Fuck You, George

PornoDoggy · 07-03-2005

IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. --Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refuted his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred. to disavow these usurpations, which would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. --And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

--John Hancock

New Hampshire:
Josiah Bartlett, William Whipple, Matthew Thornton

Massachusetts:
John Hancock, Samuel Adams, John Adams, Robert Treat Paine, Elbridge Gerry

Rhode Island:
Stephen Hopkins, William Ellery

Connecticut:
Roger Sherman, Samuel Huntington, William Williams, Oliver Wolcott

New York:
William Floyd, Philip Livingston, Francis Lewis, Lewis Morris

New Jersey:
Richard Stockton, John Witherspoon, Francis Hopkinson, John Hart, Abraham Clark

Pennsylvania:
Robert Morris, Benjamin Rush, Benjamin Franklin, John Morton, George Clymer, James Smith, George Taylor, James Wilson, George Ross

Delaware:
Caesar Rodney, George Read, Thomas McKean

Maryland:
Samuel Chase, William Paca, Thomas Stone, Charles Carroll of Carrollton

Virginia:
George Wythe, Richard Henry Lee, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Harrison, Thomas Nelson, Jr., Francis Lightfoot Lee, Carter Braxton

North Carolina:
William Hooper, Joseph Hewes, John Penn

South Carolina:
Edward Rutledge, Thomas Heyward, Jr., Thomas Lynch, Jr., Arthur Middleton

Georgia:
Button Gwinnett, Lyman Hall, George Walton

mikeyddddd · 07-03-2005

Almighty Colin · 07-04-2005

Red · 07-04-2005

Happy Independence Day

grimm · 07-04-2005

land that I love... stand beside her.. and guide her...

Rove Talked But Did Not Tattle, Attorney Says
The Bush advisor spoke with a Time reporter days before a CIA
operative was outed.

By Richard B. Schmitt, Times Staff Writer

WASHINGTON — Karl Rove, one of President Bush's closest advisors,
spoke with a Time magazine reporter days before the name of a CIA
operative surfaced in the press, but did not leak the confidential
information, a lawyer for Rove said Saturday in a new admission in the
case.

Rove spoke to Time reporter Matthew Cooper in July 2003, before a
syndicated column revealed the identity of operative Valerie Plame,
the wife of Bush administration critic and former U.S. Ambassador
Joseph C. Wilson IV.

Cooper is one of two reporters who has been held in contempt of court
for not cooperating with a federal investigation into who leaked
Plame's identity. Although Wilson once said he suspected that Rove had
played a role in destroying his wife's CIA cover, the White House
dismissed questions about Rove's actions as "totally ridiculous."

In confirming the conversation between Rove and Cooper, Rove's
attorney, Robert Luskin, emphasized that the presidential advisor did
not reveal any secrets. But the disclosure raised new questions about
Rove and the precise role of the White House in the apparent national
security breach as Cooper and another reporter, Judith Miller of the
New York Times, faced imminent jail terms.

Time Inc., under pressure from a federal judge and over Cooper's
objections, turned over e-mail records and other internal documents to
a special prosecutor Friday, identifying sources that Cooper used to
report and write on the politically charged case. A Time spokeswoman
declined to say Saturday whether Rove was among sources mentioned in
the documents.

Cooper and Miller could be jailed as soon as Wednesday for refusing to
cooperate in the investigation. Time, which was separately held in
contempt in the case, said that it hoped its cooperation meant that
Cooper would not be incarcerated.

Rove, Bush's deputy chief of staff and longtime political strategist,
testified before a grand jury investigating the Plame case on three
occasions. His latest appearance was in October 2004, about the same
time the prosecutor investigating the case said his probe was complete
with the exception of testimony from Cooper and Miller.

Special prosecutor Patrick J. Fitzgerald is investigating the alleged
outing of Plame by Robert Novak, a columnist and CNN pundit, on July
14, 2003. Some suspect that the White House leaked her name in
retaliation for a July 6, 2003, op-ed piece in the New York Times
written by Wilson, her husband. He accused the administration of
twisting intelligence to justify the invasion of Iraq.

Fitzgerald interviewed many other White House officials and
journalists, including Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney. Although
Novak was the first to publish Plame's name, Fitzgerald has indicated
that whoever leaked the information to Novak also might have revealed
her identity to other journalists. That could constitute separate
violations of a federal law that protects the identity of undercover
CIA personnel.

Prosecutions are rare, however, because they require showing that the
leak was intentionally disclosed and that the person leaking the
information knew the government was trying to conceal it.

Fitzgerald asked Cooper and Time for documents and testimony relating
to conversations Cooper had with official sources about Wilson, Plame
or her ties to the CIA in the period before the publication of Novak's
column. Cooper wrote about the case on Time's website after the Novak
column appeared.

