Americans: You have te right to bear arms

[RawAlex]

Not matter how stupid the idea, the supreme court finally decides that a confusing and run-on sentence is in fact two seperate thoughts, and as such, you can all go out and buy huge ass handguns for "protection of the state".

The US sinks another inch deeper into the muck.

[LAJ]

UGH... just fuckin great.

[Hell Puppy]

Careful, I haven't used my once a year gun control post yet.

I also only post once a year on abortion and religion. Sometimes I work all 3 into a single post.

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by LAJ

UGH... just fuckin great.

Don't worry Jay....doesn't mean you HAVE to carry a gun.
You're welcome to go around nekked as much as you want.

(I'll keep carrying mine though, thank you very much.)

[Nymph]

My husband say's an armed society is a polite society. The problem is not gun control, it's criminal control. A criminal by deffinition does not obey the law, so laws only effect the law abiding people.

If someone doesn't want to own/carry a gun fine, that's their choice....no one is telling them they have to.

If I want to own/carry a gun, then that's my choice. We now own and have securely in our gun safe, 13 hand guns (1 semi-automatic, 3 double action revolvers, 9 single action revolvers), 8 shotguns (2 of which are for sale), and 3 rifles....and surprisingly, we've never killed anyone with any of them.

[RawAlex]

Originally Posted by Nymph

My husband say's an armed society is a polite society. The problem is not gun control, it's criminal control. A criminal by deffinition does not obey the law, so laws only effect the law abiding people.

If someone doesn't want to own/carry a gun fine, that's their choice....no one is telling them they have to.

If I want to own/carry a gun, then that's my choice. We now own and have securely in our gun safe, 13 hand guns (1 semi-automatic, 3 double action revolvers, 9 single action revolvers), 8 shotguns (2 of which are for sale), and 3 rifles....and surprisingly, we've never killed anyone with any of them.

I have to ask the obvious question: What the heck so you need 24 guns for?

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

I have to ask the obvious question: What the heck so you need 24 guns for?

Watch Cabin Fever

[Nymph]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

I have to ask the obvious question: What the heck so you need 24 guns for?

Only 1 is actually mine. The Ruger Blackhawk 357 magnum single action.

Three are my 13 year old son's...1 he inherited from my daddy, 1 from his father's dad, and one my husband bought him for the classes he takes in gun safety & shooting.

All the others are my husbands, and he is a hunter, so that explains the shotguns & rifle. The hand guns are mostly kept for appreciation $ value...kinda nice when you can sell one and double or triple your money

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

I have to ask the obvious question: What the heck so you need 24 guns for?

Do you ask that when someone has 24 golf balls?

How about, "why do you ask?"
How about, "because she wants them?"
Why does it matter "how many" someone has?
It's bad enough we have to register them, and we can be criminally prosecuted, if some jackass steals them and we don't report it to the right agency. And then we go through the indignity of all these questions again.


But let me give you the real easy answer that you peaceniks never seem to get: Because THEY have them. "They" being anyone, government, or civilian that wishes to do us (me) harm. At the "core" of the "American way," Is the innate right to be at equal footing with anyone, anywhere in the world.
And while I think most Americans don't go looking for a fight, we simply don't bend a knee to anyone.

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

I have to ask the obvious question: What the heck so you need 24 guns for?

Excellent investments actually. They never go down in value

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by Nymph

8 shotguns (2 of which are for sale)

Mossberg 500 per chance? Looking for one of them

[Nymph]

Originally Posted by sarettah

Mossberg 500 per chance? Looking for one of them

Nope, sorry sweetie they are a Stoeger Uplander 20 guage side by side, and a Stevens 411 12 guage side by side.

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Not matter how stupid the idea, the supreme court finally decides that a confusing and run-on sentence is in fact two seperate thoughts, and as such, you can all go out and buy huge ass handguns for "protection of the state".

The US sinks another inch deeper into the muck.

So, I guess the Supreme court agrees with my interpretation.....as was discussed earlier?

Yea...that's right. You "fellers" just stay on your side of the line........and keep the noise down.

[DannyCox]

Personally, I don't really care about this as it has little to do with me. I'm not against guns at all, when thought of and used correctly. People tend to forget that Canada also has a hunting culture and on a per capita basis, and excluding hand guns, we have more guns that people in the US do. But those are rifles and shotguns primarily used for hunting.

