SheleeHale...a serious question for you

[sarettah]

Not fooling around here (Like in any other threads I have posted to you in, sorry about that. But I have to have my fun somehow)

You are trying to brand yourself as a consumer conscious pornographer and have apparently done a bunch of research into the industry. So, I would like your opinion on certain practices that are sometimes used on the web and as to whether they are ethical or not? Please.

Popups?

Blind Links and/or redirected links?

Circle Jerks? (The web kind, not the gay boyscout kind)

Hidden terms and conditions?

Spam?

That's a good enough start for now.

Thanx in advance.

P.S. btw, this is a good chance for you to show what you know

[Sexyteaser]

I would enjoy this opportunity, thank you very much for asking. This is the short version and may not be my best as I have been up since 5am and am starting to burn out - I just did not want to ignore you even if this was just to get more to pick on me for.

Popups - I hate them but with XP and popup blocker software the consumer is able to manage these annoying things. If you don't want them there are resources available and you should use them if you have issue with this. (ethical)

Blind Links and/or redirected links - No problem unless you are doing it to steal from someone else. In this case I would hope that security will improve to decrease this abuse. (sometimes ethical/sometimes not)

Circle Jerks? (The web kind, not the gay boyscout kind) - I hate them they drive me nuts, but I can't give you a really strong answer on this as it really has not been something I have looked into. (not ethical)

Hidden terms and conditions - we all have to agree to the TOS if we want the service; how often do we read it - I rarely do. If I agree to a TOS that has something I would not expect in it that is my fault. But from a consumer stand point certain aspects I have issue with like an inability to opt out or cancel etc. I hear adult sales people all the time say keep the cost under this or that so it gets by without notice on the consumers credit card statement. I personally don't think thats a good business practice but all the power to those that do. (not ethical)

Spam - All for it, but won't do it because it's illegal. I get shit all day long and we have spam filters and programs that the consumer can use if they don't want it. I don't think CAN SPAM is fair and with the ease of stolen emails and IP's etc this law could affect a non-abuser. (sometimes ethical but not legal)

[Mediaguy]

Originally Posted by Shelleehale

I would enjoy this opportunity, thank you very much for asking. This is the short version and may not be my best as I have been up since 5am and am starting to burn out - I just did not want to ignore you even if this was just to get more to pick on me for.

I hate it when newbs are picked on - there's boards where that's the norm - but sometimes Shellee you invite it.

Originally Posted by Shelleehale

Popups - I hate them but with XP and popup blocker software the consumer is able to manage these annoying things. If you don't want them there are resources available and you should use them if you have issue with this. (ethical)

Ultimately it's almost impossible to fight popups - because now there's new versions called webpage dialogues and the like. Some people still try to use them because, in volume, they still (believe it or not) generate sales.

Originally Posted by Shelleehale

Blind Links and/or redirected links - No problem unless you are doing it to steal from someone else. In this case I would hope that security will improve to decrease this abuse. (sometimes ethical/sometimes not)

Blind links and redirects will take your clicker or surfer to something that is not what he clicked on... as a surfer or porn user or whatever you want to call me, I've clicked on a babe I wanted to see more of and ended up on something or someone who is the diametrical OPPOSITE of who I clicked... a complete turn off.

Originally Posted by Shelleehale

Circle Jerks? (The web kind, not the gay boyscout kind)

Ok I laughed my ass off. Good one.

Originally Posted by Shelleehale

- I hate them they drive me nuts, but I can't give you a really strong answer on this as it really has not been something I have looked into. (not ethical)

Actually circle jerks are a lot less frequent than they used to be unless you unfortunately combine yours bookmarks or end up cross-clicking to the wrong bunch of sites; these are really dodo-bird territory nowadays.

Originally Posted by Shelleehale

Hidden terms and conditions - we all have to agree to the TOS if we want the service; how often do we read it - I rarely do.

You're right. And I myself rarely if ever read TOS when I apply anywhere.

Originally Posted by Shelleehale

If I agree to a TOS that has something I would not expect in it that is my fault. But from a consumer stand point certain aspects I have issue with like an inability to opt out or cancel etc.

