Webmaster outsourcing

[fusionx]

Who would be the best outsourcing company to use for simple HTML work like basic templates, and maybe some light customer service, like assisting newbies with CGI permissions, etc?

No phone calls required, just e-mail, IM and message board support stuff..

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by fusionx

Who would be the best outsourcing company to use for simple HTML work like basic templates, and maybe some light customer service, like assisting newbies with CGI permissions, etc?

No phone calls required, just e-mail, IM and message board support stuff..

No one in the Phillipines.

[fusionx]

lol - I learned that lesson!

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by fusionx

lol - I learned that lesson!

Im sure the sig whore's boardtracker are all going off. Just think before monday you will have all sorts of... responses for you to "hit them up".

Every project Ive outsourced to any company in that country goes something like this...

First 3 weeks...excellent. Fast and furious service and worth what you pay for it.

2nd Month - Im sorry My hard drive crashed. Would you like to rent server space so that I have a back up of all your work?

- Sorry. I didnt get your email. Can you resend to this address.

- Its a holiday here I wont be in the office for the next 3 days.

3rd month
-Sorry I didnt get your email with the changes. Can you resend to this address?

-I have to take my sister to the hospital today I wont be able to do those changes.

-My computer has a virus. Would you like to rent server space so that I can have a back up of all your work?

-Its a holiday here I will be out of the office for 2 days.

4th month
-Some one stole my computer with all of your work on it. Would you like to rent server space so I can have a back up of all your work?

-My grandmother died. I will be out of the office today.

-Its a festival here all week. I wont be in the office.

-Sorry our office email isnt working. I didnt recieve the changes and my ICQ is offline.

How close is this to your experience?

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Im sure the sig whore's boardtracker are all going off. Just think before monday you will have all sorts of... responses for you to "hit them up".

Every project Ive outsourced to any company in that country goes something like this...

First 3 weeks...excellent. Fast and furious service and worth what you pay for it.

2nd Month - Im sorry My hard drive crashed. Would you like to rent server space so that I have a back up of all your work?

- Sorry. I didnt get your email. Can you resend to this address.

- Its a holiday here I wont be in the office for the next 3 days.

3rd month
-Sorry I didnt get your email with the changes. Can you resend to this address?

-I have to take my sister to the hospital today I wont be able to do those changes.

-My computer has a virus. Would you like to rent server space so that I can have a back up of all your work?

-Its a holiday here I will be out of the office for 2 days.

4th month
-Some one stole my computer with all of your work on it. Would you like to rent server space so I can have a back up of all your work?

-My grandmother died. I will be out of the office today.

-Its a festival here all week. I wont be in the office.

-Sorry our office email isnt working. I didnt recieve the changes and my ICQ is offline.

How close is this to your experience?

I think I scared off Carina.


Or it could just be a holiday.

[Hammer]

I'd say Gonzo nailed it and not just with Phillipine outsource designers, but with all of them I've dealt with, no matter where they are from.

Disclaimer: When I say 'outsource' I'm DO NOT mean 'freelance'. There's a difference.

[spazlabz]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Im sure the sig whore's boardtracker are all going off. Just think before monday you will have all sorts of... responses for you to "hit them up".

Every project Ive outsourced to any company in that country goes something like this...

First 3 weeks...excellent. Fast and furious service and worth what you pay for it.

2nd Month - Im sorry My hard drive crashed. Would you like to rent server space so that I have a back up of all your work?

- Sorry. I didnt get your email. Can you resend to this address.

- Its a holiday here I wont be in the office for the next 3 days.

3rd month
-Sorry I didnt get your email with the changes. Can you resend to this address?

-I have to take my sister to the hospital today I wont be able to do those changes.

-My computer has a virus. Would you like to rent server space so that I can have a back up of all your work?

-Its a holiday here I will be out of the office for 2 days.

4th month
-Some one stole my computer with all of your work on it. Would you like to rent server space so I can have a back up of all your work?

-My grandmother died. I will be out of the office today.

-Its a festival here all week. I wont be in the office.

-Sorry our office email isnt working. I didnt recieve the changes and my ICQ is offline.

How close is this to your experience?

LMFAO!!!
oh my gawd that is sooooo true
I also had one spring an unmentioned wife on me who just had a baby = a week off

[XOS_Andrei_G]

Originally Posted by gonzo

No one in the Phillipines.

