Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?

[Hell Puppy]

That's the good and bad of vegas for a show.

Everyone has different tastes in hotels, and there's something for anyone's preference and wallet. It makes for a very attractive destination because of that and there being so much to do other than the show.

But that is also the problem with Vegas shows. It's a BEAR to get everyone you want to see in the same place at the same time. If you dont have someone's cell number and/or a pre-arranged meet, you can both spend 5 days in town and never once see each other.

[Hell Puppy]

Also, timing of CES/AEE does not really allow for running a show like Internext BEFORE they come to down due to the proximity of New Years.

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

That's the good and bad of vegas for a show.

Everyone has different tastes in hotels, and there's something for anyone's preference and wallet. It makes for a very attractive destination because of that and there being so much to do other than the show.

But that is also the problem with Vegas shows. It's a BEAR to get everyone you want to see in the same place at the same time. If you dont have someone's cell number and/or a pre-arranged meet, you can both spend 5 days in town and never once see each other.

Real old fashioned way to solve that.
Bulletin board with pieces of paper on it.
Right inside the gate, and don't charge people to use it, for shit's sake.

[gonzo]

I fear this thread will come to an untimely end . . .

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by gonzo

I fear this thread will come to an untimely end . . .

As predicted...

Anyone seen a date for the 2010 show anywhere?

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by EmporerEJ

Real old fashioned way to solve that.
Bulletin board with pieces of paper on it.
Right inside the gate, and don't charge people to use it, for shit's sake.

I'm sure there's a high tech equivalent...hell that's an opportunity for someone. I'd say 80% plus of show attendee's tote smart phones of one sort or another.

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

I'm sure there's a high tech equivalent...hell that's an opportunity for someone. I'd say 80% plus of show attendee's tote smart phones of one sort or another.

That's the problem...all that connectivity, and no one to connect to.

[Cleo]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

I'm sure there's a high tech equivalent...hell that's an opportunity for someone. I'd say 80% plus of show attendee's tote smart phones of one sort or another.

Augmented Reality Porn Apps?

[C H R I S 2.0]

right on gonzo

[brand0n]

i guess in my older years im trying to move as far away from name calling and shit strirring as possible. its never done me a bit of good really.

i moved back to myrtle beach sc. i still have my house (being rented currently) in charlotte and ive rented a beach house for the time being until i can figure out what life holds for me next.

as it stands i am in ohio with my programing team working on a new traffic venture. pulling an all nighter currently. heading back to the beach on the 5th or so, then down to FL for a few days to work on a deal with a fellow traffic webmaster, see if we cant swap some of my gray hat non productive mainstream traffic for some of his black hat productive adult traffic.

guess im getting old gonz.. if its not about making a dollar, saving a dollar or securing a dollar all ready made, im not really into it any more. both time and life are short. im not going to waste either unless its on one of those 3 above.

how you doing? back in ga eh? tell erica i said hello, and that ive never wished ill of her, instead wished the best.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by brand0n

i guess in my older years im trying to move as far away from name calling and shit strirring as possible. its never done me a bit of good really.

i moved back to myrtle beach sc. i still have my house (being rented currently) in charlotte and ive rented a beach house for the time being until i can figure out what life holds for me next.

as it stands i am in ohio with my programing team working on a new traffic venture. pulling an all nighter currently. heading back to the beach on the 5th or so, then down to FL for a few days to work on a deal with a fellow traffic webmaster, see if we cant swap some of my gray hat non productive mainstream traffic for some of his black hat productive adult traffic.

guess im getting old gonz.. if its not about making a dollar, saving a dollar or securing a dollar all ready made, im not really into it any more. both time and life are short. im not going to waste either unless its on one of those 3 above.

how you doing? back in ga eh? tell erica i said hello, and that ive never wished ill of her, instead wished the best.

Age is inevitable for all of us but it beats the alternative.
We are both back in Atlanta. I had family and a house here to return to when the task was completed.

Erika is doing well with the chance to make decisions for herself. And she agrees life is too short to be worried about board drama.

[Erika]

Originally Posted by brand0n

i guess in my older years im trying to move as far away from name calling and shit strirring as possible. its never done me a bit of good really.

i moved back to myrtle beach sc. i still have my house (being rented currently) in charlotte and ive rented a beach house for the time being until i can figure out what life holds for me next.

as it stands i am in ohio with my programing team working on a new traffic venture. pulling an all nighter currently. heading back to the beach on the 5th or so, then down to FL for a few days to work on a deal with a fellow traffic webmaster, see if we cant swap some of my gray hat non productive mainstream traffic for some of his black hat productive adult traffic.

guess im getting old gonz.. if its not about making a dollar, saving a dollar or securing a dollar all ready made, im not really into it any more. both time and life are short. im not going to waste either unless its on one of those 3 above.

how you doing? back in ga eh? tell erica i said hello, and that ive never wished ill of her, instead wished the best.

