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Old 11-10-2003   #1
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I apologize for the images.. but it's important to know the reality of what we're talking about. After going to this site and reading up on the actual process of partial birth abortion and how it's used I've decided it's wrong. Only in extreme situations could it ever be allowed. It's so sad. As a father I wish I could've taken all these babies into my home. What a tragedy.

Is there anyone here who thinks partial birth abortion should be utilized as a form of birth control?




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Old 11-10-2003   #2
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Old 11-10-2003   #3
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Old 11-10-2003   #4
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I don't think it should. I am not totally against abortion, however, this is just wrong in every sense of the word. That makes me just want to cry. I can't have children anymore, and I would have given anything to have them.
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Old 11-10-2003   #5
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no arguments from me...
Its called Russian birth control....ask Serge
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Old 11-10-2003   #6
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My mother is an OB-GYN nurse midwife who works at two hospitals and teaches classes at two colleges in town.

I've spoken to her at length about this. Her experience (and she's been either an OB-GYN nurse or a nurse midwife for almost 35 years) has been that mothers who have late term abortions are NOT doing it for birth control. Everyone she's ever dealt with has wanted the baby desperately, spent a lot of time agonizing over the decision and were devastated that it had to end that way. In every case the child would not have lived outside the womb and many could have caused the mother to die or require major surgery if she had continued to keep the baby until full term.

The new law is obviously very arbitrary regarding what they consider "the health of the mother" exception as proven by judges who KNOW the law filing against it. My Mom made the point that the women who are having late term abortions performed for birth control will do exactly what the women who want early term abortions performed will do if they were outlawed - they WOULD find a doctor to perform them.

It's not a pretty thing for anyone to have to deal with, but again, I'm going by what she's telling me and she has no reason to lie. They are necessities in every situation she's witnessed and I find it hard to believe the rest of the country is that much different.



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Old 11-10-2003   #7
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I don't think it should. I am not totally against abortion, however, this is just wrong in every sense of the word. That makes me just want to cry. I can't have children anymore, and I would have given anything to have them.

Diagrams of the exact process are here: http://www.priestsforlife.org/partialbirth.html#showit

I agree. It's amazing how they do this. They pull the baby out by it's legs. Leave the head in the vagina while they cut open the back of the neck with scissors. Then they use the suction tube to suck the babies brain out. All this while the baby is flailing it's arms and legs.

Diagrams of the exact process are here: http://www.priestsforlife.org/partialbirth.html#showit
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Old 11-10-2003   #8
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Old 11-10-2003   #9
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My mother is an OB-GYN nurse midwife who works at two hospitals and teaches classes at two colleges in town.

I've spoken to her at length about this. Her experience (and she's been either an OB-GYN nurse or a nurse midwife for almost 35 years) has been that mothers who have late term abortions are NOT doing it for birth control. Everyone she's ever dealt with has wanted the baby desperately, spent a lot of time agonizing over the decision and were devastated that it had to end that way. In every case the child would not have lived outside the womb and many could have caused the mother to die or require major surgery if she had continued to keep the baby until full term.

The new law is obviously very arbitrary regarding what they consider "the health of the mother" exception as proven by judges who KNOW the law filing against it. My Mom made the point that the women who are having late term abortions performed for birth control will do exactly what the women who want early term abortions performed will do if they were outlawed - they WOULD find a doctor to perform them.

It's not a pretty thing for anyone to have to deal with, but again, I'm going by what she's telling me and she has no reason to lie. They are necessities in every situation she's witnessed and I find it hard to believe the rest of the country is that much different.

I couldn't imagine being a woman that had to go through that. Feeling the baby moving as it's neck is being cut open and brain being sucked out. Isn't the fact that the baby is alive and moving enough to try and help it survive? My son was 6 weeks premature. I remember being able to hold him in just one hand.. he was so small. The partial birth abortion babies are much bigger. I don't understand this.



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Old 11-10-2003   #10
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I agree. It's amazing how they do this. They pull the baby out by it's legs. Leave the head in the vagina while they cut open the back of the neck with scissors. Then they use the suction tube to suck the babies brain out. All this while the baby is flailing it's arms and legs.
Squirt.... (I knew you would have pics, so I jumped past them without looking)...

