Piracy Summit Speakers

[buggerlugs]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Also make it ISPs responsible for who is uploading content. It would be simple to do, if you're not approved you can't upload.

How would that be simple?
Half of the software on my computer needs upload to call home, My OS needs upload to update its self, send bug reports etc. How would I send email? How would I update my websites?

ISPs will not be able to monitor every individual on a network EVER and even if they do "approve" me, how do they know what I'm doing if i were to use an encrypted torrent system? (which will be the next stage in piracy).
If I upload a zip file called 'myupdates.zip' to my website, how do they know whats actually inside that zip?

While I agree that they should take some responsibility, its easy to point the finger at ISPs.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

How would that be simple?
Half of the software on my computer needs upload to call home, My OS needs upload to update its self, send bug reports etc. How would I send email? How would I update my websites?

ISPs will not be able to monitor every individual on a network EVER and even if they do "approve" me, how do they know what I'm doing if i were to use an encrypted torrent system? (which will be the next stage in piracy).
If I upload a zip file called 'myupdates.zip' to my website, how do they know whats actually inside that zip?

While I agree that they should take some responsibility, its easy to point the finger at ISPs.

I pay as much attention to what Paul says as I do about him keeping his word.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

How would that be simple?
Half of the software on my computer needs upload to call home, My OS needs upload to update its self, send bug reports etc. How would I send email? How would I update my websites?

ISPs will not be able to monitor every individual on a network EVER and even if they do "approve" me, how do they know what I'm doing if i were to use an encrypted torrent system? (which will be the next stage in piracy).
If I upload a zip file called 'myupdates.zip' to my website, how do they know whats actually inside that zip?

While I agree that they should take some responsibility, its easy to point the finger at ISPs.

Ifyou can't get approved as an uploader to your own ISP then you need to find out why. It would need changes in the way we work, but it can be done. It would need the law to be worded so it's not a slam dunk disqualification if one rogue person uploaded something wrongly. But the law needs to be changed some way so ISPs don't just turn around and claim they are not responsible.

Or we all lose out.

Got any better ideas.

Gonzo prove it or fuck off.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Ifyou can't get approved as an uploader to your own ISP then you need to find out why. It would need changes in the way we work, but it can be done. It would need the law to be worded so it's not a slam dunk disqualification if one rogue person uploaded something wrongly. But the law needs to be changed some way so ISPs don't just turn around and claim they are not responsible.

Or we all lose out.

Got any better ideas.

Gonzo prove it or fuck off.

You can fuck off Paul.

Everyone here knows you talk out both sides of your neck. Bashing the tubes publically and then begging them for the promotion on the other hand.

Add to you showing up here about once a month to stir some shit in an effort to sell your content or shill for some free promo and disappear shortly after to repeat the cycle.

May work for the GFY crowd but all of us here know better.

[buggerlugs]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Ifyou can't get approved as an uploader to your own ISP then you need to find out why. It would need changes in the way we work, but it can be done.

so i get approved to upload - as do 10 million other people on my network how do you think my isp can sit and monitor us all 365/24/7? no isp could possibly have those kind of resources.

[RawAlex]

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

so i get approved to upload - as do 10 million other people on my network how do you think my isp can sit and monitor us all 365/24/7? no isp could possibly have those kind of resources.

At some point, the ISPs will end up being forced to take action to avoid legal liablity. Many ISPs already block standard outgoing email ports to avoid simple minded spammers, so in some ways they are already controlling and checking what their clients do. Examining at least in passing all non-port80 traffic would likely be a good way to spot people serving files, and then you can check to see what files they are offering. You don't have to check every data packet of every user, just run a big sample, find out who is doing what, and then look at them more closely.

The traffic shaping software has been pretty effective (read so effective people noticed) so it wouldn't be hard to use that same sort of data to target network users and check to see if they have potentially illegal content.

P2P isn't that easy to hide, no matter how much they try.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

At some point, the ISPs will end up being forced to take action to avoid legal liablity. Many ISPs already block standard outgoing email ports to avoid simple minded spammers, so in some ways they are already controlling and checking what their clients do. Examining at least in passing all non-port80 traffic would likely be a good way to spot people serving files, and then you can check to see what files they are offering. You don't have to check every data packet of every user, just run a big sample, find out who is doing what, and then look at them more closely.

The traffic shaping software has been pretty effective (read so effective people noticed) so it wouldn't be hard to use that same sort of data to target network users and check to see if they have potentially illegal content.

P2P isn't that easy to hide, no matter how much they try.

I agree with you. The Internet was set up as a free area and it's been abused ever since. The days of it remaining free are numbered or the money that could be made will be lost.

So what if it's tough to upload or send emails. That means less people stealing content and less people sending spam.

AND MORE PEOPLE MAKING MONEY.

I'm not technical but I do know the Internet could be a wonderful tool to generate vast amounts of income for the West. Only if it's regulated. Unregulated it's a money pit.

