2MuchMark... Naughty Naughty

[Mediaguy]

Originally Posted by sarettah

Strictly speaking imho (but I think most of the newbie boards cozy, voltars, netponds newbie section would agree with me) a newbie should not be running a paysite. They are pretty much doomed from the word go.

In my experience you are pretty much right.

Originally Posted by sarettah

They do not understand traffic. They should not be buying traffic or having it bought for them (as many turnkey programs do) because this offers no real understanding of how to build traffic.

Our newbs who take traffic advice and can wait the first few months out, understand and come up smelling roses, or petunias (that's a flower I see you as most, sarettah - please, correct me if I'm wrong )

Originally Posted by sarettah

The best traffic is organic and unless they are work towards building a good base of self generated traffic, eventually they will fail.

Yes! People who want to start with a new site pasting/posting t&a banners everywhere instead of basic text links as I suggest for new sites/traffic campaigns will be sorely disappointed.

Originally Posted by sarettah

Noone, but especially newbs, should host on a turnkey, all in one solution. There should be several degrees of separation between your host, your registrar, your designer, etc etc etc. Having it all in one place seems convenient until something happens.

i can unerstand the hesitancy, but really we're just big-ass sweethearts and the only thing that "happens" is lack of communication or non-payment...

Originally Posted by sarettah

Unscrupulous owners can hijack traffic, hold sites hostage, hold domains hostage, etc etc. When you do this you are putting control of your living into one basket. It is always better to have control of your own project.

Right and absolutely. But no matter how many aspects you "control" if you don't pay your hosting bill, you're sunk...

Originally Posted by sarettah

I have had to rescue way too many people from this type of situation.

To sell such a system to newbs is imho just wrong, period.

I agree, and we've turned down people... but mostly we've warned them ahead of time. Like I said, they have to have the time, for example, to exploit the new enterprise.. and they'll tell you they DO have the time... but, they lie sigh sigh ultimately though they're fooling themselves.

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by Mediaguy

In my experience you are pretty much right.

Then why market it to them.

Newbies: this is your chance to jump into the game with a web-ready online solution; learn the ropes and fatten your bank account with your own site; We'll help!

It is one thing when a newb stumbles on to you and insists on buying it. But it is another when your sales pitch targets newbies (not to imply that you only market to newbies).

[2MuchMark]

Hi Sarettah,

I have to say that I agree with you. I have removed the NEWBIE mention from the front page of our site, and slightly re-phrased the last 2 paragraphs.

And besides, "newbies" do not know that they are "newbies", so having the word "newbie" there really doesn't serve any purpose.

We still won't flat-out refuse "newbies" however. Don't forget that you, me, and everyone else in the 'biz was a newbie at one time. There is nothing wrong with "newbies" and we want their business. Don't forget; some newbies can bring new ideas to any business, so to flat-out refuse them could be a mistake. And besides, its only the Know-it-all and holier-than-thou newbies that we, like everyone else, have a problem with.

Cheers!

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by 2MuchMark

And besides, "newbies" do not know that they are "newbies", so having the word "newbie" there really doesn't serve any purpose.

So you changed it to "anyone" which instead of raising the bar actually lowers it.

Anyone!: This is your chance to jump into the game with a web-ready online solution; learn the ropes of the video chat world without breaking your bank account by renting our system and paying easy monthly payments. Stop anytime, or buy it out! Need site designers, advice or traffic? Our partners & recources program consists of industry pros ready to work with you!

For some reason I am reminded of my highschool days.

During my junior and senior years I worked as a lifeguard for a local health spa/gym.

The day I quit was when I watched the head salesman try to sell a membership to a retarded quadrapalegic who happened to be passing by the front of the place (we were in a strip mall).

[Mediaguy]

Originally Posted by sarettah

The day I quit was when I watched the head salesman try to sell a membership to a retarded quadrapalegic who happened to be passing by the front of the place (we were in a strip mall).

We draw the line at retarded quadrepalegics, please...

And like I said this is something we're trying... though I saw it's been changed... it's the weekend, so I can't just stomp over to Mark's desk and be incendiary. i'll see how this thing is on Monday....

And if we have any nebie prosect maybe I'll just send them to this thread...

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by Mediaguy

We draw the line at retarded quadrepalegics, please...

And like I said this is something we're trying... though I saw it's been changed... it's the weekend, so I can't just stomp over to Mark's desk and be incendiary. i'll see how this thing is on Monday....

