Morals and this industry

[MorganGrayson]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

Amen Brother Anthony..

Everyone gets chances to make a success of their life , many people see the chance , the great seperator is few have the balls to take the chance , and later when they realise the mistake they made they come up with an excuse to portray themselves as "nice / kind /considerate",to justify what they already know.That they are failures.

Just a simple: this is true.

[selena]

When it's all said and done, no matter how much I'd like to think differently, I would have probably went for the cash.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by selena

When it's all said and done, no matter how much I'd like to think differently, I would have probably went for the cash.

Why the fuck would you want to "how much I'd like to think differently"...


Jesus...thats preparing excuses to fail...

[selena]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

Why the fuck would you want to "how much I'd like to think differently"...


Jesus...thats preparing excuses to fail...

Well, it's more PC in my own mind to think that perhaps I wouldn't take actions that I am very capable of taking, I suppose.

You ever read Gone With the Wind?

I'm kind of like one part in it, where it goes on about how Scarlett wants the accolades and such for being a lady without having to change her knave soul.

I'd like to be thought of as kind and nice and those things.

But I'm not those things, and I don't foresee a change, really.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by selena

Well, it's more PC in my own mind to think that perhaps I wouldn't take actions that I am very capable of taking, I suppose.

You ever read Gone With the Wind?

I'm kind of like one part in it, where it goes on about how Scarlett wants the accolades and such for being a lady without having to change her knave soul.

I'd like to be thought of as kind and nice and those things.

But I'm not those things, and I don't foresee a change, really.

Why the fuck do you want to be thought of as "nice"?

Have you been programmed to lose?

[Sin]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

Why the fuck do you want to be thought of as "nice"?

Have you been programmed to lose?

I've had it as my life goal for a few years now to be thought of as "formidable"

[selena]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

Why the fuck do you want to be thought of as "nice"?

Have you been programmed to lose?

~considers~

Hmmm.

I will have to think on that for a minute or two.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

Why the fuck do you want to be thought of as "nice"?

Have you been programmed to lose?

OH MY FAWKING GAWD, NOT FUCKING AGAIN!!!

PLEASE LEAVE 2000 BACK WHERE IT BELONGS, HISTORY

It's like deja vu. I've heard these words before.

[selena]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

Why the fuck do you want to be thought of as "nice"?

Have you been programmed to lose?

Because it's easier to get what I want that way, I think is the reason.

Without going in to analysis over it, I would say that is likely the answer.

[Sin]

Originally Posted by selena

I'd like to be thought of as kind and nice and those things.

But I'm not those things, and I don't foresee a change, really.

Aha, that's the answer there, in the 2nd line.

It's good to be "thought of" as nice, when you're not actually nice.

[selena]

Originally Posted by Sin

Aha, that's the answer there, in the 2nd line.

It's good to be "thought of" as nice, when you're not actually nice.

Precisley.

I don't want to be nice, I don't have the luxury of that.

Reality vs illusion

[MorganGrayson]

Originally Posted by selena

I'd like to be thought of as kind and nice and those things.

I wanted the name "Morgan Grayson," which isn't my own, to be associated with being "kind and nice," too.

Unfortunately, it was a "nice kind of idiot" that evolved.

"Certain people" (who are currently doing "The Highlander") attempted to explain to me that "nice" meant "weak" in this world. Well, they were right. Very, very right.

Back in the day, I owned a pretty little link site...and I never one time asked the owner of a successful link site how to run the damned thing to make MONEY. It wasn't that I didn't know any. I knew a ton of them. First real name basis and everything. I got a few tidbits of advice, but nothing like what I would have gotten if I'd overcome my "you don't take advantage of friends by asking them questions" bullshit and drained their brains.

I'm currently building another linksite and have the owner of a very successful, money making linksite on speed dial. Am I using him? Sure. Is he using me right back? Of course. What's he getting? I'm funny and fun to yack at and I break up his day. And, by teaching me, he learns, too. It's a nice symbiotic relationship. (The guy is an absolute doll and makes me long for my phone sex days, frankly.)

