Homegrown remembers when...

[Toby]

Far-L, Wankability isn't the issue here, you've completely missed my whole point. Let me restate.

It's the existence of those long clips that is driving the traffic on these illegal tubes. Surfers visit Pornhub because of the existence of that stolen content. If the long clips weren't there then Pornhub would be no different than the hundreds of other tube sites with sponsor provided promo clips, and modest traffic volume.

As for your question, "How are you or I to know what is or is not being put up there with or without consent?" That's really not difficult at all. Do you see any links back to the originating site on most of that content? Are the watermarks still readable on the clips? The answer is no on the vast majority of the long clips. In addition, I've read comments by numerous producers stating that they've not authorized use of long clips on any site.

The bottom line is really quite clear and irrefutable. If you're doing biz with Pornhub et. al. then you're supporting content theft.

Originally Posted by Far-L

Toby - I don't recall you taking the same position when tgp and mgp raised the same questions. Now don't give me the "well it is whole movies" argument because as far as I am concerned any content that is used without permission is not ok. A surfer can jerk off to a single image just as easily as a 20 second low res clip or a full HD movie. The unfortunate fact is that content producers must police their own copyrights and trademarks and that requires eternal vigilence by the copyright holder. Your argument is just plain sophistry and is an emotional reaction rather than a logical determination. How does putting up my content solicit any sort of illicit use of content? How are you or I to know what is or is not being put up there with or without consent? If I see my content up there without permission then I have it fixed with our branded versions and they act with extreme promptness; in my experience, that means they are acting appropriately. I usually receive a result within MINUTES.

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by Toby

Far-L, Wankability isn't the issue here, you've completely missed my whole point. Let me restate.

It's the existence of those long clips that is driving the traffic on these illegal tubes. Surfers visit Pornhub because of the existence of that stolen content. If the long clips weren't there then Pornhub would be no different than the hundreds of other tube sites with sponsor provided promo clips, and modest traffic volume.

As for your question, "How are you or I to know what is or is not being put up there with or without consent?" That's really not difficult at all. Do you see any links back to the originating site on most of that content? Are the watermarks still readable on the clips? The answer is no on the vast majority of the long clips. In addition, I've read comments by numerous producers stating that they've not authorized use of long clips on any site.

The bottom line is really quite clear and irrefutable. If you're doing biz with Pornhub et. al. then you're supporting content theft.

Actually you are the one missing the point and I would have figured that you would not need it spelled out, but since that is not the case I will do my best to make it simple and clear enough for you to understand.

You and I both know that tgp started with stolen content and mgp as well. You also know that both of those changed in due course due to changing trends in the industry - namely, copyright holders policed their content more and the main purveyors of those traffic pumps changed to be compliant with legalities or face litigation... Now if I am not mistaken, you used to use tgp/mgp to get traffic, correct me if I am wrong, but who did you work with if that was or still is the case? Were all of them squeaky clean from day one? I bet not. In fact, none of them still are because the fact remains that despite their best efforts unauthorized content still gets posted time and again. Or maybe you worked with top list trade scripts? Well, all of those were sorely misused and abused so did that make you a crook because you supported that and did your best to use them in an honest fashion? So what does that make everyone that used or continues to use those advertising methods? Crooks? Tell that to every program out there and see what kind of response you get.

Maybe when you guys get away from trying to accuse me of being dishonest and unethical then something more intelligent can enrich this discussion.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by Far-L

Maybe when you guys get away from trying to accuse me of being dishonest and unethical then something more intelligent can enrich this discussion.

Far-L, you can justify this in your own mind any way you wish, but the fact is that you are doing business with content thieves who are exploiting the traffic generated by the unauthoriized use of stolen content for financial gain. This isn't just my opinion, but based on numerous public discsussions on multiple boards over the last several years it's the prevailing opinion within the industry.

What TGP/MGP did in the distant past is irrelevant. And for the record, I've never knowingly traded traffic with other TGPs that were using stolen content. There hasn't been much stolen content on TGP's in many many years.

What is relevant is what Pornhub is doing today.

I can see you're too deeply invested in your position at this point to change it, so there is but one thing left for me to do. I shall add Homegrown to my blacklisted sponsors alongside Brazzers, AFF, Dee's Evil Empire, Incredible Dollars,Twistys, Kink.com and some others. I will not promote, nor will I accept galleries from others that promote these sponsors. I'm just one small webmaster, but I know there are others that feel the same about doing biz with Pornhub.

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by Toby

Far-L, you can justify this in your own mind any way you wish, but the fact is that you are doing business with content thieves who are exploiting the traffic generated by the unauthoriized use of stolen content for financial gain. This isn't just my opinion, but based on numerous public discsussions on multiple boards over the last several years it's the prevailing opinion within the industry.

What TGP/MGP did in the distant past is irrelevant. And for the record, I've never knowingly traded traffic with other TGPs that were using stolen content. There hasn't been much stolen content on TGP's in many many years.