Consumers or webmasters rarely read the TOS - it's a checkbox that gets us to the next step. It may not be wise, but that's just the way it is... And I personally will continue to "trust" TOS conditions and just click the box... sigh, that's probably wrong as hell, but I dare anyone tell me they read the friggin' thing every time...

Originally Posted by Shelleehale

I hear adult sales people all the time say keep the cost under this or that so it gets by without notice on the consumers credit card statement.

Really? Those are assholes. Though we like rebills and recurring, it's much preferred that it's in the consumer's face so he can agree or not; I love rebills, but I hate chargebacks.

Originally Posted by Shelleehale

Spam - All for it, but won't do it because it's illegal.

WHAT?!? No, you must be kidding.... rephrase that answer for us who don't quite catch your meaning here....

Originally Posted by Shelleehale

I don't think CAN SPAM is fair and with the ease of stolen emails and IP's etc this law could affect a non-abuser. (sometimes ethical but not legal)

How is forbidding spam unfair?!?

Who cares if this law affects a non-abuser? What is that, anyhow? sorry this really makes no friggin sense to me - if it's ethical it should be legal.

Email I didn't ask for is WRONG. Period.

.

[softball]

media dude......take a deep breath...

[Mediaguy]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

media dude......take a deep breath...

My writing was not as breathless as your reading was, no doubt...

You I have been reading and I sense a communality that could breach the confines of this forum.

I could write more pornish matter here but I prefer to keep our relationship pure.

But thanks for the advice, seriously...

[softball]

Originally Posted by Mediaguy

My writing was not as breathless as your reading was, no doubt...

You I have been reading and I sense a communality that could breach the confines of this forum.

I could write more pornish matter here but I prefer to keep our relationship pure.

But thanks for the advice, seriously...

Pornish? I studied that for six months. But if you don't use it you lose it. I think my French and Russian lasted longer. But for everything else, there is Babelfish.

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by Mediaguy

I hate it when newbs are picked on - there's boards where that's the norm - but sometimes Shellee you invite it.

I do not normally beat on noobies too much, in fact quite the opposite in most cases.

However, if a noob comes off real arrogant I have no problem calling them on it.

I had kind of forgotten that SH was still pretty much noobie until DK pointed it out today.

She is quite ambitous from what I can see and that is all well and good. I see from the corp page that she has 16 sites up and running (even if some are just front pages to push directly to a sponsor) and that is quite commendable.

[Sexyteaser]

Originally Posted by sarettah

I do not normally beat on noobies too much, in fact quite the opposite in most cases.

However, if a noob comes off real arrogant I have no problem calling them on it.

I had kind of forgotten that SH was still pretty much noobie until DK pointed it out today.

She is quite ambitous from what I can see and that is all well and good. I see from the corp page that she has 16 sites up and running (even if some are just front pages to push directly to a sponsor) and that is quite commendable.

Thank you and yes I really just got started in this 1 year ago after a selling my consulting practice to Computer People in 1992 I have spent most my time doing a few little project here and there but mostly doing philanthropy which was a hell of a lot harder than this. I am sure if you have been around that long find some old Coputer World's or Info Worlds and you will find articles on my work or bi-lined by me back in the day; hell there is even the front page of the Wall Street Journal from 1987 when I was working with Capital Associates.

Ok so when I started in IT in 1984 as a PC Coordinator there was DOS and I am old and things really progressed while I was off between 1994-2007 I did do some great fun things like programming our whole house to run off a computer panel where the lights and stereo and tv worked from a laptop in 1997 and other fun things with t-view and slide shows etc that is now so easy to do. But, no I never sold sex or even thought about it until a huge twist happened in a plan I had while looking for a chat platform to run a coaching site. I never found adult it found me.

I spent the last year listening to people I felt were important and smart in this business and aligned myself with them and the rest maybe I am arrogant for dismissing in comments but I worked my ass off most of my life and I am not here looking for some get rich quick scheme - I am here to start a solid business based on my ideas.

As far as the front pages go after a debacle with my first chat platform this was a great inexpensive way to see if I was any good at this before investing a ton of money into exclusive content and development - probably a smart move with the economic turn don't you think?