Luskin, Rove's attorney, acknowledged in an interview Saturday that
Cooper and Rove had spoken days before Novak's column, in a
conversation that was initiated by Cooper.

"What I can tell you is that Cooper called Rove during that week
between the Wilson article and the Novak article, but that Karl
absolutely did not identify Valerie Plame," Luskin said. "He did not
disclose any confidential information about anybody to Cooper or to
anybody else."

Luskin said he would not "characterize the substance of the
conversation," which was covered in the testimony Rove provided to the
grand jury investigating the leak. "The folks in Fitzgerald's office
have asked us not to talk about what Karl has had to say," Luskin
said.

Luskin said Rove had been assured by prosecutors that he was not a
target of the investigation. "We were advised recently that his status
has not changed," he added.

"It is certainly my understanding that Karl has testified absolutely
truthfully about all his conversations about everybody that he has
been asked about during that week," Luskin added. "Nobody has
suggested to us ever that they think that there are any problems about
whether they think he is being candid."

But Newsweek magazine reported on its website Saturday that Rove was
one of Cooper's sources identified in notes that Time turned over to
Fitzgerald. And separately, MSNBC political analyst Lawrence O'Donnell
said in a taped TV program that he had information indicating Rove was
one of Cooper's sources. O'Donnell's comments were made in a segment
of "The McLaughlin Group" that was set to air in Los Angeles on PBS
Saturday night.

Cooper's lawyer, Richard Sauber, declined to discuss Rove's role in
Cooper's work, saying in response to an e-mail message, "We're not
going to discuss one way or another what the [documents turned over by
Time] say."

In court papers filed Friday arguing against his possible confinement,
Cooper's lawyers said if he were to break promises of confidentiality,
"his ability to continue as an effective reporter would be seriously
jeopardized."

In letters to the court accompanying his plea, fellow journalists
discussed this principle.

"Journalists must honor their promises which protect the bad along
with the good," said Margaret Carlson, a Time columnist and colleague
of Cooper. "We can't separate them like the darks and the whites in
the laundry."

grimm · 07-04-2005

on this celebration of our country's status and history, Voltaire might say

"Ordinarily there is no comparison between the crimes of the great who
are always ambitious, and the crimes of the people who always want, and
can want only liberty and equality. These two sentiments, Liberty and
Equality, do not lead direct to calumny, rapine, assassination,
poisoning, the devastation of one's neighbours' lands, etc.; but
ambitious might and the mania for power plunge into all these crimes
whatever be the time, whatever be the place."

ThrobX · 07-04-2005

Quote:

Originally posted by grimm@Jul 4 2005, 10:47 AM
Rove Talked But Did Not Tattle, Attorney Says
The Bush advisor spoke with a Time reporter days before a CIA
operative was outed.

Plausible deniability. What a shocker. <_<

PornoDoggy · 07-04-2005

Grandma's got her new dress on
There's fresh flower's on grandpa's grave
And junior smells of aftershave
Oh boy, hey hey
It's a national holiday

Everything's ready for the big parade
The mayor's got his place in the shade
But we can't wait 'til the sun goes down
To lie on a hill at the edge of town
While a presidential proclamation
Is blasting out across the nation
And Mad Dog and his band of jerks
Are lighting off the fireworks
Oh boy, hey hey
It's a national holiday

So let's all sing the national anthem
Free the hostages, pay the ransom
Raise the flag, lower the taxes
Band the bomb and bury the hatchet

The chiefs of staff called a session
Called for an end to armed aggression
They're easing up on covert actions
Appeasing all opposing faction
They communicated with the communists
Pacified the pacifists
Stopped all pain, stopped all sorrow
Real life shall resume tomorrow
Oh boy, hey hey
It's a national holiday

Copyright 1989 by Mambadadi Music, I.R.S. Music, Inc., BMI

aeon · 07-04-2005

Happy 4th!

Defiant · 07-04-2005

Quote:

Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Jul 3 2005, 11:17 AM
... That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness...

We are getting there again, where such actions may be neccessary to re-instate our Republic.

"Those who are willing to sacrifice freedoms for security deserve, and shall have, neither."
- Ben Franklin

"When the government fears the people, there is liberty; When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."
- Thomas Jefferson

Isn't the current government requiring us to sacrifice freedoms for "security"?
Do you think the current government fears the people of America?
How afraid of the current government are YOU?

PornoDoggy · 07-04-2005

Quote:

We are getting there again, where such actions may be necessary to re-instate our Republic.

Bullshit. If you are talking about action outside the normal participation in public affairs - I say bullshit.