Ouch. Which company did you use anyway? It's a bit wrong to generalize like that. Although I don't disagree with what you just posted (unfortunately) but some people in the Philippines (especially freelancers) do take the work seriously. There are companies that don't actually practice the whole Philippine holiday thing (because it's only an option to) and have better HR rotations.

[softball]

I lived in Manila. You learn quickly that business there is based totally on the quick buck. It gets very boring. So what Gonzo posted makes perfect sense. I kind of go by the rule of thumb school of business. There are certain nationalities I will not do business with. Just like Visa. Russians, Nigerians, Filipinos. I am sure you guys could add a few more to this list. But these guys are at the top of mine...in that order.

[spazlabz]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

There are certain nationalities I will not do business with. Just like Visa. Russians, Nigerians, Filipinos. I am sure you guys could add a few more to this list. But these guys are at the top of mine...in that order.

Enlighten me please
Russians - why
Nigerians - I think I know but... why
Filipinos - why

in defense of a lot of Filipinos that I have worked with some of them do outstanding work. My biggest problem with them has been a consistant lack of following instructions. After working with a group of them very closely for over a year I developed a style of communication that was remarkable. I found myself describing the work that needed to be done down to the absolute smallest detail
and I would repeat myself several times in the instructions on the more important things... over and over and over... they still 'forgot'

But not all of them are like that and some do extremely good work for a price that is very affordable.


spaz

[Matt Collins]

I don't know what companies you guys are talking about, but I have used iwebmasters for over a year now and I love my guys.

Of course, the iWebmaster guys would tell you that they are staff leasing and not outsourcing.

I have four employees doing everything from system administration to programming to web design.

Also, iWebmasters is owned by Rick Latona and Dee and they run a quality company.

While results may vary, I can only speak to my opinion and I have nothing but good things to say about these guys.

Matt

[softball]

Originally Posted by spazlabz

Enlighten me please
Russians - why
Nigerians - I think I know but... why
Filipinos - why

in defense of a lot of Filipinos that I have worked with some of them do outstanding work. My biggest problem with them has been a consistant lack of following instructions. After working with a group of them very closely for over a year I developed a style of communication that was remarkable. I found myself describing the work that needed to be done down to the absolute smallest detail
and I would repeat myself several times in the instructions on the more important things... over and over and over... they still 'forgot'

But not all of them are like that and some do extremely good work for a price that is very affordable.


spaz

Russians are nearly all crooks. I am sure there are a few honest ones, but I did say rule of thumb. Up to you if you want to take the chance.
Flips?
Well, you actually answered your own question.

[Jace]

Originally Posted by XOS_Andrei_G

Ouch. Which company did you use anyway? It's a bit wrong to generalize like that. Although I don't disagree with what you just posted (unfortunately) but some people in the Philippines (especially freelancers) do take the work seriously. There are companies that don't actually practice the whole Philippine holiday thing (because it's only an option to) and have better HR rotations.

oh shit, did your board tracker go off? or are you actually following me around to every forum

be forwarned guys, this guy loves to bump 3 year old threads to spam his sig

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by XOS_Andrei_G

Ouch. Which company did you use anyway? It's a bit wrong to generalize like that. Although I don't disagree with what you just posted (unfortunately) but some people in the Philippines (especially freelancers) do take the work seriously. There are companies that don't actually practice the whole Philippine holiday thing (because it's only an option to) and have better HR rotations.

Read the rest of the posts. Its not a generalization.

[Hammer]

It was only a matter of time till Boardtracker dragged xxxoutsourcing here and they are precisely one of the companies we're talking about.

[Forsberg's Dog]

Originally Posted by XOS_Andrei_G

Ouch. Which company did you use anyway? It's a bit wrong to generalize like that. Although I don't disagree with what you just posted (unfortunately) but some people in the Philippines (especially freelancers) do take the work seriously. There are companies that don't actually practice the whole Philippine holiday thing (because it's only an option to) and have better HR rotations.

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[Forest]

I employee 5 guys in the PI

I have to say I have rarely ever had a problem with productivity

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by Forest

I employee 5 guys in the PI

I have to say I have rarely ever had a problem with productivity

I thought you had all Ruskies?
Have you got a website up yet?

