Max Hardcore - Hero or Zero ?

[softball]

I just wish there were more safety nets for these women and less predators masquerading as boyfriends, husbands, agents, directors, etc.

but you wouldn't take away their freedom to do this?

[CWDW]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

but you wouldn't take away their freedom to do this?

Nope. O_o

It could be argued that ALL porn producers are predatory wolves manipulating and coercing innocent, lost women into all sorts of sodomy etc. Ask any right-wing "civilian"! Peddlers of filth etc. should all be shut down according to them!

It's dangerous to start in with allowing anybody to say what another group does is "gross" or "wrong" and should be outlawed. Pretty soon we're all fucked and nobody's getting any reach-around.

For instance, I really like The Fashionistas but there are plenty of people who would find that sort of content offensive to say the least and would outlaw it immediately if they could get away with it. Personally I believe in a person's right to choose, even if I think their choice sucks because I want that freedom for myself. Simple as that.

[miz_wright]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

but you wouldn't take away their freedom to do this?

It's been proven time and time again you can't legislate morality. Neither can we effectively legislate thought crime. One person's brutality is another person's orgasm. There is no effective way beyond socialisation and education to break those patterns of abuse.

Originally Posted by Toby

While I think Max got hosed in court, and that people have the right to view that kind of material if they choose, I do have problem with deliberately creating a situation where a model feels she can't just gather up her stuff and walk out if her own personal line in the sand is crossed.

Toby, the argument could be made that any and all content puts a performer in that position. Indeed, the Dworkin feminists HAVE made that argument.

So... What's the solution in these cases? An entry test for performers/ managers/ shooters? Who writes it? Who determines what an acceptable level of "mental stablility" gets the passing grade?

[Toby]

Originally Posted by LizAEBN

,,Toby, the argument could be made that any and all content puts a performer in that position. Indeed, the Dworkin feminists HAVE made that argument.

So... What's the solution in these cases? An entry test for performers/ managers/ shooters? Who writes it? Who determines what an acceptable level of "mental stablility" gets the passing grade?

What I think or what the Dworkin's think is irrelevant. The only ones whose opinions matter are the models themselves. If they feel overly coerced, repeatedly, then it's wrong. A contract lawyer would have a field day with that in a contract dispute case.

The solution is for models to inform each other, and the entire industry in extreme or repeat offender cases. It's far easier these days than in the past, where it had to be more or less word of mouth. Had blogs, etc. been as prevalent at the time of Julie's encounter with Max, and had she posted about it, how many models would have refused to work for him, or at least made sure they had the option to get up and walk out to their own car and leave?

[miz_wright]

Originally Posted by Toby

What I think or what the Dworkin's think is irrelevant. The only ones whose opinions matter are the models themselves. If they feel overly coerced, repeatedly, then it's wrong. A contract lawyer would have a field day with that in a contract dispute case.

The solution is for models to inform each other, and the entire industry in extreme or repeat offender cases. It's far easier these days than in the past, where it had to be more or less word of mouth. Had blogs, etc. been as prevalent at the time of Julie's encounter with Max, and had she posted about it, how many models would have refused to work for him, or at least made sure they had the option to get up and walk out to their own car and leave?

You make an interesting point here about models contacting one another. There are a lot of ways the performers could benefit if they worked together on this and other concerns. Small consortiums of sex workers have done so in the past to excellent effect, but the phrase "herding cats" comes to mind.

[gonzo]

Now Max is whining to FSC's Diane Duke...

http://www.xbiz.com/blogs/blog.php?b...=110894#110894

[softball]

Originally Posted by LizAEBN

You make an interesting point here about models contacting one another. There are a lot of ways the performers could benefit if they worked together on this and other concerns. Small consortiums of sex workers have done so in the past to excellent effect, but the phrase "herding cats" comes to mind.

Two comments....
As far as models go, I would say that the majority of girls I have shot have a damaged past. One could argue that we all do, but in this case I have noticed a recurring theme of some kind of abuse. I work with my talent for multiple days and have them back to do it again fairly regularly and over the past decade of shooting, I can honestly say that this very common.

Around here, we have a local board where people post looking for work and advice. A lot of girls have been warned off possibly dangerous situations. If not publicly, certainly in private. I have advised many girls of producers that I know, or guys that are just gwc's (guys with cameras), where a potential problem could develop. It isn't perfect but its something.