I was looking through my dilbert calendar (yes, I have a fucking dilbert calender...Make fun of it and I'll slap you with my sliderule dammit) and there was one in there where dogbert is outlining his business plan and Ratbert starts gagging.

Dogbert says "When my marketing practices make a rat gag, I know I'm on the right track"


Made me think of you Nick :yowsa: (in a totally loving yet surprisingly Non gay way of course)

I've never been known for my soft sell approach , mate LOL

Depends on what niche you going for...

Hirsute, set the shave at 0%
Average girl next door amateur set the shave at say 50%
Shaved Niche set it at 100%


Niche drive everything :zoinks: [/b][/quote]
:unsure:

S, I seriously thought you were trying to break programs down by niche on who shaves what :biglaugh:


I think its hilarious that this whole thread is based on the premise that all sponsors shave ... you would truly be amazed to find out how many don't. :lol:

no seriously ............

the guys who made the statements about turning traffic off and coming back later so the shave has been turned off ... do you have stats to back this up? can you show exact numbers and detail the times and dates you turned it off and back on again etc?

to assume that an affiliate program owner sits there and looks at every account every day or week and presses some button that says 'no joins? turn shave off' is rediculous. of course backends can be written to automate, but this conspiracy theory is really reaching. i can tell you some very creative ways programs shave, but this is way more complicated than is necessary.

I'm always getting webmasters abusing me with shit like this over the years stating that their conversions have dropped therefore we must be shaving. Once a webmaster accused me of what you are claiming above with the bling ... it turns out the site was mostly bookmarkers and revisiting traffic - they took us down for a while when conversions started to drop (because the ads had been seen over and over) and then put us back up a month later and got a bunch of signups straight away (new eyes, new banners, new joins) ......

the most annoying part was that he immediately made up his mind we were shaving and got himself worked into a state of 'sponsors are bad therefore you are ripping me off' that made him miss an opportunity to learn something about keeping ad content fresh and utilizing bookmarker traffic effectively.

remember what assume stands for ;-)

Most programs use 3rd party processors. If you can get access to the processing records you would be shocked how many transactions are rejected. The scrub plays a large part in that. However, the downtime and problems that processors have are TOO FREQUENT, and never really publicized.

CCBill is always having problems, and denying them, and then eventually coming back and finally admiting they had problems. Of course they batch everyhing! haha

Numbers do not lie. Any webmaster worth their salt knows then the processors are having problems..... [/b][/quote]
Thanks for the info Mike, it nice to hear things from someone with knowledge on processing problems :)

Wow this turned out to be a real eye opener of a thread for me, lots of different views and opinions :o

Thanks everyone for your input it really has clouded the water for me a little but I'm sure that when it clears I'll get it :)

Even with all of the other factors that people have produced no one has denied that there is a shave going on :huh:

exactly i think thats what i mean with numbers. if it doesnt sound like that well i agree with you on this.

:unsure:

S, I seriously thought you were trying to break programs down by niche on who shaves what :biglaugh:


I think its hilarious that this whole thread is based on the premise that all sponsors shave ... you would truly be amazed to find out how many don't. :lol:

no seriously ............

the guys who made the statements about turning traffic off and coming back later so the shave has been turned off ... do you have stats to back this up? can you show exact numbers and detail the times and dates you turned it off and back on again etc?

to assume that an affiliate program owner sits there and looks at every account every day or week and presses some button that says 'no joins? turn shave off' is rediculous. of course backends can be written to automate, but this conspiracy theory is really reaching. i can tell you some very creative ways programs shave, but this is way more complicated than is necessary.

I'm always getting webmasters abusing me with shit like this over the years stating that their conversions have dropped therefore we must be shaving. Once a webmaster accused me of what you are claiming above with the bling ... it turns out the site was mostly bookmarkers and revisiting traffic - they took us down for a while when conversions started to drop (because the ads had been seen over and over) and then put us back up a month later and got a bunch of signups straight away (new eyes, new banners, new joins) ......

the most annoying part was that he immediately made up his mind we were shaving and got himself worked into a state of 'sponsors are bad therefore you are ripping me off' that made him miss an opportunity to learn something about keeping ad content fresh and utilizing bookmarker traffic effectively.

remember what assume stands for ;-) [/b][/quote]
ok here we go Igor now going to whip out the techie book.
any big program out there when i say big i mean big enough to have inhouse programmers crunching code can have stats on the fly. systems can be programed so that every minute you can have who is doing whatever amount of singups per minute (if you want to go that close) and raise flags and let you tweak whatever you want with a couple of clicks


with that said anyone that can not do that
1. is not a big sponsor
2. doesn´t have programming power
3. is depending on 3rd parties too much

as far as stats goes. all i have to do is compare whatever traffic i send to whatever traffic they report and trust me there are always differences. thats when you see 1rst page 2nd page and 3rd page click counting etc etc.

my point is you can not be naive about this. and yes traffic can be monitored and signups can be monitored.

I agree with nick on this. who the fuck cares if they shave as long as i get a big paycheck. the problem is when you got a big paycheck 1 period and next period you don´t with the same amount of traffic.