Back in the day I got invaluable advice on many things that I didn't follow. I can list "reasons," and "excuses" but it all boils down to one word. "Failure."

[Anthony]

Ryan,

I am the nice one of the dynamic duo. Let me break it down to you.

Look at all the data on successful people.

I bet you don't see nice/kind/considerate anywhere in their bio.

Nick used to call it the quickening back in the day. It's true, chop the fuckers head off, or you get yours chopped off.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Ryan,

I am the nice one of the dynamic duo. Let me break it down to you.

Look at all the data on successful people.

I bet you don't see nice/kind/considerate anywhere in their bio.

Nick used to call it the quickening back in the day. It's true, chop the fuckers head off, or you get yours chopped off.

( best Sean Connery accent..)

You have learned well Highlander....


;-)))

[Sin]

Oh and if you've learned that I'm an idiot, I do hope you'll show me where...

I quite look up to you, Nick.

[Sin]

You're intelligent, quick of wit, you cause others to question themselves often (something that too few people do on their own, so its good there's people like you out there) and you're willing to share tidbits of knowledge with the people who are smart enough to recognize them for what they are.

And telling me not to respect you won't work.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by Sin

You're intelligent, quick of wit, you cause others to question themselves often (something that too few people do on their own, so its good there's people like you out there) and you're willing to share tidbits of knowledge with the people who are smart enough to recognize them for what they are.

And telling me not to respect you won't work.

Jesus if a few words on a message board can earn your respect...damn!!!!

Anthony knows what I'm thinking....lol

;-))

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

Jesus if a few words on a message board can earn your respect...damn!!!!

Anthony knows what I'm thinking....lol

;-))

Broken Jaw?

aaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahaahahahaha

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Broken Jaw?

aaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahaahahahaha

indeed!

[Sin]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

Jesus if a few words on a message board can earn your respect...damn!!!!

Anthony knows what I'm thinking....lol

;-))

Not fully, but enough that I'd consider leaving my bedroom & venturing over to Van to find out more.

I prefer not to associate with most people out there, most people aren't worth the time of day. (Keep in mind I live on the island)

[Vick]

Don't need to and haven't read more than the first 4-5 posts in this thread

Serge gave amazing advice

Nick has long said we all have the morals we can afford

Put the two together and make the most $ you can


If need be ask yourself who's Xmas is more important, your's and your families or some clients who you have no ties to?

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by Vick

If need be ask yourself who's Xmas is more important, your's and your families or some clients who you have no ties to?

BINGO!!!

Again sage advice from Serge "Are they your friend? Are they your family? No? Then fuck them"

[Vick]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

BINGO!!!

Again sage advice from Serge "Are they your friend? Are they your family? No? Then fuck them"

In fact now that I think about it if we were close friends Ryan I'll be pissed and tell you that you are a fucking wanker for putting some nonsense before your own well being (and your families Xmas)

The people you do business with are still going to be there

How often do some rubes come along? Just lead them right, cash the checks and say next and what can I build, do for you next?

[Winetalk.com]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

BINGO!!!

Again sage advice from Serge "Are they your friend? Are they your family? No? Then fuck them"

wiser Serge likes to add a small correction:

"Are they your friend? Are they your IMMEDIATE family*? No? Then fuck them and fuck them hard."

* - wife/husband/children

[MorganGrayson]

Originally Posted by Winetalk.com

wiser Serge likes to add a small correction:

"Are they your friend? Are they your IMMEDIATE family*? No? Then fuck them and fuck them hard."

* - wife/husband/children

"Men who know how to use asterisks do it better."

[Anthony]

"Focker, Did I not fully explain the Circle of Trust?!"

[RyanLanane]

Some interesting posts. To be clear the situations were things like someone who wanted SEO and was willing to pay me $25 per hour for it. I told them I was knowledgable about it but didn't have a great deal of experience instead of saying "I know what I'm doing" and doing what I do know about SEO (very little, lol) for them... This lead to me being overly honest about my lack of knowledge.

The reason I did that is I have always thought about the clients I would lose in the future if I just plain and simple took the guy for 80 hours and did very little for him. If he happens to be the wrong person my name is out there as a blatant scammer in a matter of two weeks noone will do biz with me.