There is nothing anyone can say or do to offend me We are who we are.

[MikeSouth]

There has been some good constructive ideas here, but one of the things I see lacking is how the show is marketed. The show organizers need to look at whom they are trying to attract and for what.

lets take adult expo because its the perfect example.

Used to be you had to have some sort of reason to be there. You had to at least ut up the facade that you were involved in the industry...even when a CES badge would get you in. They didn't advertise on the radio and late night TV to come see suzy sukskok at the Sahara Convention Center Fri afternoon where sumlameniggas will be rappin their latest attempt at music and imwithstupid.com will be giving away 1000 dollars cash to whoever can best imitate steve o

Sure there were tire kickers, lots of them but they at least had to bother to print up a business card that related them to the industry.

When AVN figured out they could make money by inviting the dumb masses to see suzy, sumlameniggas and "morans" all for the low low price of 50 bucks per person per day or whatever the focus of the show shifted....from a business show to a fan show.

What they failed to do was offset the exhibitors cost, now the exhibitor is there to entertain the fans, not to do business and the cost to provide that entertainment has gone WAY up and exhibitors are dropping out because there is no ROI on suzy, sumlameniggas and a moran.

The same thing has happened to the adult internet shows that have been taken over by porn valley.

I mean when you have Joanna Angel speaking on a panel to adult webmasters and she says her site gets "5 million hits a day" that should tell you something....This actually happened and the guy next to me says to me shit I didn't know she owns google.

The bottom line here is if you want the show to be industry focused market it that way and do some q c on your product.

I dont go to shows whose main focus is Suzy Sukskok will be at the fantasy island booth and sumlameniggas will perform at the party we are throwing on Saturday night which, btw, costs 100.00 per person to attend but we do give you a chair and a bottle of andre cold duck but only if there are at least 4 of you......

[gonzo]

[quote=MikeSouth;829718

I mean when you have Joanna Angel speaking on a panel to adult webmasters and she says her site gets "5 million hits a day" that should tell you something....This actually happened and the guy next to me says to me shit I didn't know she owns google.

.[/quote]
She also said not to do anything but constantly shoot content for 2 years too. And I still dont think she owns google.

We heard a lot of bullshit come off of that panel. Program owners that talk in 3rd person was the other example. Shit I didnt know The Rock was in porn.

Joanna is a smart and articulate woman. She does know how to market to her fans but I dont think she knew how a typical person gets into this business without the backing of the west coast. There were a lot of new girls starting out in that biz in that room in Tampa and they asked a lot of questions outside of the seminar to diffuse a lot of misinformation on that panel. She should have kept KevinG on staff to help her out. But who am I to say anything to her as she is doing quite well. Point is that I dont think this was the best use of her as a show draw.

I still contend and tell Jay this constantly that the Tampa show was the best Cybernet Expo Ive ever been to. And Ive been to most of them in the past even when I was dog assed broke and staying 15 miles offsite to be able to attend.

[Robert]

First seminar I went to at a show in '00, I was eager to learn but left dissapointed. Second one I spent half asleep with a drink in my hand listenning to the same crap I'd heard at the first. Never bothered with a third.

[RawAlex]

MikeSouth, one of the problems is when the show people and the attendees no longer have the same goals. Basically, a good "business" show has the goal of bringing all the major players together under one roof, creating a situation where people can meet, get business done, find new products, programs, whatever, and get things done. When the show has that goal, they profit when things go right.

Well, in AVN's case, the webmaster shows are now just excuses for a 3 day bender and exchange of beers to keep people as "top notch bros". The AEE show is now more about entertaining the public rather than getting business done.

I am sure that in both shows, business is done - but it isn't the goal of the shows, as as a result, the purpose of the shows has slipped away from the average webmaster / producer.

AVN's aim is purely bottom line at this point, so if selling $50 tickets to the droolers and selling $300 badges to the webmasters is the way to make money, they are there. But as has been shown in the last couple of years, the attendance is dropping, the exhibitor count at the AEE show is dropping (the back half of the show floor this year was, umm, more like a flea market than anything else). The writing is on the wall.

[Toby]

The days of "panel" seminars being acceptible has come and gone. From what I've seen in the numerous comments across several boards on the future of trade shows, that's probably the most universal. The seminars have to be improved, more formal, more relevant, more informative.

Atlanta Forum last year brought in speakers on general business topics. Those went over well, other than being a bit early in the day for this crowd.

The live shoot demo by Spannow and crew at Cybernet got rave reviews.

I don't recall anyone even mentioning any of the panels at various shows in a positive light.

I hope there are a few show organizers lurking out there, reading along, taking notes...

