TeenRevenue Sues RedTube for $40M

[RawAlex]

Actually Paul, the consumer decides only in part - when mob rules mentality runs amok, everyone thinks everything is free. But that can change pretty fast, consider:

http://www.thelocal.se/18770/20090409/

The rules changed in sweden recently, that makes downloading music from pirate sites (like TP risky - basically, you can be tracked down and found liable very easily now. Well, suddenly, paid downloadable music is seeing massive growth.

I wish some people in the porn business would wake up.

[tony404]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Actually Paul, the consumer decides only in part - when mob rules mentality runs amok, everyone thinks everything is free. But that can change pretty fast, consider:

http://www.thelocal.se/18770/20090409/

The rules changed in sweden recently, that makes downloading music from pirate sites (like TP risky - basically, you can be tracked down and found liable very easily now. Well, suddenly, paid downloadable music is seeing massive growth.

I wish some people in the porn business would wake up.

The problem with our industry alot of people made alot of money inspite of themselves. Things have been starting to change for a few years and they started to panic. When you have a business model that's based on giving so much of the sale as commission for life.Unless you have huge numbers that business model starts to fail. So alot people attached themselves to tubes instead of fighting. You never saw the music industry flying ads on pirate sites. lol

[Paul Markham]

Yes Alex the customer can only buy what he can afford, wants and is available. But he's still king of this castle.

I wish some people in the porn business would wake up.

As I said if they bring down illegal Tubes they will be replaced by legal ones. The only way is to make the product fit the buyers needs more than Tubes. More content, better content, more varied content, flexible joins and freebies like live shows and dating. You need only tip the balance between profit and loss to make it work. You don't need all the free loaders to come and buy memberships. They never did, never will and we don't want them to. We want them burning the Tubes BW. Traffic + not enough sales = loss.

Take the profit margins out of running any kind of Tube and they sink.

You never saw the music industry flying ads on pirate sites.

The record industry is run by businessmen and people who understand the concept of marketing. Not people who will fill sites with enough content, legal or not, to deter customers from buying. Then tell you the solution is to get more traffic.

[griffin8r]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

The record industry is run by businessmen and people who understand the concept of marketing.

I don't know a ton about the porn industry, but I can tell you, unequivocally, that the record industry is NOT run by people who understand 21st century marketing. It is run by people who have learned that forcing something down the public's throat is the only way to make money.

Seriously, the RIAA marginalized talented musicians because talented musicians may or may not sell records, and they are generally a pain in the ass to deal with (read: they won't just sign an ass-fucking of a contract with a big goofy grin on their faces) in favor of cookie-cutter bullshit they could easily just "recruit" (read: idiots that look good but have no talent) and "polish in the studio" (read: Autotune + dance lessons)

The music industry is suffering just as bad, if not worse, than the porn industry because they just don't fucking get that people will NOT spend $20 for a CD that includes ONE decent song and a bunch of crap - especially when that ONE song is questionable, at best...

Just my $5.73 (two cents, adjusted for inflation...)

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by griffin8r

I don't know a ton about the porn industry, but I can tell you, unequivocally, that the record industry is NOT run by people who understand 21st century marketing. It is run by people who have learned that forcing something down the public's throat is the only way to make money.

Seriously, the RIAA marginalized talented musicians because talented musicians may or may not sell records, and they are generally a pain in the ass to deal with (read: they won't just sign an ass-fucking of a contract with a big goofy grin on their faces) in favor of cookie-cutter bullshit they could easily just "recruit" (read: idiots that look good but have no talent) and "polish in the studio" (read: Autotune + dance lessons)

The music industry is suffering just as bad, if not worse, than the porn industry because they just don't fucking get that people will NOT spend $20 for a CD that includes ONE decent song and a bunch of crap - especially when that ONE song is questionable, at best...

Just my $5.73 (two cents, adjusted for inflation...)

So don't buy the CD and don't steal it.

One of the reasons they are reluctant to sign bands who are on the edge of making a profit is because their profits are slashed by the piracy.

Music piracy is rife so it seems these albums that are so bad are worth downloading for free.

The part of your statement about cookie cutter bullshit also shows how young you are. They have been doing this since the 50s. I don't know about before because I'm only 58.

Your post is one of the typical ones to justify theft. The reason people steal is because they think they can get away with it. They never care about the people they hurt. Recently a friend of mine lost his job in the music industry, because of piracy, he also is now bankrupt and has lost his house. Is that his fault or the people who decided to steal instead of buy?

Also many of the greatest bands of the 20th Century are suffering from piracy. So it seems thieves don't just steal the bad, they steal the great as well.

The power of the consumer is in the fact that he can direct and shape and industry by buying what he likes. When he stops buying he has no say in what direction that industry takes to keep as many people in work as possible.

[griffin8r]

The part of your statement about cookie cutter bullshit also shows how young you are. They have been doing this since the 50s. I don't know about before because I'm only 58.

1) I'm not as young as you think I am.
2) I'm a music history and music theory buff, and play several instruments. I recognize cookie cutter bullshit everywhere in rock music. Chord progressions that have been beaten into the ground, melodies that are anything but, bands that self-copy (Nickelback, anyone?), bands that copy other bands (Def Leppard/Nazareth ripoff back in 1988), it goes on, and on, and on, and on.