The description you wrote is graphic enough to convince most people.....

and in most cases, when it comes to partial birth abortions, I believe you are preaching to the choir.....
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Old 11-10-2003   #11
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Old 11-10-2003   #12
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Old 11-10-2003   #13
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Old 11-10-2003   #14
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Old 11-10-2003   #15
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Old 11-10-2003   #16
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Old 11-10-2003   #17
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Old 11-10-2003   #18
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Well I think the pictures document the reality of it and leave nothing to the imagination.. which is important when discussing human life/death. People can have moral/ethical discussions.. but when you see the result of peoples actions.. it puts things in perspective.
Perhaps so....

But in reality, the "in your face" attitude and tactics that are used by the "right gto lifers" is what loses the argument for them many times....

We are intelligent people for the most part, capable of making decisions, capable of reasoning....

When shit is shoved in my face, I will often just turn the other way....

I do not need to see every bad thing in the world to know they are bad....

Besides, a textual description and one's own imagination can usually give a much more disturbing picture than reality ever can.....

just imo of course.....
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Old 11-10-2003   #19
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Old 11-10-2003   #21
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Old 11-10-2003   #22
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I couldn't imagine being a woman that had to go through that. Feeling the baby moving as it's neck is being cut open and brain being sucked out. Isn't the fact that the baby is alive and moving enough to try and help it survive? My son was 6 weeks premature. I remember being able to hold him in just one hand.. he was so small. The partial birth abortion babies are much bigger. I don't understand this.
It's major surgery and most mothers are under general anesthesia when it's done. These are babies that are barely alive and most mothers were made aware of the situation because the babies WEREN'T moving. They WEREN'T developing correctly.

If you think this is bad, then imagine these same mothers going through labor at 9 months, going through the birth process fully conscious and then watching their baby die within minutes or hours. Some also have the possibility of dying or needing surgery which will prevent them from having children in the future.

One of my HS friends had a partial birth abortion many years ago. It was her 2nd child which had a horrible disease where the brain had not formed past a few months which kept it from surviving without being attached to her through the umbilical cord. She had given birth to a baby with the same disease and had lost so much blood she almost died. She had the partial birth abortion to save her life and she knew from 1st hand experience the baby wouldn't live for more than a few hours. She went on to have 3 healthy children - this was a woman who not only wanted children, but is a very strong Catholic so you can imagine the turmoil to make this decision.

It's the last possible choice for most of he parents who decide to have it, per my Mom. And again, I see no reason for her to lie to me about this.
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Old 11-10-2003   #23
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Old 11-10-2003   #24
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Old 11-10-2003   #25
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Old 11-10-2003   #26
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For the record, I think women who use abortion as a form of birth control should be strung up and shot. They should be sterilized and beaten to within an inch of their lives. There's such a thing as birth control, and the morning after pill. The only time I would EVER agree with any form of abortion is if it was medical, or an extreme situation (a 11 year old girl pregnant by her father's rape or something like that).
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Old 11-10-2003   #27
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Old 11-10-2003   #28
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Old 11-10-2003   #29
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Old 11-10-2003   #30
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Old 11-10-2003   #31
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For the record, I think women who use abortion as a form of birth control should be strung up and shot. They should be sterilized and beaten to within an inch of their lives. There's such a thing as birth control, and the morning after pill. The only time I would EVER agree with any form of abortion is if it was medical, or an extreme situation (a 11 year old girl pregnant by her father's rape or something like that).

I remember going to the clinic with a friend.. waiting at the front.. and seeing this white trash hoe come in... says to the lady behind the desk.. " Hi .. I'm bla bla bla... I need to get an abortion. I've done this 9 times before.. I'm sure you have my information on file" WTF? So sad... but probably better her child die then be born addicted to drugs, abused, tortured and end up what kind of an adult?
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Old 11-10-2003   #32
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Old 11-10-2003   #33
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Old 11-10-2003   #34
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I couldn't imagine having to go through what she did. But the first pictures I showed were healthy babies. Nothing appeared wrong with them.
And you received your medical degree from where? And you examined these babies when? And you're 100% positive the pictures are exactly what the site claims they are?