[Erika]

I have only been to 2 trade shows. The Costa Rica show and the Atlanta forum. Costa Rica to me was not much of a biz show, but more of a vacation for freeloaders. The Atlanta Forum I did not get to experience too much because of the person I went to those shows with. In my opinion, consumer shows would be the most beneficial. You target the people you want to really do business with. Having drinks with webmasters and half the people at a trade show who usually don't do squat in porn in a waste. I consider those the "bro" and "big baller" shows.

I say target the consumers and if you know what you are doing, you really don't need many affiliates. Webmaster shows have become nothing but a popularity dick sucking contest and with the economy, not many go to them as much as they did.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by Erika

I say target the consumers and if you know what you are doing, you really don't need many affiliates. Webmaster shows have become nothing but a popularity dick sucking contest and with the economy, not many go to them as much as they did.

Trade shows, by definition, are not consumer shows. They're for people who are in the trade.

Consumer shows can be very beneficial for producers and performers, but they really only work well in LARGE markets. AEE in Vegas during, or overlapping, with CES for example, or the Erotica shows in Los Angeles. Consumers are not going to travel outside their local area to attend.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by Toby

Trade shows, by definition, are not consumer shows. They're for people who are in the trade.

Consumer shows can be very beneficial for producers and performers, but they really only work well in LARGE markets. AEE in Vegas during, or overlapping, with CES for example, or the Erotica shows in Los Angeles. Consumers are not going to travel outside their local area to attend.

Shes talking about the invasion styled promos we did the last couple of years into consumer shows.

When we were doing the panels and dragoncon and frolicon to promote existing and new sites. Worked out quite well.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Shes talking about the invasion styled promos we did the last couple of years into consumer shows.

When we were doing the panels and dragoncon and frolicon to promote existing and new sites. Worked out quite well.

But that's not really relevant to Adult Trade Shows.

[RawAlex]

Originally Posted by Erika

I have only been to 2 trade shows. The Costa Rica show and the Atlanta forum. Costa Rica to me was not much of a biz show, but more of a vacation for freeloaders. The Atlanta Forum I did not get to experience too much because of the person I went to those shows with. In my opinion, consumer shows would be the most beneficial. You target the people you want to really do business with. Having drinks with webmasters and half the people at a trade show who usually don't do squat in porn in a waste. I consider those the "bro" and "big baller" shows.

I say target the consumers and if you know what you are doing, you really don't need many affiliates. Webmaster shows have become nothing but a popularity dick sucking contest and with the economy, not many go to them as much as they did.

If you are selling your brand "Erika", then yes, a public show is probably very good for you. AEE in fact is a great show for the performers to get exposure (the right kind) to their potential fan base, to grow a fan base, to make them more loyal. if it wasn't for some truly insane rules in Vegas, there would be a huge market for these stars to sell and autograph merchandise all day.

The problem is we are talking B2B here. You did spot some of the problem, people who show up to trade shows but don't do squat in the porn business, just came down for a party. Vegas adult webmaster show was terrible for that, probably 1/3 of the people attending bought badges just to get invites to the parties. Their only involvement in porn was the use of their right hands and kleenex.

It is the reasons why shows like Cybernet, Phoenix, etc all end up being more productive, becuase they aren't marketed to the same people, and most if not all the people you meet at the shows are actually in the business.

[bluemoney]

Originally Posted by AdorableAudrey

As an indie paysite owner I've felt a little out of place at the shows I've been to so far (Internext & Xbiz in Vegas), they definitely don't feel like they cater to small business owners like myself.

And that's too bad. I promote many Indies and would enjoy meeting them and hearing their take on the biz. I would also love the opportunity to shoot some fresh content with a solo girl I promote for about an hour or so. Exclusive content for an affiliate could go a long way in creating a good business relationship.

[tony404]

I think people also dont realize you really dont need to be face to face to do business anymore. When I was a headhunter I placed board room level executives never met anyone. I couldnt tell you that the ceo's who wrote the checks to us or the guys I placed looked like. When I was with a dotcom I did a deals with a large dotcoms and marketers never met anyone.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by tony404

I think people also dont realize you really dont need to be face to face to do business anymore. When I was a headhunter I placed board room level executives never met anyone. I couldnt tell you that the ceo's who wrote the checks to us or the guys I placed looked like. When I was with a dotcom I did a deals with a large dotcoms and marketers never met anyone.

The value of shows for me, in terms of doing new business, is those new contacts with people that I've never worked with before, that I'd never spoken with or often never even heard of before meeting them at a show. The shows just put everyone in the same place at the same time.

[EmporerEJ]

Well, I think if they want to have fans come, that's Ok. But they should have "Trade only" time, if that's what the show is about.
If we exhibit at a show, we are looking for both "customers." But, everyone knows you deal with things, and keep the both locked up on "Fan" days.