[JR]

Originally Posted by fusionx

Who would be the best outsourcing company to use for simple HTML work like basic templates, and maybe some light customer service, like assisting newbies with CGI permissions, etc?

No phone calls required, just e-mail, IM and message board support stuff..

also... just a general answer for people to think about since the idea of "cheap labor" seems real enticing BUT usually results in headaches and lost money.


i think design is an issue seperate from all other issues. its the simplest issue to deal with. otherwise, you are basically talking about hiring an employee for other needs.. WITHOUT the benefit of an interview, a resume and talking to them at all. you are taking someone elses word that this person can fulfill all your needs to a T because you have no idea.

my personal advice from experience of managing many people remotely is to ease into it...be ready that its going to be a fuck story every time until you have some time to find the person that works for you. you can't even begin to grasp the frustration of communication issues that are waiting for you. you really can't. its going to be bad if you are looking for an ongoing relationship. everything is going to seem simple to you, clear, straightforward and the other person is going to be telling you every step of the way that they "get it" - they wont most of the time. lost money. lost time. lost customers.

i speak russian so i frequently work with a lot of russians and ukrainians and do so without problem. it took a lot of trial and error and being fluent in both languages did not make communication much easier since the whole business, porn, making a sale etc etc etc on the web is still for the most part, going to be a foreign concept to them.

like any employee/employer relationship, it begins with hiring well... if you don't have the benefit of an interview, of talking to that person about their experiences, seeing samples of their work, learning about their character and personality... in the real world NO ONE would hire someone under those circumstances.

start slow.... test the waters. don't make a serious comittment to anyone (all the idiots in the philippines seem to be big fans of the hard sell - a BIG red light). if you do, you will screw yourself and regret it.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by JR

also... just a general answer for people to think about since the idea of "cheap labor" seems real enticing BUT usually results in headaches and lost money.


i think design is an issue seperate from all other issues. its the simplest issue to deal with. otherwise, you are basically talking about hiring an employee for other needs.. WITHOUT the benefit of an interview, a resume and talking to them at all. you are taking someone elses word that this person can fulfill all your needs to a T because you have no idea.

my personal advice from experience of managing many people remotely is to ease into it...be ready that its going to be a fuck story every time until you have some time to find the person that works for you. you can't even begin to grasp the frustration of communication issues that are waiting for you. you really can't. its going to be bad if you are looking for an ongoing relationship. everything is going to seem simple to you, clear, straightforward and the other person is going to be telling you every step of the way that they "get it" - they wont most of the time. lost money. lost time. lost customers.

i speak russian so i frequently work with a lot of russians and ukrainians and do so without problem. it took a lot of trial and error and being fluent in both languages did not make communication much easier since the whole business, porn, making a sale etc etc etc on the web is still for the most part, going to be a foreign concept to them.

like any employee/employer relationship, it begins with hiring well... if you don't have the benefit of an interview, of talking to that person about their experiences, seeing samples of their work, learning about their character and personality... in the real world NO ONE would hire someone under those circumstances.

start slow.... test the waters. don't make a serious comittment to anyone (all the idiots in the philippines seem to be big fans of the hard sell - a BIG red light). if you do, you will screw yourself and regret it.

I direct this to both Matt and JR.
The initial appeal of oursourcing at least for me wasn't the cheap labor.

I honestly dont trust MOST design firms in this industry.

I do not trust them with my exclusive content.
I do not trust them with my design concepts and ideas.

...and finally I can not trust them not to use my stuff as a template to be reused for the next client.

This industry is very small in terms of people running their mouth. If you dont believe it... watch the next drama thread on GFY and see how many cocksuckers chime in to say that they know whats going on but they said they wouldnt tell.

That is why I sought out work to be outsourced.

[JR]

Originally Posted by gonzo

I direct this to both Matt and JR.
The initial appeal of oursourcing at least for me wasn't the cheap labor.

I honestly dont trust MOST design firms in this industry.

I do not trust them with my exclusive content.
I do not trust them with my design concepts and ideas.

...and finally I can not trust them not to use my stuff as a template to be reused for the next client.

This industry is very small in terms of people running their mouth. If you dont believe it... watch the next drama thread on GFY and see how many cocksuckers chime in to say that they know whats going on but they said they wouldnt tell.

