peaches, and that was my bad ... sorry, but when people start talking about executing folks trying to better their lives I tend to overreact.
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Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Feb 1 2003, 03:36 PM You are quite right, Peaches, and that was my bad ... sorry, but when people start talking about executing folks trying to better their lives I tend to overreact.
True and I have no problem with people trying to better their lives - legally.
I don't have respect for the American that robs the bank or sells drugs in order to better their lives either, so I'm not against the illegal immigrants because they're immigrants - I'm just against ALL folks breaking laws by taking from others.
Got out of bed, wasn't feeling too good
With my wallet and my passport, a new pair of shoes
The sun is shining so I head for the park,
With a bottle of Tequila, and a new pack of cigarettes
I got a cousin and she got a friend,
Who thought that her aunt knew a man who could help
At his apartment I knocked on the door,
he wouldn't come out until he got paid.
Now don't tell anybody what I wanna do
if they find out you know that they'll never let me through.
It's no fun being an illegal alien
It's no fun being an illegal alien
Down at the office had to fill out the forms
A pink one, a red one, the colours you choose,
Up to the counter to see what they think
They said 'It doesn't count man, it ain't written in ink'.
Don't trust anybody least not around here, cos
It's no fun being an illegal alien
It's no fun being an illegal alien
So don't tell anybody what I wanna do
If they find out you know that they'll never let me through.
It's no fun being an illegal alien,
It's no fun being an illegal alien,
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I once wanted to be a Gynecologist
But I couldn't find an opening
The crops are all in and the peaches are rotting
The oranges piled up in their creosote dumps
You're flying 'em back to the Mexican border
To spend all their money to wade back again
Goodbye to my Juan, goodbye Rosalita
Adios mis amigos Jesus y Maria
You wont have a name when you ride the big airplane
All they will call you will be ";deportees";
Some of us are illegal, and others not wanted
Our work contracts up and we have to move on
600 miles to that Mexican border
They chase us like outlaws, like rustlers, like thieves
Goodbye to my Juan, goodbye Rosalita
Adios mis amigos Jesus y Maria
You wont have a name when you ride the big airplane
All they will call you will be ";deportees";
The skyplane caught fire over Los Gatos Canyon
A fireball of lightning, shook all our hills
Who are all these friends who are scattered like dry leaves
The radio said they were just ";deportees";
Goodbye to my Juan, goodbye Rosalita
Adios mis amigos Jesus y Maria
You wont have a name when you ride the big airplane
All they will call you will be ";deportees";
Last edited by PornoDoggy at Feb 1 2003, 03:21 PM
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Ok, I think what I said got blown out of proportion.
I used death as an extreme means, I wouldnt ever
shoot someone because they snuck into the usa.
But I do think that they should be tracked down,
and at least deported. Alot of these ILLEGAL immigrants,
commit crimes, but still, if caught they are only deported.
I am just curious, if we deport all of these illegal aliens, who is going to do all of the work that they do now? Will we have to pay "legal aliens" minimum wage to pick our fresh fruit? Basically, I think it is short sighted to discount the low cost labor that illegals provide our economy. If you think they are a problem, then I suggest that you go after their employers, afterall they are here for jobs, and if they could not get jobs, or if employers found it more cost effective to hire legals, then the problem would not exist.
It is a market economy, and as long as it is cheaper to hire illegals than legals, then we will always have illegals. As long as illegals will do the same work for less than legals, then there will always be an incentive to hire illegals as long as the costs of breaking the "laws" balances out to higher profits. If the cost of "legal" labor drives the profit margin too low, then perhaps we will have to do without the products that "illegal" labor provides.
Originally posted by Forest@Feb 1 2003, 03:02 PM I HATE the flood of Qubec Lisc plates here
and what the fuck does the saying on them mean?
je me souviens
"I remember"
Actually, technically it is "I remember me" but it is just a way it is said in French.
Alex
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I have to agree on the original problem mentioned.
We spend sooooo much money on illegal immigrants each year that it seems it would be cheaper to just put armed stations every 1/2 mile accross the southern border in Ca, Az, and Texas.
I read something a few years back that broke down the dollars we spend on them and what it would cost to just beef up the border patrol.
