Checkout what I drove today: A Tesla Roadster.

[2muchmark2]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

It's what is so enjoyable having a debate with you. Rather than discussing facts and reality, you would rather name call and run away. Please, address reality. Do you not go somewhere and then come back? Do you not know that you should not partial recharge batteries? DO you not know that battery efficiency is hurt if you over charge or over deplete?

Did you consider that most people that can afford 6 figures for a car are going to live more than 20 miles from their place of business? Perhaps they might want to run some errands at lunch, after work, maybe meet some friends in the next town over for dinner, perhaps go golfing in the countryside? average commute isn't a very good indicator of usefulness for the target market.

So rather than tossing up icons and insults, how about actually discussing the topic at hand?

Alex, I think that everything that EJ has said so far is right. It's your facts that seem a little off.

Anyway, you're missing the point. Even if the numbers aren't dead-on, so what? Imagine if this were a $50,000 car instead of a $100k car. What do you get for $50k?

- 288 Mile Range
- High Tech
- Light Weight
- No gas to buy, ever.
- No pollution
- No Oil to change.
- Much fewer parts to break down (2 electric motors, a computer, batteries)
- Super-silent drive (no silly freakin' noise pollution)
- High tech, high tech, high tech
- Sick speed
- Slick looks

Trust me, I hear your arguments against it. I've owned 11 cars including my current 2010 426 Horsepower Camaro, which I loved up until I drove the Tesla. Now to me, all Gas cars seem so ... old! I'll be selling my Camaro near the end of the summer and hope to buy an electric next spring. Seriously... !

[RawAlex]

Originally Posted by 2muchmark2

Alex, I think that everything that EJ has said so far is right. It's your facts that seem a little off.

Anyway, you're missing the point. Even if the numbers aren't dead-on, so what? Imagine if this were a $50,000 car instead of a $100k car. What do you get for $50k?

- 288 Mile Range
- High Tech
- Light Weight
- No gas to buy, ever.
- No pollution
- No Oil to change.
- Much fewer parts to break down (2 electric motors, a computer, batteries)
- Super-silent drive (no silly freakin' noise pollution)
- High tech, high tech, high tech
- Sick speed
- Slick looks

Trust me, I hear your arguments against it. I've owned 11 cars including my current 2010 426 Horsepower Camaro, which I loved up until I drove the Tesla. Now to me, all Gas cars seem so ... old! I'll be selling my Camaro near the end of the summer and hope to buy an electric next spring. Seriously... !

Mark,

let's start at the top. The batteries are always an issue. Even companies like Toyota who have spent billions of dollars to get their hybrids right admit that the batteries are an issue. You should not charge them full, you should not drain them completely. Neither condition is good for them. Partial charging is also NOT recommended. Memory effect specifically an issue for lithium batteries, but partial charging (especially bump charging in the middle of a discharge cycle) still isn't the best way to do things.

EPA range on the Tesla Roadstar is 221 miles, using a very, very light duty cycle run. As noted in this road test: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ster-road_test - they got more than 160 miles, but if they ran the car on the highway at speed, it wasn't going to last very long. One European Autobahn test had the car pretty much running out of energy quickly if driving like a sports car on the open road.

The batteries also tend to overheat if you run the car hard, more than a couple of quarter mile runs (12 seconds or so full throttle) is enough to get the engine controller to shut down the fun.

Recharge time on 120V is a consumer friendly 37 hours. If you happen to be able to wing up a 220V connector, it will recharge overnight, pulling 30-70A during the cycle. The vast majority of city dwellers will not be able to use this type of car because they will lack a proper place to plug it in (think condos, or houses with only outdoor parking, or worse, street parking).

"no gas to by". Mark, we are lucky to live in a province where the vast majority of our power is created by hydro electric dams. However, if even a small percentage of cars in Quebec were converted to electric power, it is likely that we would have add things like natural gas or even coal fired plants to be able to generate enough extra power to support all of this. In the US, where hydro power is rare, they are often burning oil, natural gas, or coal to generate the electricity. In the end, it is the same difference, you can burn it in your car, or burn it at the power plant and suffer the line losses in getting it to your house.

So the car isn't a no pollution option, just a pollution shifter. The range isn't very exciting (I live at home and knock off 30,000 plus kms a year, or almost 45 miles a day). If I actually had to travel downtown from the burbs every day, run some errands, etc, I would be very leery of a car with a limited range and no simple way to recharge.

