Max Hardcore - Hero or Zero ?

[miz_wright]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

I like freedom as well. And I lost a friend who died with a smile on his face and an electrical cord around his neck. I guess you could say he achieved the impossible. He came and went at the same time.
Being in Vancouver, I have worked with many girls who went through the Sweet mill and it was nasty, very nasty. Perhaps worse than Max. However, some did enjoy the abuse as a fanatsy.
The Sweet decision in a Canadian court was kind of bittersweet. The perpetrators of some very abusive and sould destroying shit walked away free and clear. I think they should have suffered consequences because somewhere in the world, the worst of those guys is still abusing people.
However, that decision made whatever I do so legal it squeaks. Shooting porn in Canada is a pretty good option nowadays, because we have access to good talent and never ever wory about a knock on the door and some local cop fucking up our lives.
I do hope, however, Max spends enough time in jail to ponder his miserable existance. Perhaps the best outcome would be a successful appeal, if that is possible, and people will sit up and take notice of what they are doing.

I don't know Max, so I can't say anything about him personally. What I *can* speak to are my concerns as a citizen. And the question in this whole case for me is whether I am comfortable creating a boundary on what is obscene - and the Miller test maintains the standard of that which is "patently offensive."

Which keeps coming back to "for whom?" I can't speak for you about that - Stagliano clearly has had a successful career, so clearly, the community standard test doesn't work if people are buying it. Protect the kids, protect against non-consensual violence - but not on a basis of "I think it's icky."

[CWDW]

Originally Posted by LizAEBN

I don't know Max, so I can't say anything about him personally. What I *can* speak to are my concerns as a citizen. And the question in this whole case for me is whether I am comfortable creating a boundary on what is obscene - and the Miller test maintains the standard of that which is "patently offensive."

Which keeps coming back to "for whom?" I can't speak for you about that - Stagliano clearly has had a successful career, so clearly, the community standard test doesn't work if people are buying it. Protect the kids, protect against non-consensual violence - but not on a basis of "I think it's icky."

Agreed. People should be able to do all the weird sick shit they really want to do.

The real problem I see (like in Julie's story about Max) is that there are girls doing things that they don't really want to do for whatever reason: money, pressure, whatever. It's the calculated coercion of women to do things that hurt them that bothers me. It's a "gentle" form of rape to manipulate the situation and apply pressure in the right ways in order to force someone's consent. But this is not a problem that can really be addressed in a courthouse. And when you add to that cocktail a woman who is unsure of herself and easily led, well...assholes get ripped and shit happens.

So yeah, I think that anybody should be able to get abused on camera if that's what they're really into. But unfortunately a lot of the time the women who really want that and the ones that are being coerced are actually one and the same- a lot of the attraction to that kind of shit is based in childhood trauma and other things that might skew one's judgement.

But- and that's a BIG BUT- I STILL think people should have the right to do what they want to. I don't want anybody coming along to tell me I can't enjoy MY freedoms- one of which is working in this business. I just wish there were more safety nets for these women and less predators masquerading as boyfriends, husbands, agents, directors, etc.

[TheEnforcer]

Originally Posted by LizAEBN

I don't know Max, so I can't say anything about him personally. What I *can* speak to are my concerns as a citizen. And the question in this whole case for me is whether I am comfortable creating a boundary on what is obscene - and the Miller test maintains the standard of that which is "patently offensive."

Which keeps coming back to "for whom?" I can't speak for you about that - Stagliano clearly has had a successful career, so clearly, the community standard test doesn't work if people are buying it. Protect the kids, protect against non-consensual violence - but not on a basis of "I think it's icky."

Sums it up pretty nicely as usual Liz. Certainly not my type of porn at all but I'm not comfortable with the government saying it's worthy of censorship.