And the badges should be CLEARLY marked "Fan".
Charge the fans, cut the price on the exhibitors.
I donb't have a problem with AVN/XBiz, or whoever making a buck on the shows, but make it a REASONABLE buck.

And charging talent to be there? What kind of sense does that make? No Talent, no droolers.
Just make sure you have different days, different things. But all the CES Geeks in one place? It's a gold mine.....mine it.
It's good for the industry all around.
That's how the show got started, y'know?

I'm a classic example.....started out as a hybrid CES/AVN (Video store owner, worked in both industries)

[Hell Puppy]

Mike hits upon one of the key problems. And that is the agenda of the people producing the shows. Whether it be AVN, xbiz or whoever, they are doing it as a for profit venture. Any show is, but the difference here is they are using the long outdated exhibition/seminar model, which I think we've all pretty well established is broken.

The best shows right now are those that are actually put on for "business partners". The show itself, call it a summit or whatever, is not for profit, though they will try to at least break even or subsidize the hell out of the event with sponsorships or registration costs. But the underlying goal is to bring together business partners who are in a symbiotic relationship to learn and strategize how they can all grow together.

To put it another way, our shows are all about everyone trying to protect or expand their piece of the pie....and it's a shrinking pie. I'd be more interested in learning how to grow the pie. I dont mind sharing, I have no desire to be a monopoly, and I will help people if it helps me. Adult shows as they exist now do not foster this type of relationship at all...

[gonzo]

Theres that word again . . . "summit" .

I wonder way off somewhere if there is a bell being rung...

[tony404]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

Mike hits upon one of the key problems. And that is the agenda of the people producing the shows. Whether it be AVN, xbiz or whoever, they are doing it as a for profit venture. Any show is, but the difference here is they are using the long outdated exhibition/seminar model, which I think we've all pretty well established is broken.

The best shows right now are those that are actually put on for "business partners". The show itself, call it a summit or whatever, is not for profit, though they will try to at least break even or subsidize the hell out of the event with sponsorships or registration costs. But the underlying goal is to bring together business partners who are in a symbiotic relationship to learn and strategize how they can all grow together.

To put it another way, our shows are all about everyone trying to protect or expand their piece of the pie....and it's a shrinking pie. I'd be more interested in learning how to grow the pie. I dont mind sharing, I have no desire to be a monopoly, and I will help people if it helps me. Adult shows as they exist now do not foster this type of relationship at all...

good points, I think that will never happen because there are waaay too many agendas and way too many who couldnt make nickle in the real world and the thought this world is crumbling.Makes them do anything to save what they have. There is a real desperation in the air.

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by tony404

good points, I think that will never happen because there are waaay too many agendas and way too many who couldnt make nickle in the real world and the thought this world is crumbling.Makes them do anything to save what they have. There is a real desperation in the air.

Real desperation because there has been little change in the adult market in the past 30 years.

Film to Video (Big Jump in sales) 80's
Video to DVD and web in the 90's. (New sales channels for basically the same product)
The public is still just watching a video of porn on a screen.
80's- Theater, and then TV screen-
90's-00's- TV screen & Computer screen......(And now it lags, and is jumpy)

And they've finally figured it out.

Hence, they expect it for free. And some in the industry, are happy to oblige with Tube sites. (Which I don't care about)
But everyone else screams "The sky is falling" because the days of shooting fish in the barrel is over.

Boy, we couldn't see this one coming, like 10 years ago? When all the other "business models" in the non-adult industry also failed to monetize web traffic?

PLEASE. If you don't give the customer some kind of "value added" service, real or perceived, he eventually figures it out, and you've lost his attention, and his dollars.

Maybe there NEEDS to be "desperation in the air."

[tony404]

Originally Posted by EmporerEJ

Real desperation because there has been little change in the adult market in the past 30 years.

Film to Video (Big Jump in sales) 80's
Video to DVD and web in the 90's. (New sales channels for basically the same product)
The public is still just watching a video of porn on a screen.
80's- Theater, and then TV screen-
90's-00's- TV screen & Computer screen......(And now it lags, and is jumpy)

And they've finally figured it out.

Hence, they expect it for free. And some in the industry, are happy to oblige with Tube sites. (Which I don't care about)
But everyone else screams "The sky is falling" because the days of shooting fish in the barrel is over.

Boy, we couldn't see this one coming, like 10 years ago? When all the other "business models" in the non-adult industry also failed to monetize web traffic?

PLEASE. If you don't give the customer some kind of "value added" service, real or perceived, he eventually figures it out, and you've lost his attention, and his dollars.

Maybe there NEEDS to be "desperation in the air."

you have some good points but I think there is desperation when you have big companies giving away full scenes on the hope some will join after jerking off to their stuff for free.

