SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

Not fooling around here (Like in any other threads I have posted to you in, sorry about that. But I have to have my fun somehow)

You are trying to brand yourself as a consumer conscious pornographer and have apparently done a bunch of research into the industry. So, I would like your opinion on certain practices that are sometimes used on the web and as to whether they are ethical or not? Please.

Popups?

Blind Links and/or redirected links?

Circle Jerks? (The web kind, not the gay boyscout kind)

Hidden terms and conditions?

Spam?

That's a good enough start for now.

Thanx in advance.

P.S. btw, this is a good chance for you to show what you know :okthumb:

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

I would enjoy this opportunity, thank you very much for asking. This is the short version and may not be my best as I have been up since 5am and am starting to burn out - I just did not want to ignore you even if this was just to get more to pick on me for.

Popups - I hate them but with XP and popup blocker software the consumer is able to manage these annoying things. If you don't want them there are resources available and you should use them if you have issue with this. (ethical)

Blind Links and/or redirected links - No problem unless you are doing it to steal from someone else. In this case I would hope that security will improve to decrease this abuse. (sometimes ethical/sometimes not)

Circle Jerks? (The web kind, not the gay boyscout kind) - I hate them they drive me nuts, but I can't give you a really strong answer on this as it really has not been something I have looked into. (not ethical)

Hidden terms and conditions - we all have to agree to the TOS if we want the service; how often do we read it - I rarely do. If I agree to a TOS that has something I would not expect in it that is my fault. But from a consumer stand point certain aspects I have issue with like an inability to opt out or cancel etc. I hear adult sales people all the time say keep the cost under this or that so it gets by without notice on the consumers credit card statement. I personally don't think thats a good business practice but all the power to those that do. (not ethical)

Spam - All for it, but won't do it because it's illegal. I get shit all day long and we have spam filters and programs that the consumer can use if they don't want it. I don't think CAN SPAM is fair and with the ease of stolen emails and IP's etc this law could affect a non-abuser. (sometimes ethical but not legal)

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

I hate it when newbs are picked on - there's boards where that's the norm - but sometimes Shellee you invite it.

Ultimately it's almost impossible to fight popups - because now there's new versions called webpage dialogues and the like. Some people still try to use them because, in volume, they still (believe it or not) generate sales.

Blind links and redirects will take your clicker or surfer to something that is not what he clicked on... as a surfer or porn user or whatever you want to call me, I've clicked on a babe I wanted to see more of and ended up on something or someone who is the diametrical OPPOSITE of who I clicked... a complete turn off.

Ok I laughed my ass off. Good one. :)

Actually circle jerks are a lot less frequent than they used to be unless you unfortunately combine yours bookmarks or end up cross-clicking to the wrong bunch of sites; these are really dodo-bird territory nowadays.

You're right. And I myself rarely if ever read TOS when I apply anywhere.

Consumers or webmasters rarely read the TOS - it's a checkbox that gets us to the next step. It may not be wise, but that's just the way it is... And I personally will continue to "trust" TOS conditions and just click the box... sigh, that's probably wrong as hell, but I dare anyone tell me they read the friggin' thing every time...

Really? Those are assholes. Though we like rebills and recurring, it's much preferred that it's in the consumer's face so he can agree or not; I love rebills, but I hate chargebacks.

WHAT?!? No, you must be kidding.... rephrase that answer for us who don't quite catch your meaning here....

How is forbidding spam unfair?!?

Who cares if this law affects a non-abuser? What is that, anyhow? sorry this really makes no friggin sense to me - if it's ethical it should be legal.

Email I didn't ask for is WRONG. Period.

.

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

media dude......take a deep breath...

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

My writing was not as breathless as your reading was, no doubt...

You I have been reading and I sense a communality that could breach the confines of this forum.

I could write more pornish matter here but I prefer to keep our relationship pure.

But thanks for the advice, seriously...