We just don't have a gun fetish up here as people tend to have in the US. Guns are just thought of as tools, and nothing more. When not in use, they are put safely away, and never even considered for personal defense. People don't sit around talking about there guns, and listing everything they have, it just isn't at all important enough to discuss. Hunters will always talk more about the hunt, than the guns they carried.

What scared me was when I was living down in Salt Lake City and Carol and I were walking around West Valley Mall. Here comes Mall Security, which was an 18 year old, pimply faced kid caring a Baretta side arm! I then found out that the son of one of the guys I worked with was intellectually slow yet he also was able to find work as an armed security guard at 19 years old.

I've never believed in actually carrying a gun for self-defense, or keeping a loaded gun in the house. I always thought that people that carry are really just looking for an excuse to use it. The statistics do show that gun cultures like the US have a much higher rate of gun deaths than countries without that culture. We aren't talking a little bit higher, but much, much higher. The US murder rate is almost equal to that of a third world country with a culture of violence!

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by DannyCox

....What scared me was when I was living down in Salt Lake City and Carol and I were walking around West Valley Mall. Here comes Mall Security, which was an 18 year old, pimply faced kid caring a Baretta side arm! I then found out that the son of one of the guys I worked with was intellectually slow yet he also was able to find work as an armed security guard at 19 years old.

I've never believed in actually carrying a gun for self-defense, or keeping a loaded gun in the house. I always thought that people that carry are really just looking for an excuse to use it. The statistics do show that gun cultures like the US have a much higher rate of gun deaths than countries without that culture. We aren't talking a little bit higher, but much, much higher. The US murder rate is almost equal to that of a third world country with a culture of violence!

You're making the point. Pimply faced has it. So we do too. You are right about the culture though. I won't deny that. As I said earlier, Americans don't "bend" well. I know I don't. In 22 years of carrying mine, I've never "looked" for an opportunity to use it. In fact, I've dreaded the though of ever having to. I get upset when I run over a critter on the road. I certainly don't want to kill anyone, or anything.
But, and this is the important point, I don't Ever want to be in the position where MY LIFE is at the whim of psycho. One of my closest friends owns a Pharmacy, and some wacko came in there with a gun to steal drugs. Held him at gunpoint. Dude is out walking the streets today because of the ineffectual law enforcement. And they KNEW who it was. I assure you, that will never happen again. Ever.

[carol.prime]

It's really a self-defense but it should have the necessary documents. This will help to ensure that the owner won't do something wrong.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by carol.prime

It's really a self-defense but it should have the necessary documents. This will help to ensure that the owner won't do something wrong.

Like stealing google images for paid designs?

[bluemoney]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Like stealing google images for paid designs?

That explains the bullet holes in Sponge Bob!

[Hell Puppy]

First off, I'd rather have a gun and not need it than need it and not have it.

I also think the SCOTUS got this one right. They looked at not only the wording but the context and frame of mind of the founding fathers. My favorite amendments are 1,2 and 10. Why? Those are the ones put in there to protect the people from governments.

Guns aren't the problem, crminals are. More specitically in the U.S. we protect and caudle our criminals too much. We also try to protect people from themselves, and by doing so we're permitting people who are too stupid to support themselves over breed and fill up inner cities with uneducated undisciplined, unmotivated youth who have no respect for law and actually view prison as perhaps a better option than living at home. Jail gets you 3 hots and a cot, many dont have that at home.

Additional gun control is meaningless. If you cant effectively enforce the laws you have, all you do is create hassle for the honest man looking to use the gun for sport or self defense. Ban all guns! Ok, again, you take them from the law abiding citizens, what's your plan to get them out of the hands of the criminals?

Dont address symptoms go for the root cause.

What would I do? I'd take it the other way. First thing, it becomes legal to shoot anyone who breaks into your home whether they are armed or not. Ditto for your vehicle. Let's thin out some of the crackheads doing home invasions and car jackings and terrorizing people over pocket money.

Second, stop the breeding. You have a child and want government support for it, you get your ass spade or neutered so you dont have any more. It can be reversed when you stop taking those checks.