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

Mike hits upon one of the key problems. And that is the agenda of the people producing the shows. Whether it be AVN, xbiz or whoever, they are doing it as a for profit venture. Any show is, but the difference here is they are using the long outdated exhibition/seminar model, which I think we've all pretty well established is broken.

The best shows right now are those that are actually put on for "business partners". The show itself, call it a summit or whatever, is not for profit, though they will try to at least break even or subsidize the hell out of the event with sponsorships or registration costs. But the underlying goal is to bring together business partners who are in a symbiotic relationship to learn and strategize how they can all grow together.

To put it another way, our shows are all about everyone trying to protect or expand their piece of the pie....and it's a shrinking pie. I'd be more interested in learning how to grow the pie. I dont mind sharing, I have no desire to be a monopoly, and I will help people if it helps me. Adult shows as they exist now do not foster this type of relationship at all...

Look, I appreciate your opinion, but I just can't agree. I've never heard of a trade show put on "Not for profit." Sounds more like you are having "a meeting." Or maybe a sewing group?
You could put your own show/summit, on maybe?

And hell yes, it's about a bigger piece of pie. And I DON'T agree with you on "Shrinking pie." Maybe from your seat?

The adult industry has STEADILY grown since the mid 80's when I started in in it?

And you want to know about something new...something that "grows the pie?"
What the hell have I been doing for the past 9 years?
I invented the Virtual Sex Machine, and created an enitrely NEW channel to RESELL the "Pie" (Content...new or old, is NEW to the VR market,) in.
Don't blame me if some people can't see it. "Others" seem to get it as we are now beginning to see "Knock offs," or put more kindly for the benefit of others here, "similar players in the VR field."

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by EmporerEJ

Look, I appreciate your opinion, but I just can't agree. I've never heard of a trade show put on "Not for profit." Sounds more like you are having "a meeting." Or maybe a sewing group?
You could put your own show/summit, on maybe?

And hell yes, it's about a bigger piece of pie. And I DON'T agree with you on "Shrinking pie." Maybe from your seat?

The adult industry has STEADILY grown since the mid 80's when I started in in it?

And you want to know about something new...something that "grows the pie?"
What the hell have I been doing for the past 9 years?
I invented the Virtual Sex Machine, and created an enitrely NEW channel to RESELL the "Pie" (Content...new or old, is NEW to the VR market,) in.
Don't blame me if some people can't see it. "Others" seem to get it as we are now beginning to see "Knock offs," or put more kindly for the benefit of others here, "similar players in the VR field."

I think you're missing my points here...

"Not for profit" on a show...of course the idea is to make money, but the money isn't coming from attendee badges, exhibitor fees, sponsorships, advertising, etc as is the typical model. What I'm referring to are things like the shows Oracle or SAP do.

They MAY or may not make a profit off the show itself, that's incidental. What they're looking to do is see all of their customers and business partners grow and thus buy more of their core product. They're in business to make money off their core products not shows.

As for the shrinking pie...anyone really think there's as much money coming into the adult web in 2009 as there was in say 2002? I think page views, users and every other metric are up....they're WAY up, but we're giving a lot away.

DEMAND for our product is high as ever. ACCESSIBILITY and ease of distribution, also better than it's ever been. People have privacy, convenience, easy of use, and heck with today's cable modem speeds quality of the streams is getting better all the time.

But for reasons we're all aware of, it's harder and harder to get a user to trust us with their credit card number. The people who should be our best customers, the guys who have disposable income and are free with their credit card get taught a lesson as soon as they happen across the wrong site. Unfortunately this doesn't take long.

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

I think you're missing my points here...

"Not for profit" on a show...of course the idea is to make money, but the money isn't coming from attendee badges, exhibitor fees, sponsorships, advertising, etc as is the typical model. What I'm referring to are things like the shows Oracle or SAP do.

They MAY or may not make a profit off the show itself, that's incidental. What they're looking to do is see all of their customers and business partners grow and thus buy more of their core product. They're in business to make money off their core products not shows.

As for the shrinking pie...anyone really think there's as much money coming into the adult web in 2009 as there was in say 2002? I think page views, users and every other metric are up....they're WAY up, but we're giving a lot away.

DEMAND for our product is high as ever. ACCESSIBILITY and ease of distribution, also better than it's ever been. People have privacy, convenience, easy of use, and heck with today's cable modem speeds quality of the streams is getting better all the time.

But for reasons we're all aware of, it's harder and harder to get a user to trust us with their credit card number. The people who should be our best customers, the guys who have disposable income and are free with their credit card get taught a lesson as soon as they happen across the wrong site. Unfortunately this doesn't take long.