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

Pornish? I studied that for six months. But if you don't use it you lose it. I think my French and Russian lasted longer. But for everything else, there is Babelfish.

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

I do not normally beat on noobies too much, in fact quite the opposite in most cases.

However, if a noob comes off real arrogant I have no problem calling them on it.

I had kind of forgotten that SH was still pretty much noobie until DK pointed it out today.

She is quite ambitous from what I can see and that is all well and good. I see from the corp page that she has 16 sites up and running (even if some are just front pages to push directly to a sponsor) and that is quite commendable.

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

Thank you and yes I really just got started in this 1 year ago after a selling my consulting practice to Computer People in 1992 I have spent most my time doing a few little project here and there but mostly doing philanthropy which was a hell of a lot harder than this. I am sure if you have been around that long find some old Coputer World's or Info Worlds and you will find articles on my work or bi-lined by me back in the day; hell there is even the front page of the Wall Street Journal from 1987 when I was working with Capital Associates.

Ok so when I started in IT in 1984 as a PC Coordinator there was DOS and I am old and things really progressed while I was off between 1994-2007 I did do some great fun things like programming our whole house to run off a computer panel where the lights and stereo and tv worked from a laptop in 1997 and other fun things with t-view and slide shows etc that is now so easy to do. But, no I never sold sex or even thought about it until a huge twist happened in a plan I had while looking for a chat platform to run a coaching site. I never found adult it found me.

I spent the last year listening to people I felt were important and smart in this business and aligned myself with them and the rest maybe I am arrogant for dismissing in comments but I worked my ass off most of my life and I am not here looking for some get rich quick scheme - I am here to start a solid business based on my ideas.

As far as the front pages go after a debacle with my first chat platform this was a great inexpensive way to see if I was any good at this before investing a ton of money into exclusive content and development - probably a smart move with the economic turn don't you think?

Give me a few more months as I pull this all together I may be a little slow with the board etiquette but this is nothing compared to the battles we had in board rooms where I learned to debate my points with conviction and stand up for myself.

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

breath taking, really. Personally, I wanna see the results. I am patient.
However, if I were a betting man, I would say this shit is piled so damn high, I can't see the top of the pile.
I think it was some obscure American that once said "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time."
But hey, hedge your bets.

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

Please show me the most successful project that you had 11 months after you started your first adult site? or better yet 18 months or even today.

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

That "obscure" American was President John F. Kennedy. :)

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

LOLOLOLOL.....my first adult project was wildly successful after two months. Four months later I quit my last career. In fact at two and a half months, I watched in total amazement my first 150K just whizz into the old bank account. And then the profits started to roll in after we started taking it seriously. I am not bragging, Shellee, but this is where you crash and burn. Many of us had that experience and you don't have a fucking clue about that. I would never have lasted 11 or 18 months in this business without a huge profit motive. It just ain't that much fun. Sheeeeiiiit.

Oh, and btw, that was when 150 K was serious fucking money.....

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

I believe you actually meant John F. Lincoln...???? lol..... or honest John as they called him. Sorry, but I am Canadian and not as au fait with American history as a native.

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

Yes you're right, it was Lincoln not Kennedy. Right office, wrong occupant.

Kennedy's quote of note was, "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country."

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

Everyone rings a ding on this one dong, it was good ole Abe Lincoln:

http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Abraham_Lincoln/

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

Sounds like it was competitive with Microsoft stock. What was the project? You mean the 20,000 shares I got in 1996 did not do that? Or what do I actually not have a clue about. Today without working I make 4 times that just sleeping and I am not trying to brag but just wondering what you think I don't have a clue about because it sure isn't making money.

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

JFK was a quote factory, but as it applies to Miss S here today, I think this is very appropriate....
"Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

Silly girl. You asked the question. Your apoplexy is becoming apparent as your veneer wears thin.

"and the colored girls go do be do be do be doobedoo"

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

and like I said, it was a common story back then.