[softball]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Mark,

let's start at the top. The batteries are always an issue. Even companies like Toyota who have spent billions of dollars to get their hybrids right admit that the batteries are an issue. You should not charge them full, you should not drain them completely. Neither condition is good for them. Partial charging is also NOT recommended. Memory effect specifically an issue for lithium batteries, but partial charging (especially bump charging in the middle of a discharge cycle) still isn't the best way to do things.

EPA range on the Tesla Roadstar is 221 miles, using a very, very light duty cycle run. As noted in this road test: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ster-road_test - they got more than 160 miles, but if they ran the car on the highway at speed, it wasn't going to last very long. One European Autobahn test had the car pretty much running out of energy quickly if driving like a sports car on the open road.

The batteries also tend to overheat if you run the car hard, more than a couple of quarter mile runs (12 seconds or so full throttle) is enough to get the engine controller to shut down the fun.

Recharge time on 120V is a consumer friendly 37 hours. If you happen to be able to wing up a 220V connector, it will recharge overnight, pulling 30-70A during the cycle. The vast majority of city dwellers will not be able to use this type of car because they will lack a proper place to plug it in (think condos, or houses with only outdoor parking, or worse, street parking).

"no gas to by". Mark, we are lucky to live in a province where the vast majority of our power is created by hydro electric dams. However, if even a small percentage of cars in Quebec were converted to electric power, it is likely that we would have add things like natural gas or even coal fired plants to be able to generate enough extra power to support all of this. In the US, where hydro power is rare, they are often burning oil, natural gas, or coal to generate the electricity. In the end, it is the same difference, you can burn it in your car, or burn it at the power plant and suffer the line losses in getting it to your house.

So the car isn't a no pollution option, just a pollution shifter. The range isn't very exciting (I live at home and knock off 30,000 plus kms a year, or almost 45 miles a day). If I actually had to travel downtown from the burbs every day, run some errands, etc, I would be very leery of a car with a limited range and no simple way to recharge.

Dude, don't you live in like Winnipeg? You could only drive that car a couple of months a year. Ten months of winter you need a Saskatchewan Cadillac....a Bronco. So those batteries are not an issue. This is a high performance car. Not a commuter grocery getter. Step into the future or should I say back to the future. Cutting and pasting choice clips is making you look like an ass. Its like arguing gas mileage on a Lambo.

[2muchmark2]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Mark,

let's start at the top. The batteries are always an issue. Even companies like Toyota who have spent billions of dollars to get their hybrids right admit that the batteries are an issue. You should not charge them full, you should not drain them completely. Neither condition is good for them. Partial charging is also NOT recommended. Memory effect specifically an issue for lithium batteries, but partial charging (especially bump charging in the middle of a discharge cycle) still isn't the best way to do things.

EPA range on the Tesla Roadstar is 221 miles, using a very, very light duty cycle run. As noted in this road test: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ster-road_test - they got more than 160 miles, but if they ran the car on the highway at speed, it wasn't going to last very long. One European Autobahn test had the car pretty much running out of energy quickly if driving like a sports car on the open road.

The batteries also tend to overheat if you run the car hard, more than a couple of quarter mile runs (12 seconds or so full throttle) is enough to get the engine controller to shut down the fun.

Recharge time on 120V is a consumer friendly 37 hours. If you happen to be able to wing up a 220V connector, it will recharge overnight, pulling 30-70A during the cycle. The vast majority of city dwellers will not be able to use this type of car because they will lack a proper place to plug it in (think condos, or houses with only outdoor parking, or worse, street parking).

"no gas to by". Mark, we are lucky to live in a province where the vast majority of our power is created by hydro electric dams. However, if even a small percentage of cars in Quebec were converted to electric power, it is likely that we would have add things like natural gas or even coal fired plants to be able to generate enough extra power to support all of this. In the US, where hydro power is rare, they are often burning oil, natural gas, or coal to generate the electricity. In the end, it is the same difference, you can burn it in your car, or burn it at the power plant and suffer the line losses in getting it to your house.

So the car isn't a no pollution option, just a pollution shifter. The range isn't very exciting (I live at home and knock off 30,000 plus kms a year, or almost 45 miles a day). If I actually had to travel downtown from the burbs every day, run some errands, etc, I would be very leery of a car with a limited range and no simple way to recharge.

Hi Alex,

Well ok there are still some issues to be worked out, but to me anyway, the concept and technology is more than promising.

Since I live in a Province where electricity is "clean", I already have 220v, and my usual trips are less than a 200 miles, electric makes complete sense for people like me.