Again...we'll have to agree to disagree on the show thing.
I think $200 entrance is too high, but i don't have a problem with some kind of "gate fee" to keep the squirrels out.

As for the industry....hey, the industry did it to itself.
Again, I refer to the article I wrote back in 2001, (And being the arrogant bastard I am, saying I told you so.)

AVN Article- ...Sleeping Sex Industry

And all those scam games, people played, hurt us all. Fortunately, we ship a durable good, with a signature, so we don't have those same kind of problems. Our customer feel a bit better knowing they'll get a box fro the UPS man, or they could do a charge back. We have no problem with that.

For the decent folk, like most here, I feel bad they have to put up with this crap. Many of the people here have been around for years, like me. For the scammers, I have NO pity. I hope they fry for what they've done to us all. (See the august talk back in XBiz (Print) magazine for my VERY open opinion on THAT.)

[MikeSouth]

Look Im not saying they shouldnt profit, they should...what I am saying is market your product to your target market stop trying to be everything to everyone...it doesnt work.

If you want to be a fan show dont rape your exhibitors, you need them to survive...as Adult Expo is finding out.

If you want to be a trade show keep the fans out, or at least limit it to those willing to make an effort to pretend to be legit....Those guys sometimes do get in the biz....I did.

BTW I like Cybernet Expo I think it is one of the better shows but I cant justify going to SFO for it

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by MikeSouth

Look Im not saying they shouldnt profit, they should...what I am saying is market your product to your target market stop trying to be everything to everyone...it doesnt work.

If you want to be a fan show dont rape your exhibitors, you need them to survive...as Adult Expo is finding out.

If you want to be a trade show keep the fans out, or at least limit it to those willing to make an effort to pretend to be legit....Those guys sometimes do get in the biz....I did.

BTW I like Cybernet Expo I think it is one of the better shows but I cant justify going to SFO for it

I'm with you on "Rape the exhibitors." Main reason we don't exhibit.
Charge us $3K, have to deal with the teamsters, who, I'm sorry, were downright rude, offensive, and abusive, and then, the crem d'la crem, don't allow us to demonstrate our product with adult content.
It was an ADULT show, and we couldn't run an adult video on the screen.
What a joke.

On the other hand...Canada LOVED us. Price was CHEAP, fans were all VERY polite, other exhibitors were VERY polite, and show managment was very accomodating.

No American cheese for my sandwich.......but hey, what can you do? When is Rome......

[RawAlex]

Just checked the AVN sites, nothing past this last show. Las Vegas is still 2009.

I don't remember if I mentioned, but I got hit up already about a month ago to buy a "cheaper" pre-registration badge for AEE. I would find it interesting that AEE is already taking registrations and yet the web show that runs at almost the same time is nowhere to be seen.

Perhaps AVN and XBiz has deep in negotiations right now. Secrets, you know?

[JFK]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Just checked the AVN sites, nothing past this last show. Las Vegas is still 2009.

I don't remember if I mentioned, but I got hit up already about a month ago to buy a "cheaper" pre-registration badge for AEE. I would find it interesting that AEE is already taking registrations and yet the web show that runs at almost the same time is nowhere to be seen.

Perhaps AVN and XBiz has deep in negotiations right now. Secrets, you know?

just an fyi, AEE is not run by AVN, its licensed out

[RawAlex]

Originally Posted by JFK

just an fyi, AEE is not run by AVN, its licensed out

Thus explaining the difference and why they can't seem to get A and B together in one place. Perhaps the people running AEE would like to run a webmaster show for the 2 days before AEE opens?

[tony404]

got life extension magazine today. they are having a 3 day conference in fl at the westin ft lauderdale room rates are $89 a night. That says it all. adult webmasters are the only ones to pay inflated hotel prices in the middle of summer in fl. lol

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by tony404

got life extension magazine today. they are having a 3 day conference in fl at the westin ft lauderdale room rates are $89 a night. That says it all. adult webmasters are the only ones to pay inflated hotel prices in the middle of summer in fl. lol

HEARD THAT!

So, what's the deal.....you buying an ice cube tray?

[RawAlex]

Originally Posted by tony404

got life extension magazine today. they are having a 3 day conference in fl at the westin ft lauderdale room rates are $89 a night. That says it all. adult webmasters are the only ones to pay inflated hotel prices in the middle of summer in fl. lol

I think in some ways it comes from a two-fold problem for adult conventions.

The first year in Florida, it wasn't specifically a "whole hotel" takeover, which lead to some situations, particuarly on the first and last day of the show. So one of the issues is that Internext is forced to pretty much assure the hotel of a complete sellout. So room rates are calculated to make sure that AVN isn't underwater even if only 75% of the rooms sell.