When an illegal alien comes accross the border pregnant and then has a baby here.. That baby is now a legal citizen and now the rest of the family can legally apply for green cards because the baby is a citizen. Dont quote me on the above but I read something really simular in Time or something a few years back. (while getting my oil changed) lol
There has to be something we can do. I pay 50% tax on my business and then another 50 on the money I get personally. Then I have to pay another 7.75% every time I buy something. Basically I keep about 20-30% of my money when all is said and done.
I am all for Flat tax..
Yea I understand it takes money to have the nice things we have in the states and thats all fine and dandy.
What gets me is that these people that come over from Mexico not only are they living 30 people in a home a lot of times but they collect wellfare, medical aid and everything else they can but then they go and work under the table so they never have to pay a dime.
LA Mike, more border patrol isn't politically correct these days, as it would "unfairly single out the illegal immigrants from hispanic countries..." which would cost the person putting into effect MANY votes come the next election.
On a short 4 year election cycle (shorted to about 2.5 years in power, 1.5 years campaigning), it is unlikely that anything will get done like this - add to that the off year elections in house and senate, and you pretty much don't have a time in American politics that people aren't sucking up for votes.
Considering that Bush got in with less of the popular vote, and the difference in Florida was VERY small all considered, the hispanic vote could have shifted the whole thing.
So, instead, you get to pay more taxes to support more illegal immigrants - fun, isn't it? :-)
Alex
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Let's go to the edge of disaster Push the pedal and go a little faster Let's slam into a wall at ramming speed Let's go to the edge of a mountain Jump off and lets start countin' Hit the ground and tell me if it bleeds
Originally posted by slavdogg@Feb 1 2003, 06:14 AM A Flat tax on all goods, will solve the problem.
I agree with this. I mean, come on, how much simplier can it get? If you can afford to spend you spend...if not, you don't.
Then again people will just find creative cash ways to buy things, right?
Voodooman you seem to forget that we all arrive here once because immigrants (at least part of my so-called amercian blood- the rest indian)
It was founded on freedom and now everyone wants to come here and since when do we sudden decide you can and who can't?
I do realise it's a tax sitution that needs to be solved. How much did you actually pay in taxes last year? It's funny because the people who bitch the loudest about this issue normally get refunds & money back. Ever notice that?
Like the cost of doing business life also has it's cost. When you assign a Hierarchy to man the ship, they better be ready to shift sails in foul weather.
You're such a sweet kind man and then you spit out this trash. It makes me wanna cry.
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Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Feb 1 2003, 02:36 PM You are quite right, Peaches, and that was my bad ... sorry, but when people start talking about executing folks trying to better their lives I tend to overreact.
PD, careful here...you know what they say about people in glass houses
Here's a quote from you on another subject: "I think that anyone who wants to sell debris should be allowed to sell it to NASA in exchange for very good seats to the next Shuttle launch. A nice wooden bleacher about 5 feet away from boosters would provide one hot view of the next launch, don't you think?"
hrmm...burning people to death just for selling some memorabilia...
ahh, i'm just messing with ya...i know you were just being sarcastic and expressing your disgust with people taking advantage of a bad situation...
hey voodooman, you are a sick, sick man...you ought to get out of the panhandle more often
Originally posted by Dianna Vesta@Feb 3 2003, 05:40 PM Voodooman you seem to forget that we all arrive here once because immigrants (at least part of my so-called amercian blood- the rest indian)
We didn't all arrive here once because of ILLEGAL immigrants. Folks - that's what he's talking about - ILLEGAL immigrants - be they the ones from Iraq where the Visa expired 6 months ago and they can't be found, or the Mexicans jumping the border, or the guy from Ireland that's too sloshed to remember to go back (I come from Dutch/German/English/Scottish/Irish stock - I can make fun of the Irish ).
Quote:
It was founded on freedom and now everyone wants to come here and since when do we sudden decide you can and who can't?
Again - the door is open - but we have laws here. If you can't obey the laws and you're not a legal immigrant or an American citizen, then you need to leave. If you can't obey the laws and you're a legal immigrant or an American citizen, then you need to go to jail. Why is it so darned hard to understand the difference between an ILLEGAL and LEGAL immigrant?