What is relevant is what Pornhub is doing today.

I can see you're too deeply invested in your position at this point to change it, so there is but one thing left for me to do. I shall add Homegrown to my blacklisted sponsors alongside Brazzers, AFF, Dee's Evil Empire, Incredible Dollars,Twistys, Kink.com and some others. I will not promote, nor will I accept galleries from others that promote these sponsors. I'm just one small webmaster, but I know there are others that feel the same about doing biz with Pornhub.

lol. Busted. You can't be that oblivious or that much in denial can you? The relevance is very much the point and exactly why you come out looking like an even bigger hypocrate to deny it. You are in essence saying, "if I didn't know about it or it happened in the past then as far as you are concerned it didn't happen." Sounds like kind of loosey goosey moral authority as far as I am concerned.

Sorry to hear we are blacklisted from something that never ever supported us one bit in the first place. I can see your efforts against those other programs have been highly successful.

Guess I better go back to doing gang bangs for $50 bucks a pop in LA.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by Far-L

lol. Busted. You can't be that oblivious or that much in denial can you? The relevance is very much the point and exactly why you come out looking like an even bigger hypocrate to deny it. You are in essence saying, "if I didn't know about it or it happened in the past then as far as you are concerned it didn't happen." Sounds like kind of loosey goosey moral authority as far as I am concerned.

Sorry to hear we are blacklisted from something that never ever supported us one bit in the first place. I can see your efforts against those other programs have been highly successful.

Guess I better go back to doing gang bangs for $50 bucks a pop in LA.

Give me a fuckin' break and quit evading the damn issue. I'm not oblivious nor am I denying that it happened. The fact that it happened isn't at issue unless you think I personally did biz with them and am therefore no longer credible. I did not then and I do not now. I check out my trade partners pretty closely. I can't recall the last time I found stolen content on a TGP requesting a trade.

I have had a few galleries submitted to my TGPs with stolen content. Those submitters were immediately blacklisted and other TGP owners where they submitted were notified, as well as the owner of the content and the site they were trying to promote with the stolen content.

The TGP past is irrelevant because it's not currently at issue. What is at issue is that Pornhub currently contains mostly stolen content and you don't seem to have any qualms about doing business with them. If the stolen content was in their past, but they were running a clean site today, we wouldn't be having this disussion.

Pornhub is dirty now, and you are doing business with them now. That's the only issue that is relevant.

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by Toby

Give me a fuckin' break and quit evading the damn issue. I'm not oblivious nor am I denying that it happened. The fact that it happened isn't at issue unless you think I personally did biz with them and am therefore no longer credible. I did not then and I do not now. I check out my trade partners pretty closely. I can't recall the last time I found stolen content on a TGP requesting a trade.

I have had a few galleries submitted to my TGPs with stolen content. Those submitters were immediately blacklisted and other TGP owners where they submitted were notified, as well as the owner of the content and the site they were trying to promote with the stolen content.

The TGP past is irrelevant because it's not currently at issue. What is at issue is that Pornhub currently contains mostly stolen content and you don't seem to have any qualms about doing business with them. If the stolen content was in their past, but they were running a clean site today, we wouldn't be having this disussion.

Pornhub is dirty now, and you are doing business with them now. That's the only issue that is relevant.

Precisely my point. What tgp's did you work with? All the top ones that I know of admit openly that they started with unauthorized content. If you did business with any of them then you knowingly or unknowingly, doesn't matter which, worked with admitted scammers. Now you want to sit in a glass house and throw stones at me like you are somehow superior. What makes that worse is you think that because it happened yesterday instead of today makes a difference. Well, to the truly ethical person it does not.

I don't know what content is or is not authorized on Pornhub. All I know is that they have proactively and professionally and responsibly handled my issues with our content being used without permission. And that is what we use as a measure of whether or not they are intentionally stealing OUR content. Other companies may have had a different experience, but that is their matter as a company to deal with. Maybe the Pink Visual lawsuit will prove otherwise and I can see the situation in more black and white terms like you so clearly do. When that day comes, if it comes, because I doubt it will, then I will be happy to admit my wrongness.

Until then, do me a favor and lay off your baseless accusations and admit your own "unclean hands".

[Toby]

Originally Posted by Far-L

Precisely my point. What tgp's did you work with? All the top ones that I know of admit openly that they started with unauthorized content.

My first TGP didn't go online until 2004. It and all but my most recent are narrow niche fetish wear specific. I don't trade with large general category TGP's. I trade with other niche relevant TGPs. Even if some of them were involved in content theft years ago, I still fail to see what that has to do with today. If they're clean now, and have been so for years, then their traffic today is clean.

Stolen content on TGPs hasn't been more than an isolated issue for many years, ever since sponsor hosted galleries became the norm.

Originally Posted by Far-L

Until then, do me a favor and lay off your baseless accusations and admit your own "unclean hands".

My hands are clean, and your attempts to discredit me rather than address the real issue have become rather transparent.