And if we have any nebie prosect maybe I'll just send them to this thread...

lolol. The quadrapalegic may have been somewhat harsh. ;p

[sarettah]

Just so you know why I started this thread.

I am asked somewhat often, as a programmer, how much would it be to do a custom cam solution. Depending on what was being asked for, my quotes have been anywhere from $10k to several years and several hundred thousand.

I usually suggest that they go seek out a product that they can license. In the past I have often told them to talk to DrGuile or Colin to see what they can offer or point them towards sponsors that I know of that offer simpler private label solutions that might work.

Because of the threads about 2much and the Shellee/2much thing and the Couchsitter/2much thing I became aware of 2much.

So, I was checking their site to see what their product actually was which means I am mainly looking at marketing text and what specs the site offers up upfront.

I saw the newbie pitch on the front page and decided to ask about it (call you out on it is a bit strong when all I said was naughty naughty...lol). I contacted Shellee and asked her to please ignore the thread so that it would not do what most threads about 2much do (and this is caused by both sides Mark/Mediaguy and Shellee) and deteriorate into a rehash of that stuff.

Thank you Shellee for staying out. Thank you Mark and Mediaguy for resisting the temptation to take it in that direction (it only took one mention from me, I appreciate that).

So, I got my answers. Thank you.

I am still considering whether I will point any future inquiries your way.

[2MuchMark]

While I thank you for the input, pasting a warning on our front page similar to the "This is not a magic wand" post discussed earlier would not be the best sales technique in my opinon. The FAQ page located at http://www.2much.net/faq.php already covers this.

Besides, Most people who are already in adult, are already doing their own thing and not necessily interested in expanding into online chat. So to attempt to target Only "Experienced Adult Webmasters" might severely limit our ability to sell, and may even tend to block out "new" blood and ideas.

And don't forget, we are not limiting the use of our application to the adult arena.

Changes to the new http://www.2Much.net site will no doubt continue to be tweaked based on opinions offered by others, and our own product and service updates.

[Mediaguy]

Originally Posted by sarettah

Then why market it to them.

I agree. Targetting them is weird. You don't go to a search engine thinking of yourself as a newbie (or even knowing the word) if that's what you are.

On the other hand newcomers can often help us remove the cobwebs from our blinders and actually make us learn stuff... I'm hoping to get a newb on here soon who is very very business oriented and not your industry veteran type at all. But he has contacts with girls who are serious enough to start a solo site, for example, and regionally is close to a couple big programs whom he has contacted, that ultimately will help him traffic and business wise.

I'm answering questions, nudging the right direction/s, and hopefully this will all produce new relationships and business associations.

What I like is that this newb who has experience in other domains is actually listening and learning and not imposing old school, brick & mortar concepts of which he is knowledgeable, onto the new online arena into which he's dipping his little toe.

I'll keep y'all up to date on this one

Originally Posted by sarettah

It is one thing when a newb stumbles on to you and insists on buying it. But it is another when your sales pitch targets newbies (not to imply that you only market to newbies).

Yeah it's hard to refuse the money even when all your instincts are sounding the red bell to not sell not sell not sell!!

And once they've gotten around all your qualifying hurdles, still don't seem like they'll know how to use the thing, they fall back on the "What's your problem? I have the money, you have the product! Sell it to me!" This is hard to resist (and there have been times when potential clients have basically just been told that we couldn't fit them in our schedule or something).

But this is the first time we've had a pitch to newbies... don't know if it will serve as an experiment or we should just ditch it.

Personally my part is to market to industry and experienced net people; my experience with mom & pop knitting site types has not been the best...

[2MuchMark]

Originally Posted by Mediaguy

my experience with mom & pop knitting site types has not been the best...

Why, whatever do you mean?

[Mediaguy]

Originally Posted by 2MuchMark

Why, whatever do you mean?

remember that knitting group that had a geocites site and wanted to branch out into adult? and they were mailing cheques to us every other week? and we weren't cashing them? and they sent us a threatening macrame? so we said ok and created a site for sexy knitters? and the sexy kittens niche didn't respond, for some reason? and the animal protection group got involved? and they decided to have the firemen in their locality involved since there were no fires in their city and they had lots of time on their hands heheh? and the firemen didn't know how to knit but ordered a crate of tanning oil? and they all got sick when they tried to masturbate with it?

it was a sad time because a parishioner's shed caught fire and burned to the ground.

the fire department had to go to special counseling sessions to stop the numbness in their hands.

remember?

.