Third, prison should really suck. Bring back the chain gang. Those rural roads that only get attention every 30 years after they're falling apart, here's your free labor to fix it. Make it less attractive

Finally, get the kids who do not want to learn out of the schools so they are not a distraction to those who do. You'll also lure better teachers if they aren't living in fear when they turn their back on an inner city class full of hood rats.

[Nymph]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

First off, I'd rather have a gun and not need it than need it and not have it.

I also think the SCOTUS got this one right. They looked at not only the wording but the context and frame of mind of the founding fathers. My favorite amendments are 1,2 and 10. Why? Those are the ones put in there to protect the people from governments.

Guns aren't the problem, crminals are. More specitically in the U.S. we protect and caudle our criminals too much. We also try to protect people from themselves, and by doing so we're permitting people who are too stupid to support themselves over breed and fill up inner cities with uneducated undisciplined, unmotivated youth who have no respect for law and actually view prison as perhaps a better option than living at home. Jail gets you 3 hots and a cot, many dont have that at home.

Additional gun control is meaningless. If you cant effectively enforce the laws you have, all you do is create hassle for the honest man looking to use the gun for sport or self defense. Ban all guns! Ok, again, you take them from the law abiding citizens, what's your plan to get them out of the hands of the criminals?

Dont address symptoms go for the root cause.

What would I do? I'd take it the other way. First thing, it becomes legal to shoot anyone who breaks into your home whether they are armed or not. Ditto for your vehicle. Let's thin out some of the crackheads doing home invasions and car jackings and terrorizing people over pocket money.

Second, stop the breeding. You have a child and want government support for it, you get your ass spade or neutered so you dont have any more. It can be reversed when you stop taking those checks.

Third, prison should really suck. Bring back the chain gang. Those rural roads that only get attention every 30 years after they're falling apart, here's your free labor to fix it. Make it less attractive

Finally, get the kids who do not want to learn out of the schools so they are not a distraction to those who do. You'll also lure better teachers if they aren't living in fear when they turn their back on an inner city class full of hood rats.

You nailed it sweetie...tell it like it is, and not how they want it to be.

If I didn't know better, I'd swear my husband stole your login and posted this himself.

[bluemoney]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

First off, I'd rather have a gun and not need it than need it and not have it.

I also think the SCOTUS got this one right. They looked at not only the wording but the context and frame of mind of the founding fathers. My favorite amendments are 1,2 and 10. Why? Those are the ones put in there to protect the people from governments.

Guns aren't the problem, crminals are. More specitically in the U.S. we protect and caudle our criminals too much. We also try to protect people from themselves, and by doing so we're permitting people who are too stupid to support themselves over breed and fill up inner cities with uneducated undisciplined, unmotivated youth who have no respect for law and actually view prison as perhaps a better option than living at home. Jail gets you 3 hots and a cot, many dont have that at home.

Additional gun control is meaningless. If you cant effectively enforce the laws you have, all you do is create hassle for the honest man looking to use the gun for sport or self defense. Ban all guns! Ok, again, you take them from the law abiding citizens, what's your plan to get them out of the hands of the criminals?

Dont address symptoms go for the root cause.

What would I do? I'd take it the other way. First thing, it becomes legal to shoot anyone who breaks into your home whether they are armed or not. Ditto for your vehicle. Let's thin out some of the crackheads doing home invasions and car jackings and terrorizing people over pocket money.

Second, stop the breeding. You have a child and want government support for it, you get your ass spade or neutered so you dont have any more. It can be reversed when you stop taking those checks.

Third, prison should really suck. Bring back the chain gang. Those rural roads that only get attention every 30 years after they're falling apart, here's your free labor to fix it. Make it less attractive

Finally, get the kids who do not want to learn out of the schools so they are not a distraction to those who do. You'll also lure better teachers if they aren't living in fear when they turn their back on an inner city class full of hood rats.

HP's Got it right! Now if we could only get him to run for Office!

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

First off, I'd rather have a gun and not need it than need it and not have it.

I also think the SCOTUS got this one right. They looked at not only the wording but the context and frame of mind of the founding fathers. My favorite amendments are 1,2 and 10. Why? Those are the ones put in there to protect the people from governments.