Your post is one of the typical ones to justify theft. The reason people steal is because they think they can get away with it. They never care about the people they hurt. Recently a friend of mine lost his job in the music industry, because of piracy, he also is now bankrupt and has lost his house. Is that his fault or the people who decided to steal instead of buy?

Slow down there, partner, I'm not advocating theft of intellectual property. The piracy issue is a whole separate issue, and one that the industry could have dealt with swiftly back when it first started cropping up - not by suing everyone, but by embracing the digital delivery system and implementing legal pay-for-download sites back when MP3.com and Napster were still in their infancy.

The culture of illegal downloading developed back then because people were sick of buying CDs because of a single they heard, and finding out that single was the only song worth hearing on the CD. There were no other options for checking out the album beforehand in the mid 90's, unless you were lucky enough to have a local record shop that still accepted returns.

Again, I don't condone it, but I see why it happened.

Also many of the greatest bands of the 20th Century are suffering from piracy. So it seems thieves don't just steal the bad, they steal the great as well.

Sure, and it's absolutely wrong. However, thieves also steal and hack software regularly, some of the biggest names in the software industry (Adobe CS4 anyone?) and yet the software industry goes on, undaunted, because they continue to make quality products that professionals buy. The music industry could take a lesson from this.

The power of the consumer is in the fact that he can direct and shape and industry by buying what he likes. When he stops buying he has no say in what direction that industry takes to keep as many people in work as possible.

You are absolutely correct. Personally, I prefer to do my shopping for music in the underground scene - better variety, better prices on CD's, production might be a bit shaky from time to time, but the songwriting and stylistic approaches in many cases are more honest. There's something inherently satisfying about listening to a raw recording of an honest songwriter, versus a slicked-up production of someone who can't sing without electronic help trying to sing a song they didn't write, over music they didn't produce. (Barbara Mason, anyone?)

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by griffin8r

1) I'm not as young as you think I am.
2) I'm a music history and music theory buff, and play several instruments. I recognize cookie cutter bullshit everywhere in rock music. Chord progressions that have been beaten into the ground, melodies that are anything but, bands that self-copy (Nickelback, anyone?), bands that copy other bands (Def Leppard/Nazareth ripoff back in 1988), it goes on, and on, and on, and on.

Then you would know that pop and rock music has been copying each other for 50 years. Do you think people stealing the music gives them any power to shape an industry?

Slow down there, partner, I'm not advocating theft of intellectual property. The piracy issue is a whole separate issue, and one that the industry could have dealt with swiftly back when it first started cropping up - not by suing everyone, but by embracing the digital delivery system and implementing legal pay-for-download sites back when MP3.com and Napster were still in their infancy.

The culture of illegal downloading developed back then because people were sick of buying CDs because of a single they heard, and finding out that single was the only song worth hearing on the CD. There were no other options for checking out the album beforehand in the mid 90's, unless you were lucky enough to have a local record shop that still accepted returns.

Again, I don't condone it, but I see why it happened.

Again another weak excuse. You won't sell me what I want at the price I want it so I will steal it. Tell that to a judge or someone who lost his job through piracy. If you don't like it don't buy it, then they will change.

Sure, and it's absolutely wrong. However, thieves also steal and hack software regularly, some of the biggest names in the software industry (Adobe CS4 anyone?) and yet the software industry goes on, undaunted, because they continue to make quality products that professionals buy. The music industry could take a lesson from this.

Maybe you could tell the lesson that's to be taken. Besides sell it for a fraction. Not that this would stop them from stealing. It's a cultural thing. They do it because they think they are right, but in truth it's because they won't get caught. Catch more, sue more and bugger the bad publicity. Or just take their Internet connection away. If you can't use a toll properly you should not complain if it's taken away.

You are absolutely correct. Personally, I prefer to do my shopping for music in the underground scene - better variety, better prices on CD's, production might be a bit shaky from time to time, but the songwriting and stylistic approaches in many cases are more honest. There's something inherently satisfying about listening to a raw recording of an honest songwriter, versus a slicked-up production of someone who can't sing without electronic help trying to sing a song they didn't write, over music they didn't produce. (Barbara Mason, anyone?)

If more buy more, the market will develop more.

Just because an industry does not produce what some want and for the price they want it does not give them the right to steal it. It's too easy to say "This is not worth buying, so I will steal it to teach them a lesson." Because the proof is the opposite. As a musical historian you will know that some of the best Rock music was produced in the late 60s and 70s. But these titles are still being stolen. They steal the best and does that "It's not worth it." excuse include some of the greatest rock stars ever?

Yes industries carry on and that was glib. Come and say that to my friends face. He lost his job and home because for the industry to carry on it had to trim down. He would love to hear your excuses.

[Paul Markham]

And if it's right for people to steal, or in your words can see how it happened, it's also right for the pirates to be tracked down and sued. When hundreds of them are getting letters in the post asking them to appear in court or pay a fine, which is funnelled back to sue more, then piracy will decrease.

When companies are sued for advertising on sites that promote theft they will stop advertising and the problem will diminish. Because the piracy industry is not just a bunch kids trying to get a free record, program or what ever. It's an industry making money. From Paypal, to Brazzers, to AFF. Try and steal off them and see how they would like it.

It will diminish because with out the companies behind them to pay for the sites the sites will diminish.