Could 2257 finally get defeated?

[pornlaw]

No point killed... I just really wanted to know. I always wonder whether those most vocal are just vocal or are do lend the support or the action needed. I applaud both of you and anyone else for being members or for being past members.

[tony404]

Originally Posted by pornlaw

No point killed... I just really wanted to know. I always wonder whether those most vocal are just vocal or are do lend the support or the action needed. I applaud both of you and anyone else for being members or for being past members.

The problem we have micheal in this industry,everyone cant put their agendas aside long enough to have a common goal for the long term of the industry. A good chunk of them think they are brilliant masters of the universe and extremely short sighted.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by pornlaw

No point killed... I just really wanted to know. I always wonder whether those most vocal are just vocal or are do lend the support or the action needed. I applaud both of you and anyone else for being members or for being past members.

Youll find several of us were past members and disappointed.

The shady activity Bill Margolis and some of the past officers plus promises of being safe from 2257 - the group has left a very bad taste in my mouth.
We mostly get to read about another celebrity fund raiser party as the main activity from the group.

And yes we are all aware of the group taking credit for stopping .XXX.

That being said I give my money to Mitch Kapor's group the EFF and have for many years.

Maybe youve heard of him . . . http://www.kapor.com/bio/index.html

I dont know Dianne but maybe we can get a clear answer from her whats going on and how we all can work together for a change.

Ill have to admit theres not much of a choice between the FSC and Joan.

[Hell Puppy]

I've been a member of EFF since 1991. I'm a charter member of the USIIA, I helped get the thing going back when it was the Association of Online Professionals back at One BBSCON the year it was in St. Louis.

And that's why I've been in and out, mostly out, of FSC. I know what a professionally run lobby or activist group should look like, and FSC for the most part hasn't been it. Some good folks there, some good work, but it lacks the effectiveness and transparency to make me throw significant donations at it.

Speaking of EFF, it's odd how the fears change over time. Back in the early 90's you had things like Amateur Action, Rusty 'n Edie's, etc, going on. Amateur Action got busted for mailing porn to some podunk area of Tennessee on postal charges initially. Rusty 'n Edie got punked on copyrights, first off by the SPA and Microsoft, but also by Playboy, yes Playboy, for posting their copyrighted material. Whodathunkit?

Putting aside whether they were guilty or not (Rusty 'n Edie's draw was piracy undeniably), the problem back in the day was the investigation.

Most BBS operations, even huge multinode systems, lived in the basement of people's homes. Hell, I still have the remnants of an old LANtastic based PCBoard system mothballed down in my skunkworks. If you were targeted for investigation, the FBI shows up, knocks on your door, comes in and confiscates ALL of your systems. You've not been proven guilty of anything at that point, but you're effectively shut down and out of business as it might be years before you see your hardware again and who knows what state it will all be in.

2257 is just the latest way to deter porn with fear. Very complex convoluted record keeping laws and if in the eyes of an investigator you are missing something, you can be branded for child porn. that accusation alone will end your life as you know it. Your neighbors will tuck their kids behind them when they see you out and try to drive you out of the neighborhood, no one will do business with you, your family and friends may not even look at you the same way ever again.

Cost of doing business?

[FSC Diane]

First, Emporer EJ, I am sorry to hear that FSC failed to provide you with satisfactory customer service. We are a service provider to our members and member service is an utmost priority to me and my staff. I don’t know when FSC fell short but I would like to follow-up with you to find out the details to make sure that this kind of error does not happen again. If you would be so kind as to contact me at diane@freespeechcoalition.com I would love to arrange a time for us to talk. I appreciate the insight that you share about our industry and FSC and I know I would enjoy further conversation.

Tony404, I am happy to hear that you are open to renewing your membership. I would be happy to talk to you or have Joanne, our membership directo,r talk to you about your membership and how FSC can work to help you and your business.

Gonzo, I have been with FSC for three years. During that time, Bill Margold has not worked for FSC. Bill has an important voice in our industry, but he speaks representing PAWS and not FSC.

When you refer to “Joan,” I assume you are speaking of Joan Irvine, the ED of ASACP, who contributes a great deal to the industry as well. She works tirelessly to separate the industry from the stigma of child pornography that right-wing fundamentalist often brand onto adult entertainment. ASACP and FSC are two different organizations; FSC is the adult entertainment industry’s trade association. The two organizations are not mutually exclusive, but rather compliment each other to serve the industry and ward off unwarranted government intervention.

Yes, Gonzo, FSC does take credit for blocking .XXX. We take credit for it because we (myself and Jeffrey Douglas) were the only ones there in Portugal, literally sitting outside meeting rooms with pictures of ICANN Board members to grab them and plead our case as they left their meeting rooms. I bribed the concierge to slip notes under Board members doors. We made such an impression that ICANN gave us 20 minutes of their Board meeting time to plead our case. One hundred and fifty countries were vying for time on that board agenda and we got 20 minutes--unheard of. In the end, we, the adult entertainment industry prevailed.