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

Yes, we got that sorted already.

What is odd, is that I have a fairly vivid memory of Kennedy saying that line, with his distinctive Baaaaaston accent. Now I'm wondering if he actually did quote Lincoln in some speech I saw in history class, or if my mind is turning to Silly Putty.

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

My money is on Silly Putty....lol.

edit:
But we need an expert opinion on this. Let's ask Shellee the Professor Irwin Corey of porn.....

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

What veneer?

I had some success, I took off time to raise a family, I talked about some ideas I had for three years and then a year ago attempted to test the waters and see if I could actually do what it took to implement them after so much time off.

I have not even began to build the dream I have only starting to put together the pieces of the foundation and I am sorry but I did not catch the name of the adult company that you run?

I am sure you are a super busy CEO, probably too busy to mess with productive advisement for someone new. Right now all I know is that your really good and starting Shellee Hale threads and bashing me for my thoughts and opinions.

At this point that is all I have seen you be good at.

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

The whole point, that you have missed here, is that one did not have to be a big company or a CEO to make that kind of money in this biz 10 years ago.

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

And you think I care. nuff said bout that. And no you did not catch the name of the adult company I run because it was never pitched. You just protest too loudly. Your attemtps to dazzle us with brilliance are teetering on the brink, so you are trying to baffle us with bullshit. Damn the torpedoes. Press on regardless. But you are not fooling me with this horse patoody.

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

bingo

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

You must care you keep starting Shellee Hale threads for some apparent reason.

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

Ok and how many of them retained their great wealth from that era?

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

Many did, and many did not. No different than any other group that come into large amounts of money relatively quickly.

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

Shellee, normally a newb would not merit such dedicated threads, and so it's as warning to your atittude and manner that you should take a thread (or two or three now?) begun in your honour...

Sarettah is (kindly and gently) baiting you, as you probably are aware, and the pressure you feel to respond shows the compulsion you have to justify yourself that has prompted you to write and post things you shouldn't, at least until you begin understanding the end of the pool you're wading in...

Rhetorical's success came at a time when such types of businesses didn't need the corporate structure Microsoft evolved after years of existence and which it probably didn't even have when you had your thousands of shares (and why the hell would you ever sell those, I wonder?). I get the feeling you just responded the way you did to drop your microsoft mention...

Besides, 150K is hardly competition for Microsoft ventures, even back then.

If you can make 600k in your sleep because you wisely invested in microsoft a few decades ago doesn't qualify you as a person who knows how to make money; in fact, it's just maybe the opposite.

Statements like "I am sorry but I did not catch the name of the adult company that you run?" show you for an arrogant, brick&mortared old-school, pre-web business person who really has no notion of internet business reality.

Rhetorical doesn't need to have an "adult company" to be wise enough to give you advice; an affiliate with a little time spent in the trenches (no offense there, Rhet) will have more authority than you will ever have with an attitude like the one you show here.

I met a corporate rep from Yahoo who came to Internext with four suits and a headful of standard concepts about business in Florida one year. The suit lasted about an hour, his concepts lasted much less than that; he sat and listened like a kindergarten kid, to his credit, for hours, while we told him about the world we do business in.

There's a message here, Shellee: take it easy, you're a kid around here... if you can aknowledge that the guff who *only* pulls in a couple thousand a month has more experience and knowledge to impart than you do with your 600k a night riff, you'll be okay.

But if you start whipping out your 20,000 shares in microsoft and posting blindly into this universe as if it's the same as any other corporate/industrial ghetto that could care less about whether it's founded on carpet samples or styrofoam cups, you will stick out like the sore thumb you're sure to become from constantly hammering away at things you can't possibly grasp until the light is turned on and you actually see what's around you.

That will only come in time, and from circulating along these tunnels that are dug beneath the traditional world business culture from which you're coming.