There are lots of things going on that I don't care for. I'm not particularly overwhelmed with traditional Republican values (as exemplified by the Supreme Court decision allowing a government entity to seize private property and turn it over for commercial development). The ideology of the neo-cons and the Republicangelicals is completely repugnant to me.

But their time will pass. It always has before.

They are not going to be able to maintain the coalition that's elected Bush twice for too awful long. Shit, Bush has got a real problem on his hands just with the nomination of a Supreme Court justice - and the Democrats are barely relevant to the problem. Pick one the Republicangelicals support, and he could drive a lot of the Brooks Brothers/Armani crowd into supporting a moderate Democrat. Pick a nominee that the Pharisees don't feel meets the appropriate standards of faithfulness and piety, and it will take more than making homasexshuals the new niggers to win.

So leave the talk of the need for revolution to the wackos - just need to stay active, be patient, and the pendulum will swing back again.

aeon · 07-04-2005

Quote:

Originally posted by PornoDoggy+Jul 4 2005, 07:23 PM-->
QUOTE (PornoDoggy @ Jul 4 2005, 07:23 PM)
Bullshit. If you are talking about action outside the normal participation in public affairs - I say bullshit..[/b]

Look at PD - getting all feisty...

07-03-2005	#1
PornoDoggy Cramming 3 people in a Room to Attend Show Want to see your own Advertising Here! Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Amid the Cornfields of Illinois Posts: 5,366	IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776 The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. --Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world. He has refuted his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good. He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them. He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only. He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures. He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people. He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within. He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands. He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers. He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries. He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance. He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures. He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power. He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation: For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us: For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States: For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world: For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent: For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury: For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences: For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments: For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever. He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us. He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people. He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation. He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands. He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions. In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people. Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred. to disavow these usurpations, which would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends. We, therefore, the Representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. --And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor. --John Hancock New Hampshire: Josiah Bartlett, William Whipple, Matthew Thornton Massachusetts: John Hancock, Samuel Adams, John Adams, Robert Treat Paine, Elbridge Gerry Rhode Island: Stephen Hopkins, William Ellery Connecticut: Roger Sherman, Samuel Huntington, William Williams, Oliver Wolcott New York: William Floyd, Philip Livingston, Francis Lewis, Lewis Morris New Jersey: Richard Stockton, John Witherspoon, Francis Hopkinson, John Hart, Abraham Clark Pennsylvania: Robert Morris, Benjamin Rush, Benjamin Franklin, John Morton, George Clymer, James Smith, George Taylor, James Wilson, George Ross Delaware: Caesar Rodney, George Read, Thomas McKean Maryland: Samuel Chase, William Paca, Thomas Stone, Charles Carroll of Carrollton Virginia: George Wythe, Richard Henry Lee, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Harrison, Thomas Nelson, Jr., Francis Lightfoot Lee, Carter Braxton North Carolina: William Hooper, Joseph Hewes, John Penn South Carolina: Edward Rutledge, Thomas Heyward, Jr., Thomas Lynch, Jr., Arthur Middleton Georgia: Button Gwinnett, Lyman Hall, George Walton __________________ SEX STORY TEXT Exotic Material for Adult Websites Available for part time (project or ongoing) work ...

07-04-2005	#3
Almighty Colin Members Want to see your own Advertising Here! Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,059	__________________ Almighty Content. Your one stop for live content. Secret Friends, LATINA Secret Friends , My Cam Friends

07-04-2005	#4
Red Dreaming of a Cowboy Hat like Max Hardcore Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,812	Happy Independence Day __________________