Similar stories exist about 2257, tax on adult entertainment, piracy, OSHA, production insurance, member benefits and so much more. You say you don’t know me and that is true. I believe that FSC’s greatest shortcoming is lack of communication. We do a great deal for the industry but you hear about very little. We spend more time working on the issues than talking about them. I do not believe that that is a good thing in that it keeps people like you from being involved in, and communicating about the important issues that we are tackling. Our staff--Keah, Kim and Joanne and I--do all that we have spoken of with a budget of just a little over $500K. To put that in perspective, MPAA, mainstream entertainment’s trade association, has a budget of $120 million.

We have a dedicated volunteer Board of Directors who support our efforts and give a great deal of their personal time and resources to further the work of FSC.

I love my job and am humbled and honored to be a part of this incredible and dynamic industry. I appreciate you providing me with the opportunity to answer your very valid concerns.

[tony404]

I will keep my mouth shut.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by FSC Diane

Gonzo, I have been with FSC for three years. During that time, Bill Margold has not worked for FSC. Bill has an important voice in our industry, but he speaks representing PAWS and not FSC.

When you refer to “Joan,” I assume you are speaking of Joan Irvine, the ED of ASACP, who contributes a great deal to the industry as well. She works tirelessly to separate the industry from the stigma of child pornography that right-wing fundamentalist often brand onto adult entertainment. ASACP and FSC are two different organizations; FSC is the adult entertainment industry’s trade association. The two organizations are not mutually exclusive, but rather compliment each other to serve the industry and ward off unwarranted government intervention.

Yes, Gonzo, FSC does take credit for blocking .XXX. We take credit for it because we (myself and Jeffrey Douglas) were the only ones there in Portugal, literally sitting outside meeting rooms with pictures of ICANN Board members to grab them and plead our case as they left their meeting rooms. I bribed the concierge to slip notes under Board members doors. We made such an impression that ICANN gave us 20 minutes of their Board meeting time to plead our case. One hundred and fifty countries were vying for time on that board agenda and we got 20 minutes--unheard of. In the end, we, the adult entertainment industry prevailed.

Similar stories exist about 2257, tax on adult entertainment, piracy, OSHA, production insurance, member benefits and so much more. You say you don’t know me and that is true. I believe that FSC’s greatest shortcoming is lack of communication. We do a great deal for the industry but you hear about very little. We spend more time working on the issues than talking about them. I do not believe that that is a good thing in that it keeps people like you from being involved in, and communicating about the important issues that we are tackling. Our staff--Keah, Kim and Joanne and I--do all that we have spoken of with a budget of just a little over $500K. To put that in perspective, MPAA, mainstream entertainment’s trade association, has a budget of $120 million.

We have a dedicated volunteer Board of Directors who support our efforts and give a great deal of their personal time and resources to further the work of FSC.

I love my job and am humbled and honored to be a part of this incredible and dynamic industry. I appreciate you providing me with the opportunity to answer your very valid concerns.

I am impressed by your tenacity to follow up with the .XXX debacle to the end. I fear that issue isnt quite over just yet.

However I do not share you enthusiasm for Joan and her group. They supported .XXX in the begining and back peddled when it became unpopular and public information that a deal had been cut between the proposed registrar of those names and Joans group.

In short - ya kinda lost me. And after all these years the group has yet to tell em how any of those evil child porn sites they have taken down and remain offline. Youd think that an organization with that level of contributions from this industry would be held accountable for its core mission. Ive always felt it those contributions were made as they play on peoples guilt in this industry.

I was initially involved with your group back when Bill Lyons founded it.

The accounting issues that plagued it back then along with the false expectations of protection from 2257 prosecution just left me with a very bad taste in my mouth.

Thanks for taking the time to clarify some questions and our welcome to do so here anytime youd like.

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by FSC Diane

First, Emporer EJ, I am sorry to hear that FSC failed to provide you with satisfactory customer service. We are a service provider to our members and member service is an utmost priority to me and my staff. I don’t know when FSC fell short but I would like to follow-up with you to find out the details to make sure that this kind of error does not happen again. If you would be so kind as to contact me at diane@freespeechcoalition.com I would love to arrange a time for us to talk. I appreciate the insight that you share about our industry and FSC and I know I would enjoy further conversation.

I appreciate you responding here. And I'll talk with you then. But is was something more than "customer service."
There's no point flaming the FSC on the board, but I feel a bit like Gonzo's response.
You kinda lost me along the way......(for different reasons)

At the expense of sounding Not politically correct, I don't care about chasing kiddie porn people.
It's a horrible thing, and those people are evil and all ought to be hung up by their balls. But we pay for an FBI, let them chase 'em. I'm not paying twice to do it.

The FSC should be about one thing: (Primarily) Protecting Free Speech.
Not local issues in California, except as they affect the rest of the country.

And if you don't have a lobbyist in Washington, you're simply chasing your tail. You are RE-acting to things happening to the industry. We need to be PRO-active. That's how Government works. By the time it gets to "enforcement," the big wheel of government is already rolling. It's 100X easier to stop it's momentum BEFORE it gets rolling.

That's the basis of my argument.
I really believe it's a west coast/east coast way of thinking.

[Hell Puppy]

Nice font.

typed up in Word?

How many had to sign off on it before you posted?

[tony404]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

Nice font.

typed up in Word?

How many had to sign off on it before you posted?

you are too jaded. lol