Understand this: because adult business is what it is in the eyes of the world, you are welcome here, completely and without prejudice. We are open. But learn this place and how it functions, or rather how it exists in more of a individualistic state of formlessness, before you try to impose the structured, standard world's concepts upon it.

So, welcome aboard, take it mellow... and post away if there's anything you'd like to know about. We're all here :)

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

Moi?? :huh:

I am offended. :(

There is never any ulterior to my motive.











Trust Me :yowsa:

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

Ok, here's the rub. Working for Microsoft from '86-96 does not automatically give you creds in the internet world, especially not in the adult internet world.

That was a different time and place.

The only thing coming into this biz with lots of money does is make you perfect bait for the sharks. You are not just a penguin, you are a big, fat, juicy, sauteed and barbequed Penguin.




.

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

Someone mistook me for a penguin 2 weeks ago.

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

That is why you are supposed to wear the coat dammit :headwall:

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

Kelly Kelly wants me to develop a Rockabilly look.

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

Not working for over 10 years while all this really evolved gives me less credibility in adult internet which is a fact that I am fully aware of. But where I have to disagree is this mentality that adult is something "special" when the companies and people here that I have noticed have any merit or worth are those that know how to start a Corporation and run it like a real business which means having a mainstream approach and in many cases experience.

The deals I am working on now all have crossovers because overall the technology and the IT talent is brilliant in adult and way under valued and truely can cut the costs in mainstream. A really smart woman or man with a contact list and relationships cross industry to facilitate some of that now is brilliant. The adult stigma is lessend as the dollar decreases and the need to do more for less without involving outsourcing to other countries and L-1 Visas(especially with the need to bring jobs home)

I do have alterier motives that is also a fact. I don't care for the direction that our govt. has chosen to go in or the prosecutorial choices but in order to get the information I needed to best position and debate the issues I needed both sides of the story and experience - this is why I put myself out there to be critisized at the cost of instigating the debate and reviewing the strong opinions on all sides.

As I say we remove the content and your left with the same thing mainstream or adult (adult much more talented) but overall none of us are really that special and especially not me. I do have a talent for which those who have spent time with me are fully aware of which is why of all the people working in adult there's just the handful (two of whom ripped me off) that keep coming after me.

One thing is for sure the insults towards the lame attempts to defend myself are warranted and deserved because being under NDA with so many people I can't even talk about what I have really done of value or who I have worked with.

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

Here's the deal. Real world or internet. Adult or straight. There are not a lot of boutiques with CEO's. There are a lot of boutique businesses that do very well and afford their owners a good lifestyle. I don't make the same spectacular gains of the 90's.....few do. In fact business ain't exactly booming at the moment, but it does afford me a good middle class lifestyle with a couple of houses, cars, tv and a couple of trips every now and then. I still maintain that you are clueless with your NDA's and strong opinions. Save that shit for your Republican party Shortbread Socials.

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

I did make a lame attempt to personally give you my ethical/unethical opinion on your question after a 18 hour day but once again Mark/Greg have to hijack the thread. I guess if you would like to shape my opinion on these points or help me better understand we should do it offline.

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

I don't want to shape anything. I am nobody..lolol

It doesn't matter if they hijack a thread. Ignore them, grow a thicker skin and your survivability factor will go much higher.

You have already been ripped off twice at least. Stop letting it happen. Become more cynical, quickly.


"Adult webmaster boards ain't the Harvard Debate Club!"
- Mutt

"The height of MORONIC behavior seems to be when you think you are so much smarter than everyone else that you become self defeating."
- Win

"only bona fide MORONS have any ill feelings toward ANY board personality, 'cuz after all...it's just board personalities!"
- Serge





and perhaps my favorite ;p


"now lets have one of those happy board moments where we embrace and say 'your so great' :-))))"
- CJ

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

http://www.2Much.net
and then about 1 year later,
http://www.LiveCamNetwork.com

I started with 1 idea, and I stuck with it until I could finally afford the time to start a second idea. Today these 2 businesses (related) are all that I do.