Give me a few more months as I pull this all together I may be a little slow with the board etiquette but this is nothing compared to the battles we had in board rooms where I learned to debate my points with conviction and stand up for myself.

[softball]

breath taking, really. Personally, I wanna see the results. I am patient.
However, if I were a betting man, I would say this shit is piled so damn high, I can't see the top of the pile.
I think it was some obscure American that once said "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time."
But hey, hedge your bets.

[Sexyteaser]

Originally Posted by sarettah

Not fooling around here (Like in any other threads I have posted to you in, sorry about that. But I have to have my fun somehow)

You are trying to brand yourself as a consumer conscious pornographer and have apparently done a bunch of research into the industry. So, I would like your opinion on certain practices that are sometimes used on the web and as to whether they are ethical or not? Please.

I did make a lame attempt to personally give you my ethical/unethical opinion on your question after a 18 hour day but once again Mark/Greg have to hijack the thread. I guess if you would like to shape my opinion on these points or help me better understand we should do it offline.

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by Shelleehale

I did make a lame attempt to personally give you my ethical/unethical opinion on your question after a 18 hour day but once again Mark/Greg have to hijack the thread. I guess if you would like to shape my opinion on these points or help me better understand we should do it offline.

I don't want to shape anything. I am nobody..lolol

It doesn't matter if they hijack a thread. Ignore them, grow a thicker skin and your survivability factor will go much higher.

You have already been ripped off twice at least. Stop letting it happen. Become more cynical, quickly.


"Adult webmaster boards ain't the Harvard Debate Club!"
- Mutt

"The height of MORONIC behavior seems to be when you think you are so much smarter than everyone else that you become self defeating."
- Win

"only bona fide MORONS have any ill feelings toward ANY board personality, 'cuz after all...it's just board personalities!"
- Serge





and perhaps my favorite ;p


"now lets have one of those happy board moments where we embrace and say 'your so great' :-))))"
- CJ

[2MuchMark]

Originally Posted by Shelleehale

...because being under NDA with so many people I can't even talk about what I have really done of value or who I have worked with.

Shellee, If someone wanted to hire you as an expert consultant, but asked for a list of references, how would you resond?

Originally Posted by Shelleehale

..but once again Mark/Greg have to hijack the thread.

This is a public forum that invites everyone to post their ideas and opinions and we like to share ours. No forum hijack intended,sorry.

[gonzo]

[quote=2MuchMark;811799This is a public forum that invites everyone to post their ideas and opinions and we like to share ours. No forum hijack intended,sorry.[/quote]

ERROR:
The performer you want to chat with has logged off! Please Click HERE to return to main page

[Mediaguy]

Originally Posted by Shelleehale

I did make a lame attempt to personally give you my ethical/unethical opinion on your question after a 18 hour day but once again Mark/Greg have to hijack the thread. I guess if you would like to shape my opinion on these points or help me better understand we should do it offline.

Hijacking a thread means turning the thing off topic with posts focussed by one's personal agenda, and in this case my post/s was/were on topic and actually pretty fair to you.

I always appreciated your energy and gumption and don't feel I've shot out any insults or statements that are in any way smearing you or your reputation.

I've seen posts that erroneously assume you're experienced and knowdledgeable, which you acknowledge you're not. Because of this perception some people might take erroneous statements or imputations you make with more weight than they deserve.

I made statements that I hoped would give you a certain insight on how you're perceived on this board because of statements you have made out of context or without prior understanding.

I tried to smooth over these impulsive outbursts on your part by posting that explanation of how things aren't quite what you think six months, 12 months, 2 years and so on into the business. But you have to have an open mind to learn, and not come to the whole thing with preconceived notions.

If my opinion doesn't have weight with you because of our past unfortunate association, that's too bad. I'm not the best known or highest respected individual around here, but neither has anyone ever had cause to start a thread about me to call in question any opinion, knowledge or statements I've made.

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by sarettah

Not fooling around here (Like in any other threads I have posted to you in, sorry about that. But I have to have my fun somehow)

You are trying to brand yourself as a consumer conscious pornographer and have apparently done a bunch of research into the industry. So, I would like your opinion on certain practices that are sometimes used on the web and as to whether they are ethical or not? Please.