[buggerlugs]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

At some point, the ISPs will end up being forced to take action to avoid legal liablity. Many ISPs already block standard outgoing email ports to avoid simple minded spammers, so in some ways they are already controlling and checking what their clients do. Examining at least in passing all non-port80 traffic would likely be a good way to spot people serving files, and then you can check to see what files they are offering. You don't have to check every data packet of every user, just run a big sample, find out who is doing what, and then look at them more closely.

The traffic shaping software has been pretty effective (read so effective people noticed) so it wouldn't be hard to use that same sort of data to target network users and check to see if they have potentially illegal content.

P2P isn't that easy to hide, no matter how much they try.

I agree in some respects but controlling an email port is a little different to monitoring what people are sending and recieving and stopping a few packets here and there isnt very scientific - more like shooting a gun at a target with the lights turned off.
Also controlling ports isnt that useful because i can tell a newsreading prog to download stuff from newsgroups via port 80 - which an ISP can never block because its a standard web port.
Ultimately file sharers will find alternative routes.

The real issue that needs looking at is WHY people do it. I personally dont think poverty is the only reason, I'm sure a lot do it just because they can - many are totally ignorant of what copyright even is.

I think DRM is a major problem too - people hate it.

Go over to amazon and look at the reviews for electronic arts "spore" game - masses of negitive reviews all concerning DRM.
If you buy that game you can only install it 3 times and then no more - ever. Get the hacked copy that was released hours after it went on sale and you can install it all you like.
Whos being punished there? It didnt stop hackers or people downloading it.

the same with itunes. I refuse to buy anything from there because we've seen several online music stores close this year and people who paid for stuff are told "tough luck, sorry".
Amazon USA and play in the UK both sell mp3's with no DRM, which really is the way forward. If its accessible and inexpnsive people are more likely to pay.

Once you find out 'why' then people can start asking 'how' to fix it.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

Once you find out 'why' then people can start asking 'how' to fix it.

They do it because they can get away with it. It's that simple.

Now try and fix it.

[buggerlugs]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

They do it because they can get away with it. It's that simple.

Now try and fix it.

Thats incredibly over simplistic and pure opinion. I'm not going to get drawn into some forum trol/flame war so ill stop talking now and put you on my ignore list.
No offence but I see too much negitivity and hostility from you.

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

They do it because they can get away with it. It's that simple.

Now try and fix it.

They do it because they can make money at it....

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

so i get approved to upload - as do 10 million other people on my network how do you think my isp can sit and monitor us all 365/24/7? no isp could possibly have those kind of resources.

Sorry I'm not with you, why should an ISP have 10 million people uploading to them. Not saying it does not happen but can you explain please.

Of course I'm talking about an ISP that is publishing content from it's uploaders, from hosting companies to Tube sites. Maybe it would not work, but I doubt if the Piracy Summit will come up with anything. This industry does not have the balls to take on Pirates as an industry.

I came up with something that did not work. So shoot me. After 8 years of everyone listening to the experts about how the business should be run we are where we are today. Tube sites with crap content, crap quality and crap speeds taking all the traffic. Thank God everyone listened to the experts.

More lies from Gonzo. Prove I have a trade deal with Redtube. Or is giving them a few samples a trade deal in your book. You say I backed out on an agreement and then lie and lie instead of proving yourself right. I'm challenging you to tell me here what the agreement was and where, when and how we made it. If you're right I will stick to it.

If you're wrong I will tell you how you're wrong. I doubt if you will tell me.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Sorry I'm not with you, why should an ISP have 10 million people uploading to them. Not saying it does not happen but can you explain please.

Of course I'm talking about an ISP that is publishing content from it's uploaders, from hosting companies to Tube sites. Maybe it would not work, but I doubt if the Piracy Summit will come up with anything. This industry does not have the balls to take on Pirates as an industry.

I came up with something that did not work. So shoot me. After 8 years of everyone listening to the experts about how the business should be run we are where we are today. Tube sites with crap content, crap quality and crap speeds taking all the traffic. Thank God everyone listened to the experts.

More lies from Gonzo. Prove I have a trade deal with Redtube. Or is giving them a few samples a trade deal in your book. You say I backed out on an agreement and then lie and lie instead of proving yourself right. I'm challenging you to tell me here what the agreement was and where, when and how we made it. If you're right I will stick to it.

If you're wrong I will tell you how you're wrong. I doubt if you will tell me.

Continue to talk out both sides of your neck Paul.

Eveyone here knows that its not my practice to lie just to call bullshit on someone.

And then most everyone here can read between the lines on why I know your credibility to be lacking as well.

Is it about time for your lecture on how traffic doesnt matter in this business either?

[buggerlugs]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Sorry I'm not with you, why should an ISP have 10 million people uploading to them. Not saying it does not happen but can you explain please.

I explained earlier. Even everyday non-noticable stuff requires uploading.
OS updates, software calling home, e-mail sending, online gaming etc etc.

Try this:
Turn your computer on in a morning and do nothing, go back a few hours later and see how much data you have actually uploaded while you were not even there.

Thats how an isp gets 10 million people uploading