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There is always the exception.. and the end result is bad.. no matter how you look at it. I still maintain that it's a womans right to decide to do with her body, and what is growing in her body, what she wishes. This partial birth abortion thing really stretches the limit though.
But it's OK if the baby dies a horrible death when it's fuller to term (which, in my Mom's experience, they will ALL do) and the mother has a possibility of dying with it.

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I mean.. if a woman is going to allow a doctor to pull this baby out.. all the way so only the head is in.. then technically it's in our world and subect to the rights of a normal human being. What do you think about this?
You mean the right to die upon birth and possibly kill or render the mother sterile in the process?

Sorry, but having a friend go through this process and having a Mother with decades of experience, I tend to believe what they tell me before believing a male with website links.
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Old 11-10-2003   #35
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Old 11-10-2003   #36
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Old 11-10-2003   #37
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Old 11-10-2003   #38
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Right. That being said these women decided to give birth to these things.. was that right? Or would have abortion been a better option?
It should be the mother's choice.
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Old 11-10-2003   #40
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I remember going to the clinic with a friend.. waiting at the front.. and seeing this white trash hoe come in... says to the lady behind the desk.. " Hi .. I'm bla bla bla... I need to get an abortion. I've done this 9 times before.. I'm sure you have my information on file" WTF? So sad... but probably better her child die then be born addicted to drugs, abused, tortured and end up what kind of an adult?
She should be sterilized.

I'm all for abortion, but when people start using it as chronic birth control it's time to start sterilizing.
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Old 11-10-2003   #41
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I honestly wish it wasn't a woman's right to kill a baby just because she was a dumb slut who didn't take a pill or didn't insist on a condom. I wish it was a perfect world and those women had to give their children to loving adoptive families who couldn't have their own children and will ensure the baby has a good home. It's not a perfect world though. How I wish it was, especially for my kid's sake.
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Old 11-10-2003   #43
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Old 11-10-2003   #44
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Old 11-10-2003   #46
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Originally posted by LadyMischief@Nov 10 2003, 05:56 AM
I honestly wish it wasn't a woman's right to kill a baby just because she was a dumb slut who didn't take a pill or didn't insist on a condom. I wish it was a perfect world and those women had to give their children to loving adoptive families who couldn't have their own children and will ensure the baby has a good home. It's not a perfect world though. How I wish it was, especially for my kid's sake.
I hear you on that one. All I can do is raise my son with a respect for life and help him learn how to make good choices. Top of the list is birth control.. then choosing a partner with strong character.. etc etc.. good choices can help lessen the chances of ending up with a woman that will kill your child.
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Old 11-10-2003   #47
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Originally posted by LadyMischief@Nov 10 2003, 08:38 AM
For the record, I think women who use abortion as a form of birth control should be strung up and shot. They should be sterilized and beaten to within an inch of their lives. There's such a thing as birth control, and the morning after pill. The only time I would EVER agree with any form of abortion is if it was medical, or an extreme situation (a 11 year old girl pregnant by her father's rape or something like that).
I second that with every fiber of my being.
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Old 11-10-2003   #48
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Originally posted by LadyMischief+Nov 10 2003, 06:00 AM-->
QUOTE (LadyMischief @ Nov 10 2003, 06:00 AM)
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Originally posted by -Squirt@Nov 10 2003, 05:57 AM
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Originally posted by -LadyMischief@Nov 10 2003, 05:50 AM
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Originally posted by -Squirt@Nov 10 2003, 05:46 AM
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Old 11-10-2003   #49
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Yeah doing drugs while pregnant is selfish, as is drinking alcohol etc.. Those poor kids never had a chance to begin with. It's too bad there isn't some kind of test that people have to take before getting pregnant, and some master switch somewhere that turns her ability to concieve on and off.
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Old 11-10-2003   #50
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Originally posted by Squirt@Nov 10 2003, 08:29 AM
Btw... tell me this is one of the straight ones. Yummy. I could lick that for hours :P
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