That is why I sought out work to be outsourced.

i understand that. as i said in the beginning, "design" is something that can be excluded from the conversation because its not the same as hiring a cheap employee on an ongoing basis. thats a nightmare that people need to be careful of and not be woo'ed by the fact that you can hire a "SEO expert" for 800.00/mo who is basically going to be a retard going down the same 20 point checklist that any site owner could do for themselves.

[qUeenBeE]

Originally Posted by fusionx

Who would be the best outsourcing company to use for simple HTML work like basic templates, and maybe some light customer service, like assisting newbies with CGI permissions, etc?

No phone calls required, just e-mail, IM and message board support stuff..

If you're still looking...

fusionx, We have 2 guys who can handle that job. You can always choose between them. NO setup fees, NO contract, NO hidden charges, hit me up lets talk more.


p.s. We work with adult and mainstream websites. We have great & responsible managers behind the company. Give us a chance to earn your business, cheers!

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by qUeenBeE

If you're still looking...

fusionx, We have 2 guys who can handle that job. You can always choose between them. NO setup fees, NO contract, NO hidden charges, hit me up lets talk more.


p.s. We work with adult and mainstream websites. We have great & responsible managers behind the company. Give us a chance to earn your business, cheers!

Participating on the board other than pushing your services would be a great way to build confidence.

[Hammer]

That's funny. This thread is pretty much bashing outsourcing and we get one that jumps in a spams their service. I bet she never even read the thread.

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by qUeenBeE

If you're still looking...

fusionx, We have 2 guys who can handle that job. You can always choose between them. NO setup fees, NO contract, NO hidden charges, hit me up lets talk more.


p.s. We work with adult and mainstream websites. We have great & responsible managers behind the company. Give us a chance to earn your business, cheers!

Will you hire 'em out and accept payment at the end of a month's work instead of in advance?

That's the only way I'd ever touch offshore stuff again. It restores their incentive to actually deliver what they promise they can.

[softball]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

Will you hire 'em out and accept payment at the end of a month's work instead of in advance?

That's the only way I'd ever touch offshore stuff again. It restores their incentive to actually deliver what they promise they can.

Why on earth would you ever pay for something in advance? That is a no brainer.
You actually did that?

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

Why on earth would you ever pay for something in advance? That is a no brainer.
You actually did that?

Try hiring one of these fucknuts with a "Ill gladly pay you on Tuesday".

Matter of fact see how many of them come in the thread to accept the pay at the end of the month.

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

Why on earth would you ever pay for something in advance? That is a no brainer.
You actually did that?

Here's how it works...or worked....

You get 2 weeks free. Now keep in mind they tell you, you have a dedicated resource that works just for you for 8 hours a day.

During the first two weeks, you're going to see excellent results. What I think is happening behind the scenes is you get their best people at whatever you're hiring done working for you. They'll be fast and turn out some excellent work. When it comes time to pay for that first month and keep 'em, you'll figure "what the hell, I already got my money's worth..."

Now for the first month, you'll still get decent performance, just maybe unspectacular. They'll slow down a bit over the course of the month, you'll usually be giving them more complex tasks and may rationalize this is "normal". At this point, I think you're getting a mix of staff and/or your "resource" is also working on stuff for 2-3 other clients. But again, you'll figure "what the hell" because you've seen the potential and still are getting a bargain.

Now the second month is when you'll be tested. They'll see where your tolerance levels are for absentee-ism and production output. They'll slow down and take days off til you bitch and threaten to cancel at this point. I suspect at this point you're getting trainee's and only an hour or two a day at that. Bitch and they'll pick it up slightly to try to retain you. Bitch alot and they might slide someone with more experience back your way and show you some decent work, especially if it's near time for the next bill.

I dont know anyone who has made it past month three. I quit when the responsiveness went to nothing and it took an entire day of bitching just to get one gallery out of them that looked like something GonZo might throw together with Frontpage and a copy of Corel Draw for DOS.

[Jon12345]

Anyone here happy to have a chat with me on any of the messengers about outsourcing to the Philippines's (or maybe elsewhere). I am looking to do this imminently. AIM/ICQ/MSN/Yahoo are all good with me.