Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?

[EmporerEJ]

Well, I think if they want to have fans come, that's Ok. But they should have "Trade only" time, if that's what the show is about.
If we exhibit at a show, we are looking for both "customers." But, everyone knows you deal with things, and keep the both locked up on "Fan" days.

And the badges should be CLEARLY marked "Fan".
Charge the fans, cut the price on the exhibitors.
I donb't have a problem with AVN/XBiz, or whoever making a buck on the shows, but make it a REASONABLE buck.

And charging talent to be there? What kind of sense does that make? No Talent, no droolers.
Just make sure you have different days, different things. But all the CES Geeks in one place? It's a gold mine.....mine it.
It's good for the industry all around.
That's how the show got started, y'know?

I'm a classic example.....started out as a hybrid CES/AVN (Video store owner, worked in both industries)

[Hell Puppy]

Mike hits upon one of the key problems. And that is the agenda of the people producing the shows. Whether it be AVN, xbiz or whoever, they are doing it as a for profit venture. Any show is, but the difference here is they are using the long outdated exhibition/seminar model, which I think we've all pretty well established is broken.

The best shows right now are those that are actually put on for "business partners". The show itself, call it a summit or whatever, is not for profit, though they will try to at least break even or subsidize the hell out of the event with sponsorships or registration costs. But the underlying goal is to bring together business partners who are in a symbiotic relationship to learn and strategize how they can all grow together.

To put it another way, our shows are all about everyone trying to protect or expand their piece of the pie....and it's a shrinking pie. I'd be more interested in learning how to grow the pie. I dont mind sharing, I have no desire to be a monopoly, and I will help people if it helps me. Adult shows as they exist now do not foster this type of relationship at all...

[gonzo]

Theres that word again . . . "summit" .

I wonder way off somewhere if there is a bell being rung...

[tony404]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

Mike hits upon one of the key problems. And that is the agenda of the people producing the shows. Whether it be AVN, xbiz or whoever, they are doing it as a for profit venture. Any show is, but the difference here is they are using the long outdated exhibition/seminar model, which I think we've all pretty well established is broken.

The best shows right now are those that are actually put on for "business partners". The show itself, call it a summit or whatever, is not for profit, though they will try to at least break even or subsidize the hell out of the event with sponsorships or registration costs. But the underlying goal is to bring together business partners who are in a symbiotic relationship to learn and strategize how they can all grow together.

To put it another way, our shows are all about everyone trying to protect or expand their piece of the pie....and it's a shrinking pie. I'd be more interested in learning how to grow the pie. I dont mind sharing, I have no desire to be a monopoly, and I will help people if it helps me. Adult shows as they exist now do not foster this type of relationship at all...

good points, I think that will never happen because there are waaay too many agendas and way too many who couldnt make nickle in the real world and the thought this world is crumbling.Makes them do anything to save what they have. There is a real desperation in the air.

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by tony404

good points, I think that will never happen because there are waaay too many agendas and way too many who couldnt make nickle in the real world and the thought this world is crumbling.Makes them do anything to save what they have. There is a real desperation in the air.

Real desperation because there has been little change in the adult market in the past 30 years.

Film to Video (Big Jump in sales) 80's
Video to DVD and web in the 90's. (New sales channels for basically the same product)
The public is still just watching a video of porn on a screen.
80's- Theater, and then TV screen-
90's-00's- TV screen & Computer screen......(And now it lags, and is jumpy)

And they've finally figured it out.

Hence, they expect it for free. And some in the industry, are happy to oblige with Tube sites. (Which I don't care about)
But everyone else screams "The sky is falling" because the days of shooting fish in the barrel is over.

Boy, we couldn't see this one coming, like 10 years ago? When all the other "business models" in the non-adult industry also failed to monetize web traffic?

PLEASE. If you don't give the customer some kind of "value added" service, real or perceived, he eventually figures it out, and you've lost his attention, and his dollars.

Maybe there NEEDS to be "desperation in the air."

[tony404]

Originally Posted by EmporerEJ

Real desperation because there has been little change in the adult market in the past 30 years.

Film to Video (Big Jump in sales) 80's
Video to DVD and web in the 90's. (New sales channels for basically the same product)
The public is still just watching a video of porn on a screen.
80's- Theater, and then TV screen-
90's-00's- TV screen & Computer screen......(And now it lags, and is jumpy)

And they've finally figured it out.

Hence, they expect it for free. And some in the industry, are happy to oblige with Tube sites. (Which I don't care about)
But everyone else screams "The sky is falling" because the days of shooting fish in the barrel is over.

Boy, we couldn't see this one coming, like 10 years ago? When all the other "business models" in the non-adult industry also failed to monetize web traffic?

PLEASE. If you don't give the customer some kind of "value added" service, real or perceived, he eventually figures it out, and you've lost his attention, and his dollars.

Maybe there NEEDS to be "desperation in the air."

you have some good points but I think there is desperation when you have big companies giving away full scenes on the hope some will join after jerking off to their stuff for free.

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by tony404

you have some good points but I think there is desperation when you have big companies giving away full scenes on the hope some will join after jerking off to their stuff for free.

Yea, I agree. I'm still trying to figure out that business model?
Own a tube site, and a "per minute" site?

I guess it works if you ONLY give a tease, but they don't?
I dunno, seems counter productive to me..

[tony404]

Originally Posted by EmporerEJ

Yea, I agree. I'm still trying to figure out that business model?
Own a tube site, and a "per minute" site?

I guess it works if you ONLY give a tease, but they don't?
I dunno, seems counter productive to me..