Quote:
I do realise it's a tax sitution that needs to be solved. How much did you actually pay in taxes last year? It's funny because the people who bitch the loudest about this issue normally get refunds & money back. Ever notice that?
Getting "money back" is a fallacy. If you work for a company that takes your taxes out of your paycheck (i.e. you're not self employed and paying taxes directly yourself) and you get a check from the IRS at the end of the year, you just lent the government YOUR money, interest free. You STILL pay the same amount of taxes.
Oh, and I paid a nice chunk of change last year in taxes and have since I was 16
Originally posted by Peaches@Feb 3 2003, 05:00 PM Getting "money back" is a fallacy. If you work for a company that takes your taxes out of your paycheck (i.e. you're not self employed and paying taxes directly yourself) and you get a check from the IRS at the end of the year, you just lent the government YOUR money, interest free. You STILL pay the same amount of taxes.
Oh, and I paid a nice chunk of change last year in taxes and have since I was 16
I agree with this part. The rest is a much large picture and many more agendas.
I don't pay my taxes until the very last minute. I wait til the end of the year. I sock the money away throughout the year in a money market account, I collect the interest and give them their money when it's due.
I can't remember getting money back. I'm sure I probably did when I was younger and any employers took the money out to give back to me later.
It's a stupid system. But these are the people who create the laws we all must abide by.
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Voodooman you seem to forget that we all arrive here once because immigrants (at least part of my so-called amercian blood- the rest indian)
It was founded on freedom and now everyone wants to come here and since when do we sudden decide you can and who can't
)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
DV,
No offense, really, But Im sick to death of people saying, well if
you look in your family tree, your actually Italia, or whatever.
Fuck that, I was born in the U.S.A so I am an american, no matter
where my ancestors came from. Period.
Peaches.....well said. Couldn't say it any better so why try.
I live in So. California and I see a LOT of illegals every day. I also know a lot of people who have come here legally from Mexico who are great contributors to society. I've gone to many nationalization ceremonies and cheered on new friends from other countries who have made good on their citizenship to America. That's not what we're talking about here - remember it is ILLEGAL. Not legal. People who cheat the system just like all those folks I used to see in Oakland living in the projects and driving a Mercedes or Lexus to cash their welfare checks every month.
Many years ago when our kids were little my husband lost his job. He was out of work for 6 months. We weren't making any money. We applied for some food stamps and medical for the kids - I was managing a small apartment complex in exchange for rent/utilities.
In the cubicle next to us a couple who had just illegally came to the US was applying for the "whole welfare package" - the woman told them not to worry about filling out the paperwork, she'd handle it - and if the didn't have SS #'s it was OK. The State of California was "there to help."
After filling out the forms ourselves twice, waiting a few weeks for an appointment, adding our Social Security numbers, disclosing our previous financial information, tax information and account data we were told that we didn't qualify for anything. Because I was the "bread-winning" spouse on our taxes the year before (I made more money than my husband) and was still "gainfully employed" as an apartment manager (I received NO CASH, only rent & utilities) that they could not help us. Where did all my taxes go?
What kind of bullshit is that??? I paid taxes. I paid Social Security. I am a LEGAL citizen. My husband served in the military. Yet I don't qualify for HELP when my family is down and out - but ILLEGAL people who have no previous record of contributing to the society that is helping them out DO???
Flat tax....sounds like a good idea. That might deter some who come here for a free ride, but more likely it would create a whole new black market for goods that are non-taxed by the government and sold only to illegals. For every solution there is a counter solution.
If there was ever a post I could take back, its this one.
The fact that there is SEVEN MILLION ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS living in
the United States doesnt mean that there are 7 million mexicans
living illegally here.
The girl I was seeing is mexican for christ sake. Stop trying to make
more of this that it really is.
Try getting someone here legally, then come and tell me Im out of
line in beliefs. (not about killing them though)
Sorry, for some people its obvious that I must paint a picture for them.
Originally posted by voodooman@Feb 3 2003, 05:40 PM I havent lived here in quite some time, in the last 4 years I have lived in Vegas, Miami, Palm Springs, New York.