As far as how bad the X-Mas is... My mortgage payment is behind, bills are behind, and I an't get 'as nice' of presents as I would like to... but there will of course be a X-Mas for my daughter none the less. This is the first X-Mas in my life I have felt like this and I am about ready to just go out looking for some sucker to offer them the world and cash a quick check.

I understand what Nick is saying... my only argument against that is cut throat business is different then directly lying (and ripping off) customers. I guess in a sense it isn't ... Odd I give a shit as frustrated as I wake up every day lately...

[Dravyk]

Originally Posted by RyanLanane

Some interesting posts. To be clear the situations were ...

Proximity to Nick must continue to rub off on me, because I stopped reading the post above right there where I cut it off.

Why? Because anything that was said after that was all excuses. Again, I say that without having read it. Also, I don't need anyone telling me I was right.

[sarettah]

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

[Sin]

Ryan you could've learned as you went however. Life is progressive.

[Sin]

Shit for $25 an hour, I definitely would've learned...

Don't underestimate yourself, you'll lose out if you look at yourself now and think "This is all I have to offer"

[Newton]

Ryan .. no fucker is going to put food on your table for your family; you need to make that happen. In order it goes Family, Friends, People who owe you money

[Sin]

Its amazing how this board works, you think you've read the thread, the someone like Sudden will quote something that you completely missed so you have to go back & re-read the thread until you find it, lol

[Osiris]

I think in Ryans situation I would have done the honest thing. Why, because when it comes to business where you make a living providing a service, such as SEO and/or design you have to. If you don't, word DOES get around and people don't do business with you anymore. No business equals no money, period. I'd rather be honest and have some money, than be dishonest and have no money at all coming in.

Would you pay someone for SEO or design if you knew they had a reputation for being dishonest? My guess is you wouldn't.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by Osiris

I think in Ryans situation I would have done the honest thing. Why, because when it comes to business where you make a living providing a service, such as SEO and/or design you have to. If you don't, word DOES get around and people don't do business with you anymore. No business equals no money, period. I'd rather be honest and have some money, than be dishonest and have no money at all coming in.

Would you pay someone for SEO or design if you knew they had a reputation for being dishonest? My guess is you wouldn't.

I would never pay anyone for SEO...

Anyone worth his salt should be making so much money himself freelance he doesn't need to hire himself out at $25.



LOL

[sudden]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

I would never pay anyone for SEO...

Anyone worth his salt should be making so much money himself freelance he doesn't need to hire himself out at $25.

LOL

I'll hire my SEO skills out to you for $25.











(It'll only get you a minute or two worth of work, but... ))

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by sudden

I'll hire my SEO skills out to you for $25.

(It'll only get you a minute or two worth of work, but... ))

For you..it might be money well spent.. ;-)))

I'll buy you a good dinner and pick yr mind instead ;-))

[Osiris]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

I would never pay anyone for SEO...

Anyone worth his salt should be making so much money himself freelance he doesn't need to hire himself out at $25.



LOL

True, the ones that know how to work the engines shouldn't have to hire themselves out, and they wouldn't be having a bad christmas either.

[Vick]

Ryan - you could have been learning on their dime

What more could you ask for?

SEO opt, read some, reverse engineer a little and then tell them it takes a few weeks to see the results
Nothing could have been worse than the so called SEO Guru's that made the rounds in years past
They (he) really couldn't produce results so they (he) went around selling himself as an expert


You know years back Billy Idol decided he wanted to become an Idol and did so by naming himself one (well that, some talent and a cool guitar player named Steve Stephens)

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by Vick

Ryan - you could have been learning on their dime

What more could you ask for?

SEO opt, read some, reverse engineer a little and then tell them it takes a few weeks to see the results
Nothing could have been worse than the so called SEO Guru's that made the rounds in years past
They (he) really couldn't produce results so they (he) went around selling himself as an expert


You know years back Billy Idol decided he wanted to become an Idol and did so by naming himself one (well that, some talent and a cool guitar player named Steve Stephens)

And SEGuru did the same!!!!!