I own paysites and have some clips for sale stores. I agree with you, I cant figure out the business model of giving it all away. I think its because its not a business model.

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

Mike hits upon one of the key problems. And that is the agenda of the people producing the shows. Whether it be AVN, xbiz or whoever, they are doing it as a for profit venture. Any show is, but the difference here is they are using the long outdated exhibition/seminar model, which I think we've all pretty well established is broken.

The best shows right now are those that are actually put on for "business partners". The show itself, call it a summit or whatever, is not for profit, though they will try to at least break even or subsidize the hell out of the event with sponsorships or registration costs. But the underlying goal is to bring together business partners who are in a symbiotic relationship to learn and strategize how they can all grow together.

To put it another way, our shows are all about everyone trying to protect or expand their piece of the pie....and it's a shrinking pie. I'd be more interested in learning how to grow the pie. I dont mind sharing, I have no desire to be a monopoly, and I will help people if it helps me. Adult shows as they exist now do not foster this type of relationship at all...

Look, I appreciate your opinion, but I just can't agree. I've never heard of a trade show put on "Not for profit." Sounds more like you are having "a meeting." Or maybe a sewing group?
You could put your own show/summit, on maybe?

And hell yes, it's about a bigger piece of pie. And I DON'T agree with you on "Shrinking pie." Maybe from your seat?

The adult industry has STEADILY grown since the mid 80's when I started in in it?

And you want to know about something new...something that "grows the pie?"
What the hell have I been doing for the past 9 years?
I invented the Virtual Sex Machine, and created an enitrely NEW channel to RESELL the "Pie" (Content...new or old, is NEW to the VR market,) in.
Don't blame me if some people can't see it. "Others" seem to get it as we are now beginning to see "Knock offs," or put more kindly for the benefit of others here, "similar players in the VR field."

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by EmporerEJ

Look, I appreciate your opinion, but I just can't agree. I've never heard of a trade show put on "Not for profit." Sounds more like you are having "a meeting." Or maybe a sewing group?
You could put your own show/summit, on maybe?

And hell yes, it's about a bigger piece of pie. And I DON'T agree with you on "Shrinking pie." Maybe from your seat?

The adult industry has STEADILY grown since the mid 80's when I started in in it?

And you want to know about something new...something that "grows the pie?"
What the hell have I been doing for the past 9 years?
I invented the Virtual Sex Machine, and created an enitrely NEW channel to RESELL the "Pie" (Content...new or old, is NEW to the VR market,) in.
Don't blame me if some people can't see it. "Others" seem to get it as we are now beginning to see "Knock offs," or put more kindly for the benefit of others here, "similar players in the VR field."

I think you're missing my points here...

"Not for profit" on a show...of course the idea is to make money, but the money isn't coming from attendee badges, exhibitor fees, sponsorships, advertising, etc as is the typical model. What I'm referring to are things like the shows Oracle or SAP do.

They MAY or may not make a profit off the show itself, that's incidental. What they're looking to do is see all of their customers and business partners grow and thus buy more of their core product. They're in business to make money off their core products not shows.

As for the shrinking pie...anyone really think there's as much money coming into the adult web in 2009 as there was in say 2002? I think page views, users and every other metric are up....they're WAY up, but we're giving a lot away.

DEMAND for our product is high as ever. ACCESSIBILITY and ease of distribution, also better than it's ever been. People have privacy, convenience, easy of use, and heck with today's cable modem speeds quality of the streams is getting better all the time.

But for reasons we're all aware of, it's harder and harder to get a user to trust us with their credit card number. The people who should be our best customers, the guys who have disposable income and are free with their credit card get taught a lesson as soon as they happen across the wrong site. Unfortunately this doesn't take long.

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

I think you're missing my points here...

"Not for profit" on a show...of course the idea is to make money, but the money isn't coming from attendee badges, exhibitor fees, sponsorships, advertising, etc as is the typical model. What I'm referring to are things like the shows Oracle or SAP do.

They MAY or may not make a profit off the show itself, that's incidental. What they're looking to do is see all of their customers and business partners grow and thus buy more of their core product. They're in business to make money off their core products not shows.

As for the shrinking pie...anyone really think there's as much money coming into the adult web in 2009 as there was in say 2002? I think page views, users and every other metric are up....they're WAY up, but we're giving a lot away.

DEMAND for our product is high as ever. ACCESSIBILITY and ease of distribution, also better than it's ever been. People have privacy, convenience, easy of use, and heck with today's cable modem speeds quality of the streams is getting better all the time.

But for reasons we're all aware of, it's harder and harder to get a user to trust us with their credit card number. The people who should be our best customers, the guys who have disposable income and are free with their credit card get taught a lesson as soon as they happen across the wrong site. Unfortunately this doesn't take long.

Again...we'll have to agree to disagree on the show thing.
I think $200 entrance is too high, but i don't have a problem with some kind of "gate fee" to keep the squirrels out.

As for the industry....hey, the industry did it to itself.
Again, I refer to the article I wrote back in 2001, (And being the arrogant bastard I am, saying I told you so.)

AVN Article- ...Sleeping Sex Industry

And all those scam games, people played, hurt us all. Fortunately, we ship a durable good, with a signature, so we don't have those same kind of problems. Our customer feel a bit better knowing they'll get a box fro the UPS man, or they could do a charge back. We have no problem with that.

For the decent folk, like most here, I feel bad they have to put up with this crap. Many of the people here have been around for years, like me. For the scammers, I have NO pity. I hope they fry for what they've done to us all. (See the august talk back in XBiz (Print) magazine for my VERY open opinion on THAT.)