Now, as for comparing the westin to the diplomat, I just checked Expedia for rates (in canadian dollars) for next month for 5 days. Diplomat, cheap room is $301 a night, westin is $110. So on that scale, (almost 3 times) the room rates for Internext are actually in keeping with the relative room rates in Florida.

When Internext signed the long term agreements, they were selling out the show, offloading people to the hotel by the golf course, and even pointing people to cheaper properties in the area. The show was a massive oversold deal that had no chance of failure in the near future. However, the 2009 summer show was very lightly attended (you could book a standard room the morning of the show), and images from the show indicate that the crowd was very light. I remember when the showroom floor upstairs was filled, the pool bar was crowded, and basically the property was swarming with people. This last show honestly looked like less than half that crowd, and without a show floor, much of the game is given over to social rather than more organized events.

So the prices of the hotel rooms are in line, but perhaps at this point the property is well beyond what the vast majority of people are willing to pay. The Playahs (including the Iporn people, I gather) can afford to pay the price, but the average webmaster and small program owner will have a very hard time to justify paying out a couple of thousand dollars, only to end up in a place where they can't find anyone they really would like to meet, because there is no show floor, no real events, and just people wandering around in bathing suits getting drunk.

With AVN Chris out the door, perhaps someone can give this show (and vegas) a serious, sober second thought and come up with a show that is more conducive to getting business done.

[tony404]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

I think in some ways it comes from a two-fold problem for adult conventions.

The first year in Florida, it wasn't specifically a "whole hotel" takeover, which lead to some situations, particuarly on the first and last day of the show. So one of the issues is that Internext is forced to pretty much assure the hotel of a complete sellout. So room rates are calculated to make sure that AVN isn't underwater even if only 75% of the rooms sell.

Now, as for comparing the westin to the diplomat, I just checked Expedia for rates (in canadian dollars) for next month for 5 days. Diplomat, cheap room is $301 a night, westin is $110. So on that scale, (almost 3 times) the room rates for Internext are actually in keeping with the relative room rates in Florida.

When Internext signed the long term agreements, they were selling out the show, offloading people to the hotel by the golf course, and even pointing people to cheaper properties in the area. The show was a massive oversold deal that had no chance of failure in the near future. However, the 2009 summer show was very lightly attended (you could book a standard room the morning of the show), and images from the show indicate that the crowd was very light. I remember when the showroom floor upstairs was filled, the pool bar was crowded, and basically the property was swarming with people. This last show honestly looked like less than half that crowd, and without a show floor, much of the game is given over to social rather than more organized events. and as far as vegas I dont think it has really sunk in for them. Chris was talking how vegas will be the biggest show ever. its like wake up those days are over.

So the prices of the hotel rooms are in line, but perhaps at this point the property is well beyond what the vast majority of people are willing to pay. The Playahs (including the Iporn people, I gather) can afford to pay the price, but the average webmaster and small program owner will have a very hard time to justify paying out a couple of thousand dollars, only to end up in a place where they can't find anyone they really would like to meet, because there is no show floor, no real events, and just people wandering around in bathing suits getting drunk.

With AVN Chris out the door, perhaps someone can give this show (and vegas) a serious, sober second thought and come up with a show that is more conducive to getting business done.

Good points.Also why do they have to take over a whole hotel? Is it really necessary to have half naked models running around, like we dont look at this enough all day long. its like they all wanted to be rock stars and the shows are the excuse. It shouldnt be about being rockstars it should be about being business people. The shows are really like a shining example of whats wrong with adult. Its all on flash and the quick buck and being a pimp no substance or longterm viability.I read on the jungle someone saying vegas will be the biggest show ever its like wake the fuck up those days are over.

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by tony404

Good points.Also why do they have to take over a whole hotel? Is it really necessary to have half naked models running around, like we dont look at this enough all day long. its like they all wanted to be rock stars and the shows are the excuse. It shouldnt be about being rockstars it should be about being business people. The shows are really like a shining example of whats wrong with adult. Its all on flash and the quick buck and being a pimp no substance or longterm viability.I read on the jungle someone saying vegas will be the biggest show ever its like wake the fuck up those days are over.

Geeez.....let's not go all "doom & Gloom" here.....
I'm not staring at the bottom of the bottle.
They said the same bullshit in the late 80's after the meese commission. So please, don't be surprised when I don't start lamenting the failure of the adult industry.

I'm not saying there isn't going to be a weed out of the slackers......but sex isn't going anywhere. And selling it is only getting better, and more widespread.

Hell, I remember the days when we worried everyday the cops were gonna bust one of my stores for the "back room." They picked at random. Got a store about 3 miles down the road from me. Too close for comfort.

When was the last time they busted a video store?