Have pity on Voodooman if for nothing else that he was stuck out here in the Coachella Valley at one point. lol We've been out here for 6 years now...I think my brain has baked - lol Gosh how I miss the beach!
Originally posted by Dianna Vesta@Feb 3 2003, 01:40 PM
Voodooman you seem to forget that we all arrive here once because immigrants (at least part of my so-called amercian blood- the rest indian)
It was founded on freedom and now everyone wants to come here and since when do we sudden decide you can and who can't?
the government has always decided who can come and who cant. thats what the immigration process is EXACTLY. its a process to decide who can come and who cant.
do a cursury review of the many immigrant and non-immigrant visas available today for the US and their requirements and you will see that no one, particularly the US Goverment is interested in importing people from 3rd world countries who are using forged documents and often hiding a criminal past while intending to do nothing more than defraud the system.
US Visa officers at all US Consulates and Embassies worldwide can refuse a visa to anyone for any reason. they have no set guidelines and are not required to explain of why an application was refused. I was at the American Embassy in London the other day and it is no different than any other US embassy in the world... there was a line around the block, on the street of people with "appointments" waiting for their interview... and this is from one of the closet US allies.
its really great and wonderful to talk about the "wonderful contributions of immigrants" but its a little unfair to leave out narcotics smuggling, prostitution, human slaves, ripping off welfare and social security, international crime figures, weapons smugglers, terrorists, people who hate the US, people with long criminal pasts in their country of origin etc etc etc.... or people who "innocently" apply for a student visa so they can train to fly commercial jet liners into the World Trade Center and kill 3000 people.
the immigration process is a process that may not be "fair" in the utopianistic views of some, but its a process none the less that IS THE LAW. going around the law does not make it ok because "we all come from immigrants".
Well, since I've been watching this topic, I've seen a lot of excuses in favor of the ILLEGALS; but Damned little mention of the fact that they are, by definition, criminals (forget about race). They broke our laws to get here, whether it was to 'improve their life' or to join up with a terrorist cell.
As for the idea that they work cheaply, isn't that exploitation? And did anyone ever realize that the jobs they take might be the 'second job' for some poor person needing one to make ends meet?
I don't advocate executing them; but I do think that they should all be deported, no matter where they came from. How many of you knew that the anti-war demonstrations on MLK Day were partially backed and participated in by Iraqui's sent here for just exactly that purpose? Who do you think paid for all those signs and banners?
Originally posted by kath@Feb 3 2003, 04:02 PM After filling out the forms ourselves twice, waiting a few weeks for an appointment, adding our Social Security numbers, disclosing our previous financial information, tax information and account data we were told that we didn't qualify for anything. Because I was the "bread-winning" spouse on our taxes the year before (I made more money than my husband) and was still "gainfully employed" as an apartment manager (I received NO CASH, only rent & utilities) that they could not help us. Where did all my taxes go?
What kind of bullshit is that??? I paid taxes. I paid Social Security. I am a LEGAL citizen. My husband served in the military. Yet I don't qualify for HELP when my family is down and out - but ILLEGAL people who have no previous record of contributing to the society that is helping them out DO???
I had a similar experience several years ago. Laid off from my job, having to wait for Unemployment benefits to kick in, and with a 3 year old suffering from a rare disease -- mind you, I was only looking for medical coverage and maybe a few bucks in food stamps to feed my kid.
Though I had every document they could possibly require to show who we were and why we needed a little help, I was made to feel as though I had no business being there. By the third visit with a social worker, I was at the end of my rope and went OFF on her AND her manager (and I'm sure everyone in the place heard me -- not that they could understand me). "I have paid taxes in this state for 20 years, and all I'm looking for is enough to feed my kid and get her some medical treatment, and I'm being treated as though I'm trying to rip off the State. What the fuck? Tell me: Do I have to dye my hair black, speak with an accent and change my name to one that ends in a 'Z' to get some fucking help?"