Popups?

Blind Links and/or redirected links?

Circle Jerks? (The web kind, not the gay boyscout kind)

Hidden terms and conditions?

Spam?

That's a good enough start for now.

Thanx in advance.

P.S. btw, this is a good chance for you to show what you know

Such a nice little topic to beat around but instead it immediately degrades into participants questioning each other's expertise and authority.

I like the topic, so I'll comment even though as hammer will point out I never say anything that everyone doesn't already know.

The question itself is almost a contradiction, ethics and porn. The average person on the street in the U.S. would say selling porn is unethical. And bottom line it is a skeezy industry filled with skeezy characters. There are some business people here, those are the ones who are still thriving. But there are also a fair amount of people who for one reason or another would never fit in a 9-5 corporate world. There's also a lot of greed and people who are here because it's still easier money than mainstream web.

Bottom line, ethics do not weigh into many porn business plans. To be competitive you've got to push the edge of the envelop as much as you can get away with. The decision as to whether to do something like spam isn't usually based upon right or wrong but rather whether or not the juice is worth the squeeze. Will you go to jail? Will you get fined? Will the returns outweight the fine? Will my host shut me down? Can I find a chinese server to relay off of? These are the questions, not whether it is ethical.

Now in a perfect world where selling porn was no different than selling baseball caps online, you would be worried more about things like branding, company image, customer satisfaction and loyalty, repeat business, providing value, etc. I can guarantee you those type discussions are rarely had around porn boardtoom tables.

In that world you'd do none of the above, you want your surfers, err customers, to trust you.

There are some pay sites and genres that do this once you reach the sanctity of the pay site. That is a marketing model in and of itself. "Come in out of the wild, it's safe here". Give me $nn per month, i'll let you spank your monkey without without worrying about whether I've changed your home page, installed a tool bar and now I'm going to pop 20 windows everytime you click anything.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

Now in a perfect world where selling porn was no different than selling baseball caps online, you would be worried more about things like branding, company image, customer satisfaction and loyalty, repeat business, providing value, etc. I can guarantee you those type discussions are rarely had around porn boardtoom tables.

Conference room A

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Conference room A

Even fewer have discussions about capacity planning, operations, system stability and change management.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

Even fewer have discussions about capacity planning, operations, system stability and change management.

Those are topics for the safety meeting.

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

Such a nice little topic to beat around but instead it immediately degrades into participants questioning each other's expertise and authority.

I like the topic, so I'll comment even though as hammer will point out I never say anything that everyone doesn't already know.

The question itself is almost a contradiction, ethics and porn. The average person on the street in the U.S. would say selling porn is unethical. And bottom line it is a skeezy industry filled with skeezy characters. There are some business people here, those are the ones who are still thriving. But there are also a fair amount of people who for one reason or another would never fit in a 9-5 corporate world. There's also a lot of greed and people who are here because it's still easier money than mainstream web.

Bottom line, ethics do not weigh into many porn business plans. To be competitive you've got to push the edge of the envelop as much as you can get away with. The decision as to whether to do something like spam isn't usually based upon right or wrong but rather whether or not the juice is worth the squeeze. Will you go to jail? Will you get fined? Will the returns outweight the fine? Will my host shut me down? Can I find a chinese server to relay off of? These are the questions, not whether it is ethical.

Now in a perfect world where selling porn was no different than selling baseball caps online, you would be worried more about things like branding, company image, customer satisfaction and loyalty, repeat business, providing value, etc. I can guarantee you those type discussions are rarely had around porn boardtoom tables.

In that world you'd do none of the above, you want your surfers, err customers, to trust you.

There are some pay sites and genres that do this once you reach the sanctity of the pay site. That is a marketing model in and of itself. "Come in out of the wild, it's safe here". Give me $nn per month, i'll let you spank your monkey without without worrying about whether I've changed your home page, installed a tool bar and now I'm going to pop 20 windows everytime you click anything.

Don't you have that sitting to cut and paste by now

You have stated that before and I agree completely