[RawAlex]

Originally Posted by tony404

Good points.Also why do they have to take over a whole hotel? Is it really necessary to have half naked models running around, like we dont look at this enough all day long. its like they all wanted to be rock stars and the shows are the excuse. It shouldnt be about being rockstars it should be about being business people. The shows are really like a shining example of whats wrong with adult. Its all on flash and the quick buck and being a pimp no substance or longterm viability.I read on the jungle someone saying vegas will be the biggest show ever its like wake the fuck up those days are over.

Alas, one of the problems of these shows is that people apparently can't control themselves, and as a result, "public nudity" is a real issue. It does come a bit from the young guys, ton of money thing, it also comes from a number of people in the business who honestly couldn't get laid in a whore house with a fist full of hundreds.

More than anything, it's because the conventions stopped being conventions, and started being all about the parties, the drunken adventures, etc. The first few years of IA / Internext (florida and vegas) the program owners and principal players spend their days on the show floors, had dinner with a couple of friends, and attended the cocktails. By 2004 or so, the program owners were nowhere to be found, often partying all night and then disappearing all day, running their own parties offsite, many of them not even bothering to get show badges. The show floor in Vegas now is a joke, and in Florida, it is gone entirely. Based on the reports I got, it was almost useless in Florida this time to try to find many people before 3 or 4 in the afternoon. That isn't conducive to doing business.

I think it comes down to this: Few of the players really want to talk business with anyone except their bros, because they are using dishonest business methods, shaving, cross sales, spamming, dishonest advertising, and many, many other sneaking and shitty things to make a living, so they are working on the "down low" of porn marketing. They don't want to talk to anyone that might actually ask them what the fuck they are doing. So instead, they come to the shows, hide out with their bros, take lots of pictures, and act like they met everyone. It's PR at it's very worst.

AVN shows are like the Zoo at this point - both seriously lacking in webmasters, and seriously lacking in any true relationship to the adult industry.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

I think it comes down to this: Few of the players really want to talk business with anyone except their bros, because they are using dishonest business methods, shaving, cross sales, spamming, dishonest advertising, and many, many other sneaking and shitty things to make a living, so they are working on the "down low" of porn marketing. They don't want to talk to anyone that might actually ask them what the fuck they are doing. So instead, they come to the shows, hide out with their bros, take lots of pictures, and act like they met everyone. It's PR at it's very worst.

AVN shows are like the Zoo at this point - both seriously lacking in webmasters, and seriously lacking in any true relationship to the adult industry.

Alec.... Jay heres a void for both of you guys to step up to with your shows. Step up to the mike... Chris is off with SE Guru playing spin the needle.

Your turn on the mic.

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by tony404

got life extension magazine today. they are having a 3 day conference in fl at the westin ft lauderdale room rates are $89 a night. That says it all. adult webmasters are the only ones to pay inflated hotel prices in the middle of summer in fl. lol

who is sponsoring the urinals?

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

who is sponsoring the urinals?

Whos spondoring the toilet paper in the rooms so we can get ass cancer from the ink?

[miz_wright]

Believe it or not, I have breakfast meetings at every show. I tend to set up my major meetings between 8 am and 11 am with add-ons throughout the rest of the day.

Sure there are people who will treat it like a vacation or not get up til 3 pm or act like "ballas" -- I don't think the problem is endemic to the shows - AVN and xBiz have provided what has been asked for (who's heard all the bitching when there aren't "enough" parties? *raises hand*). I think the biggest problem is that people stopped being as hungry, and the show putter-onners are convenient scapegoats.

There's still a shit tonne of business to be done at a show, if one is hungry and looks for it.

[RawAlex]

Originally Posted by LizAEBN

There's still a shit tonne of business to be done at a show, if one is hungry and looks for it.

The same can be said for any situation, online, on the phone, whatever.

However, shows are suppose to (IMHO) serve up that business pretty much right in front of you, and take steps to make it possible for you to actually do business. Cybernet in it's current form does a good job with things like Corridor Cruising, and other events have speed networking or other events that promote meeting new people.

What really always makes me laugh is after a show, you say "Gee, I never saw (insert playah name here) at the show", and then a few days later they are on the Zoo posting all their "show" pictures. When you look at the pictures, you realize they really weren't at the show, they just happened to be in the same city (and same hotel) as the show at the same time. Most of their pics are private parties, limo shots, nightclub VIPs, drunken shots by the pool at 4am, etc. Most of them never have a single actual "at the show" picture, except perhaps poolside in Florida grabbing some chick's ass.

So even if you wanted to do business with these people, meet them, discussion whatever, it is impossible. At best, you get a "rep" that has no authority to do anything, often has little true knowledge of the product, and certainly can't trade traffic, links, or whatever of their own accord. I would have better luck reaching the "playah" via email or ICQ than I would being at the show.

In the end, the shows fail because parties are nice, but they are hard to bottom line justify.