I have 2 things to say.

sponsors if you shave good for you that means you are big enough to shave but keep the people you shave by giving good money to them not cutting their income.

affiliates make sure you do your homework and just play with your traffic and whenever you get a sponsor that says no we don´t shave but you thin they do don´t send them traffic period they either suck or their site got stale. NOTE: DO THIS ONLY IF YOU ARE SURE YOU ARE NOT THE ONE FUCKING UP LIKE I SAID BEFORE

Theres some excellent points and advice in this here thread :wnw:

ok. please continue as I'm sitting with my note pad :agrin:

Ok then I'll stop crying shave everytime my ratios go all to fuck but I will keep pulling my traffic when it does!

I could write a novel on this subject.

But, as in anything else, take some personal responsibility for staying educated on your site metrics. Track your outbound hits, track your ad views, track your CTR. Tweak, squeeze, massage every penny out of your traffic that you can.

Mix up your PPS and Recurring programs, don't do all one or the other. We're sending checks to people that moved on from our program years ago. Ask Peaches. (when she's ready to be asked questions again)

What Mike AI said was very true about processors, we don't live in a perfect technological world. Things break. Scrubbing is tighter than a prom queen's butt crack these days as well.

If you find the golden traffic, you're lucky. Those are the folks you're after. The people that are surfing, not for porn, but for something else. Then, magically, they wind up at your site by some happenstance. Their curiousity got them off track. Those are the ones that whip out the plastic in many cases.

There's also a shitload of money to be made "in the fringe". That was covered in another thread.

I'm gonna shut up now. :nyanya:

I was going to say that.

If you have recuring traffic, sponsors will always work better at the begining and than die down a bit...

If you have bookmarks/recuring type traffic, you should ALREADY KNOW that you have to always give them something different. Hell, you should definitely have a rotation of sponsors going all the time. And I dont mean changing it every week, I mean a script that rotates the ads at every refresh.

If you dont, you're stupid. Luckily that can be cured.

In some cases yes but there are definitely cases in this world of termial stupidity... :blink:

As I've always said, that was probably the most valuable lesson I learned about this business.

Bank tellers dont cash stats reports and the branch manager doesnt give a damn about conversion ratios.

Who is sending you the best check the fastest for a given amount of traffic?

I don't care if someone even has stats, as long as my check don't bounce.

Serge's stats were simple MKStats.

but his wires bought me a Bentley :)

>>>I don't care if someone even has stats

:lol:

these poor newbies :biglaugh: they are going to be so confused :rolleyes:
i wouldn't be starting out in this biz now for anything!!!

How right you are :unsure:

How right you are :unsure: [/b][/quote]
I think there are a few of us all sharing a ride in the same boat here :(

Why not start in this biz right now? You see, most hobbyist surfers that have a notion to dabble into this biz's first exposure is probably the free shit. They've hit a TGP or picpost or MGP (whatever). They, of course, assume that "hey! I can do this!" then start using sponsor content or FHG's in an attempt to make a few bucks. After the first month, they've burned 15-30GB of bandwidth, can't pay for their hosting, and have made about $3.50 (just approximating of course)

If you have half a brain you can make around $500 per day and not even burn any bandwidth to speak of. You just have to use the right kind of program and get some eyeballs on it (which is easy if you know how to do that). :ph34r:

No spamming, nothing sleazy. Just taking advantage of the intuitively obvious and "power fucking" ( © 1995 - 2005 BillPMB ) it. :)

Send a couple thousand signups to PMB, I'll put you on easy street. :nyanya:

Could you lend me a couple of thousand sign ups and I'll pay you back when I can :biglaugh:

What is intuitively obvious to one is often invisible to another...

:blink:

What is intuitively obvious to one is often invisible to another...

:blink: [/b][/quote]
if its 'intuitively obvious' to you, then it will be impossible for someone else to see it. intuition has nothing to do with brains, its about reading your own path to success.

what's 'intuitively obvious' to you will almost certainly not work for someone else anyway ... because its based on your interpretation of factors in your own business and life.

but not to worry Sarettah, its just a Bill technique to try to convince us all we are stupid for not seeing his greater knowledge :rolleyes:

Hahaha, turn 'em off, turn 'em on. Turn 'em off, turn 'em on.

He charged buyers less and paid more.

I guess he made it up on volume for real ;)

It's working :blink:



Damn, another little piece of that old "social engineering" :zoinks:

Why should I have to convince you CJ? Most women are just a life support system for a vagina, and while I'm glad ya'll volunteer for that job, I'm sure the benefits suck. ;)

(not Lisa though, that woman is gold)

Just find something that pays well, and slag it with traffic, you'll make money. A no brainer.

:nyanya:

CJ, please don't pick a fight with me, I'm not being cryptic, I like to think folks that read this stuff don't walk around with their knuckles dragging on the ground.

Checking stats:...........

WOOOT! :rokk:

Ah, there's the rub...... :blink:

"Just find something that pays well ,and slag it with traffic,""

Agree 100%

And the now bad news....

a.) getting the traffic to slap "it" with
b.) You'll find "it" is not porn



IMHO...