07-04-2005	#5
grimm Cramming 3 people in a Room to Attend Show Stop Lurking and start posting! Register now! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 5,306	land that I love... stand beside her.. and guide her... Rove Talked But Did Not Tattle, Attorney Says The Bush advisor spoke with a Time reporter days before a CIA operative was outed. By Richard B. Schmitt, Times Staff Writer WASHINGTON — Karl Rove, one of President Bush's closest advisors, spoke with a Time magazine reporter days before the name of a CIA operative surfaced in the press, but did not leak the confidential information, a lawyer for Rove said Saturday in a new admission in the case. Rove spoke to Time reporter Matthew Cooper in July 2003, before a syndicated column revealed the identity of operative Valerie Plame, the wife of Bush administration critic and former U.S. Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV. Cooper is one of two reporters who has been held in contempt of court for not cooperating with a federal investigation into who leaked Plame's identity. Although Wilson once said he suspected that Rove had played a role in destroying his wife's CIA cover, the White House dismissed questions about Rove's actions as "totally ridiculous." In confirming the conversation between Rove and Cooper, Rove's attorney, Robert Luskin, emphasized that the presidential advisor did not reveal any secrets. But the disclosure raised new questions about Rove and the precise role of the White House in the apparent national security breach as Cooper and another reporter, Judith Miller of the New York Times, faced imminent jail terms. Time Inc., under pressure from a federal judge and over Cooper's objections, turned over e-mail records and other internal documents to a special prosecutor Friday, identifying sources that Cooper used to report and write on the politically charged case. A Time spokeswoman declined to say Saturday whether Rove was among sources mentioned in the documents. Cooper and Miller could be jailed as soon as Wednesday for refusing to cooperate in the investigation. Time, which was separately held in contempt in the case, said that it hoped its cooperation meant that Cooper would not be incarcerated. Rove, Bush's deputy chief of staff and longtime political strategist, testified before a grand jury investigating the Plame case on three occasions. His latest appearance was in October 2004, about the same time the prosecutor investigating the case said his probe was complete with the exception of testimony from Cooper and Miller. Special prosecutor Patrick J. Fitzgerald is investigating the alleged outing of Plame by Robert Novak, a columnist and CNN pundit, on July 14, 2003. Some suspect that the White House leaked her name in retaliation for a July 6, 2003, op-ed piece in the New York Times written by Wilson, her husband. He accused the administration of twisting intelligence to justify the invasion of Iraq. Fitzgerald interviewed many other White House officials and journalists, including Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney. Although Novak was the first to publish Plame's name, Fitzgerald has indicated that whoever leaked the information to Novak also might have revealed her identity to other journalists. That could constitute separate violations of a federal law that protects the identity of undercover CIA personnel. Prosecutions are rare, however, because they require showing that the leak was intentionally disclosed and that the person leaking the information knew the government was trying to conceal it. Fitzgerald asked Cooper and Time for documents and testimony relating to conversations Cooper had with official sources about Wilson, Plame or her ties to the CIA in the period before the publication of Novak's column. Cooper wrote about the case on Time's website after the Novak column appeared. Luskin, Rove's attorney, acknowledged in an interview Saturday that Cooper and Rove had spoken days before Novak's column, in a conversation that was initiated by Cooper. "What I can tell you is that Cooper called Rove during that week between the Wilson article and the Novak article, but that Karl absolutely did not identify Valerie Plame," Luskin said. "He did not disclose any confidential information about anybody to Cooper or to anybody else." Luskin said he would not "characterize the substance of the conversation," which was covered in the testimony Rove provided to the grand jury investigating the leak. "The folks in Fitzgerald's office have asked us not to talk about what Karl has had to say," Luskin said. Luskin said Rove had been assured by prosecutors that he was not a target of the investigation. "We were advised recently that his status has not changed," he added. "It is certainly my understanding that Karl has testified absolutely truthfully about all his conversations about everybody that he has been asked about during that week," Luskin added. "Nobody has suggested to us ever that they think that there are any problems about whether they think he is being candid." But Newsweek magazine reported on its website Saturday that Rove was one of Cooper's sources identified in notes that Time turned over to Fitzgerald. And separately, MSNBC political analyst Lawrence O'Donnell said in a taped TV program that he had information indicating Rove was one of Cooper's sources. O'Donnell's comments were made in a segment of "The McLaughlin Group" that was set to air in Los Angeles on PBS Saturday night. Cooper's lawyer, Richard Sauber, declined to discuss Rove's role in Cooper's work, saying in response to an e-mail message, "We're not going to discuss one way or another what the [documents turned over by Time] say." In court papers filed Friday arguing against his possible confinement, Cooper's lawyers said if he were to break promises of confidentiality, "his ability to continue as an effective reporter would be seriously jeopardized." In letters to the court accompanying his plea, fellow journalists discussed this principle. "Journalists must honor their promises which protect the bad along with the good," said Margaret Carlson, a Time columnist and colleague of Cooper. "We can't separate them like the darks and the whites in the laundry." __________________ Think horses, not zebras.

07-04-2005	#6
grimm Cramming 3 people in a Room to Attend Show Stop Lurking and start posting! Register now! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 5,306	on this celebration of our country's status and history, Voltaire might say "Ordinarily there is no comparison between the crimes of the great who are always ambitious, and the crimes of the people who always want, and can want only liberty and equality. These two sentiments, Liberty and Equality, do not lead direct to calumny, rapine, assassination, poisoning, the devastation of one's neighbours' lands, etc.; but ambitious might and the mania for power plunge into all these crimes whatever be the time, whatever be the place." __________________ Think horses, not zebras.

07-03-2005	#2
mikeyddddd I've got the time, Honey Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Holiday Inn - but it does not work as advertised. I should have saved on my auto insurance. Posts: 32

07-04-2005	#9
aeon Banned Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 906	Happy 4th!