Well minus any talent and totally lacking anything cool

ahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

[Red]

Originally Posted by Vick

Ryan - you could have been learning on their dime

What more could you ask for?

Absolutely.

Ryan,
There's nothing wrong with making a moral decision, but I think your problem was one of ethics, not morality. IMHO, you have a moral imperative to care for your for your family. You said that the mortgage and bills were piling up. There would have been nothing immoral about taking the job. Especially since you know a little and you could have learned while you earned.

[sarettah]

I have done plenty of projects on a learn as you go basis. I usually try to keep some track of how much time I did that was not actual design or code work and I just don't charge for that time.

No moral or ethical dilemna there imho.

[Dravyk]

Originally Posted by Red

There's nothing wrong with making a moral decision.

Exactly! It's having a conscience that's the problem!

[PornoDoggy]

Pardon me.

I don't see a single shred of evidence that "morality" is an issue here. That being the case, negotiating the semantic difference between morals and ethics is hardly worth exploring.

You got offered some work. You turned it down, and are now crying in your beer (domestic - apparently your Christmas is so bad you can't afford an import).

You did so for one of two reasons, as best as I can tell - you either didn't feel you could do the work, or you needed an excuse to cry in your beer while wearing your "E" (for Ethical, of course) t-shirt.

If you turned it down because you weren't able to meet their requirements or expectations, you were just using common sense, IMHO, particularly if you are starting up a consulting business.

If you did not realize that you could earn as you learn, as many have suggested, then ... well, whatever.

This thread works well for the holiday season. The rabbis and bishops have made pronouncements from on high, and the acolytes have cried hosanna in the appropriate places. It has played out like watching “Miracle on 34th Street” - it's an amazing film for those who haven't seen it before, and oddly comforting for those who've seen it many times before.

[RyanLanane]

Learned alot by making this post, that much I can definitely say. I would also have to say it was one of the most 'hopping' topics brought to this baord in a while...

I will admit it will alter the way I handle things a little bit but for the main part I will stay as I am. Alot of you really are comparing apples to oranges here. I would have no problems (now at least) doing any of the things Nick mentioned were 'immoral' but huge money makers. Such as spam, etc.. Now I would though, as my ass wil end up in jail.

I am not here to defend myself, to all of you who have said.. "Failure"

You're right - I can't deny it. I have failed myself and my family in alot of ways, mainly myself.... I haven't been able to find where I really feel I belong in the business world yet - although honestly I am really starting to get a good feel for what I would be excellent at.

Unless a major company gives me a chance though, will take some college at least. My chance with the one major company is coming up tomorrow evening when I have a phone call with someone that has been set in place for 10 days. I hope I can convince him I have the qualities I have picked up on having the last 2-3 months.. and show him how it will improve his company's botom line.

I have no problem being an asshoe and firing people - I have no problem being an asshole to a boss I disagree with if I feel I have no idea what in the hell they want - I have no problem with growing a set of brass and using it.

I just choose where to use it differently then some do - I belong in a situation where I have an underling to do the type of shit you guys can do day in and out... That way it doesn't weight on my concious. Not self reghteous, just who I am and how I feel .. Good or Bad ..

P.S. 10 Years down the road I very well may say 'fuck that - thinking like that cost me millions' but right now it's how I feel... so until then ...

[Sin]

Originally Posted by RyanLanane

Unless a major company gives me a chance though

You seem to have an external locust of control.

[Trev]

This is one of the best threads we've had on Oprano in a long time.


I must admit I've only glanced at most of it after reading Serge's first post. That was a winner imho.

[slavdogg]

sig test
testing 1,2, 5

[Nickatilynx]

Why rise to the bait LOL

Sarettah is being an idiot on so many different levels ...

Fuck off , Russ.....

[Anthony]

If you think I'm taking this shit too serious, I've been accused by Kaiser and his crew of back when I ran Netpond.

That accusation was hard to shake off, you are a fucking idiot to bring that up.

A BONAFIDE FUCKING IDIOT to bring up on any webmaster board as a means to make money.