Shellee Maybe you could stop listing your 2 dozen or so domain names on your business card and corporate site and stop bragging about them as if they are all different projects when they are really just upsells (whoohoo), and concentrate on 1 and 1 only.

Certainly, a CONSULTANT would probably tell you to build one successfull website before you start another. But hey, what do I know.

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

Rhetorical: I agree ! I am seriously laughing my ass off after that post. It's the stinkiest pile of horseshit yet thats for sure!

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

:wnw:

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

Shellee, If someone wanted to hire you as an expert consultant, but asked for a list of references, how would you resond?

This is a public forum that invites everyone to post their ideas and opinions and we like to share ours. No forum hijack intended,sorry.

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

[quote=2MuchMark;811799This is a public forum that invites everyone to post their ideas and opinions and we like to share ours. No forum hijack intended,sorry.[/quote]

ERROR:
The performer you want to chat with has logged off! Please Click HERE to return to main page

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

Such a nice little topic to beat around but instead it immediately degrades into participants questioning each other's expertise and authority.

I like the topic, so I'll comment even though as hammer will point out I never say anything that everyone doesn't already know.

The question itself is almost a contradiction, ethics and porn. The average person on the street in the U.S. would say selling porn is unethical. And bottom line it is a skeezy industry filled with skeezy characters. There are some business people here, those are the ones who are still thriving. But there are also a fair amount of people who for one reason or another would never fit in a 9-5 corporate world. There's also a lot of greed and people who are here because it's still easier money than mainstream web.

Bottom line, ethics do not weigh into many porn business plans. To be competitive you've got to push the edge of the envelop as much as you can get away with. The decision as to whether to do something like spam isn't usually based upon right or wrong but rather whether or not the juice is worth the squeeze. Will you go to jail? Will you get fined? Will the returns outweight the fine? Will my host shut me down? Can I find a chinese server to relay off of? These are the questions, not whether it is ethical.

Now in a perfect world where selling porn was no different than selling baseball caps online, you would be worried more about things like branding, company image, customer satisfaction and loyalty, repeat business, providing value, etc. I can guarantee you those type discussions are rarely had around porn boardtoom tables.

In that world you'd do none of the above, you want your surfers, err customers, to trust you.

There are some pay sites and genres that do this once you reach the sanctity of the pay site. That is a marketing model in and of itself. "Come in out of the wild, it's safe here". Give me $nn per month, i'll let you spank your monkey without without worrying about whether I've changed your home page, installed a tool bar and now I'm going to pop 20 windows everytime you click anything.

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

Conference room A

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

Even fewer have discussions about capacity planning, operations, system stability and change management.

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

Don't you have that sitting to cut and paste by now :yowsa:

You have stated that before and I agree completely :okthumb:

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

Those are topics for the safety meeting.

Re: SheleeHale...a serious question for you
 

Hijacking a thread means turning the thing off topic with posts focussed by one's personal agenda, and in this case my post/s was/were on topic and actually pretty fair to you.

I always appreciated your energy and gumption and don't feel I've shot out any insults or statements that are in any way smearing you or your reputation.

I've seen posts that erroneously assume you're experienced and knowdledgeable, which you acknowledge you're not. Because of this perception some people might take erroneous statements or imputations you make with more weight than they deserve.

I made statements that I hoped would give you a certain insight on how you're perceived on this board because of statements you have made out of context or without prior understanding.

I tried to smooth over these impulsive outbursts on your part by posting that explanation of how things aren't quite what you think six months, 12 months, 2 years and so on into the business. But you have to have an open mind to learn, and not come to the whole thing with preconceived notions.

If my opinion doesn't have weight with you because of our past unfortunate association, that's too bad. I'm not the best known or highest respected individual around here, but neither has anyone ever had cause to start a thread about me to call in question any opinion, knowledge or statements I've made.