Adding insult to injury, not only did I walk away that day no closer to getting any assistance, but I was chastised by the manager for using foul language AND "racial slurs." I told her that I wasn't sorry in the least, that the "system" drove rational people to the edge of sanity and they were lucky that bad language was the worst they had to deal with; and as for "racial slurs," what more could they expect when legal tax-paying citizens were left out in the cold while anyone who could run, jump or swim moved to the head of the line and got everything on MY dime.
I have NO problem with people coming here LEGALLY and trying to make a better life for themselves, especially since most of them do so by taking jobs the white folk would never lower themselves to. I DO think it's long past time that legal taxpayers are given precedence in their time of need. If the illegals looking for financial assistance can take the time to jump through the bureaucratic hoops at the Welfare office, they should damned well be required to take the time to do it at the INS office FIRST. I had to have all my paperwork in order before they'd even LOOK at my request and I was BORN here and paid tens of thousands of dollars in taxes prior to asking for a mere few months worth of help. I don't think my opinion that anyone else asking for assistance at least be able to prove they're here LEGALLY is unreasonable, and it's certainly not racist.
Good for you Rox - wish I would have had the "stones" to do what you did. My hub started to raise his voice but I stopped him - I guess I shoulda let him get it out there...we never did get the assistance we needed. Fortunately we found some awesome church charity that helped us out - and helped hub get a job to boot. We've been donating to that church ever since - so it was definitely a win-win for those folks.
I don't forget who helps me get back on my feet. Not ever.
I also don't forget who slapped me down. I never forget.
You are not paying FOR them, they are being paid low wages to do jobs most americans would not want to do. There are entire segements of American industry that could not survive if it weren't for these low wage immigrants.
So they take their meager salaries back to Mexico (after paying rent, taxes, money for American goods), if you want to worry about sending money outside the country focus on the fashion industry or toy industry now there some serious $$$ leakage.
Originally posted by Torone@Feb 4 2003, 10:07 AM I don't advocate executing them; but I do think that they should all be deported, no matter where they came from. How many of you knew that the anti-war demonstrations on MLK Day were partially backed and participated in by Iraqui's sent here for just exactly that purpose? Who do you think paid for all those signs and banners?
We MUST control our borders.
Probably by people who read Marx.
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So there is obviously a problem here.. Start with if you are arrested, and illegally in the USA, BAM! your ass is on a bus home (don't care where that may be.)
I agree that we need to beef up the border. This is not unfairly singling out the Mexican residents (and others) who want to sneak across our souther border. Is the North border under gaurded? Yes, but it is also snowed in and damn near impossible to sneak across half the year... As for the East and West, well we have lots of water taking care of them (and the coast gaurd)
As for no cheap labor.. Do away with the minimum wage and a good chunk of welfare. There are lots of unskilled people of every ethnicity in the country already, and they can do shit labor as good as anyone else.
Originally posted by HeadPimp@Feb 6 2003, 05:05 PM So there is obviously a problem here.. Start with if you are arrested, and illegally in the USA, BAM! your ass is on a bus home (don't care where that may be.)
Originally posted by HeadPimp@Feb 6 2003, 04:05 PM As for no cheap labor.. Do away with the minimum wage and a good chunk of welfare. There are lots of unskilled people of every ethnicity in the country already, and they can do shit labor as good as anyone else.
OK... so who haven't I pissed off?
Well it's an interesting concept in a Machiavellian kind of way. Why not just open Arbeit Macht Frei camps all over the place while you're at it
Well, I think we could all agree that at one time or another someone in our 'roots' was an immigrant. What I find interesting is that in the first half of the century it seems that all these people legitimized their entry and became citizens. This country is a success because of it's rich history of diversity.
I, however, think our current situation is fucked up. They're living here and not paying taxes, enjoying Medicaid, getting drivers licenses and evading our entire system of justice. We either need to kick them out or legitimize them all as participating the system and allow them to be here... then pehaps we could get a fresh start with out immigration laws.
01-31-2003
Folks - that's what he's talking about - ILLEGAL immigrants - be they the ones from Iraq where the Visa expired 6 months ago and they can't be found, or the Mexicans jumping the border, or the guy from Ireland that's too sloshed to remember to go back (I come from Dutch/German/English/Scottish/Irish stock - I can make fun of the Irish 
). 
:P 
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