Guns aren't the problem, crminals are. More specitically in the U.S. we protect and caudle our criminals too much. We also try to protect people from themselves, and by doing so we're permitting people who are too stupid to support themselves over breed and fill up inner cities with uneducated undisciplined, unmotivated youth who have no respect for law and actually view prison as perhaps a better option than living at home. Jail gets you 3 hots and a cot, many dont have that at home.

Additional gun control is meaningless. If you cant effectively enforce the laws you have, all you do is create hassle for the honest man looking to use the gun for sport or self defense. Ban all guns! Ok, again, you take them from the law abiding citizens, what's your plan to get them out of the hands of the criminals?

Dont address symptoms go for the root cause.

What would I do? I'd take it the other way. First thing, it becomes legal to shoot anyone who breaks into your home whether they are armed or not. Ditto for your vehicle. Let's thin out some of the crackheads doing home invasions and car jackings and terrorizing people over pocket money.

Second, stop the breeding. You have a child and want government support for it, you get your ass spade or neutered so you dont have any more. It can be reversed when you stop taking those checks.

Third, prison should really suck. Bring back the chain gang. Those rural roads that only get attention every 30 years after they're falling apart, here's your free labor to fix it. Make it less attractive

Finally, get the kids who do not want to learn out of the schools so they are not a distraction to those who do. You'll also lure better teachers if they aren't living in fear when they turn their back on an inner city class full of hood rats.

Sing it brother!
And where do I sign up for THAT plan?
Castle doctrine all the way!

[softball]

And while I think most Americans don't go looking for a fight, we simply don't bend a knee to anyone.

Well, Emp you do actually. Iraq and Viet Nam are good examples and you did bend a knee. The fact that you use the term peacenicks says it all, really. What the hell is wrong with peace? Its guys like you that get your entire country into trouble as we have discussed many ties in the past.
Personally, I couldn't give a shit if your entire freeking country was armed to the teeth with these little pop guns. However, we have a mutual border and your "polite" society leaks these things faster than the Titanic taking on water and that effects me.
Here's the deal. If you ever had the balls as a country to automatically tack ten years onto any crime, non negotiable, for use of any fire arm and were willing to pay for said incarceration, I would sleep a little easier because the guys using the guns with bad intentions, would be locked up long enough to make them see the error of their ways and anyone trying it out on some poor doughnut store clerk, would think long and hard.
Until then, all the .357 bravado I am hearing here is just pointless chest beating. I have personally witnessed what small arms fire can actually do to a person and it ain't like the movies.
Y'all can carry tasers if you are that worried about your nasty neighbours.

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

Well, Emp you do actually. Iraq and Viet Nam are good examples and you did bend a knee. The fact that you use the term peacenicks says it all, really. What the hell is wrong with peace? Its guys like you that get your entire country into trouble as we have discussed many ties in the past.
Personally, I couldn't give a shit if your entire freeking country was armed to the teeth with these little pop guns. However, we have a mutual border and your "polite" society leaks these things faster than the Titanic taking on water and that effects me.
Here's the deal. If you ever had the balls as a country to automatically tack ten years onto any crime, non negotiable, for use of any fire arm and were willing to pay for said incarceration, I would sleep a little easier because the guys using the guns with bad intentions, would be locked up long enough to make them see the error of their ways and anyone trying it out on some poor doughnut store clerk, would think long and hard.
Until then, all the .357 bravado I am hearing here is just pointless chest beating. I have personally witnessed what small arms fire can actually do to a person and it ain't like the movies.
Y'all can carry tasers if you are that worried about your nasty neighbours.

You are such an idiot. And once again, trying to draw attention away from the issue at hand. The only reason you have "peace," anywhere in the world, is because "Guys like us," are willing to step up when you pussies won't.
How do you make "peace" with a Hitler? With a Saddam Hussein? With a North Korea? With a Khmr Rouge? How did those countries feel when the Iron curtain closed over them? How is "peace" working out for Darfur?
How do people like you stand by and watch that shit, speaking "peace?"
Makes my blood boil. I have ZERO tolerance for rape, murder, and worse of the women and children of the world. If it were up to me, the marines would have already landed. Following a surgical strike of the entire political power structure. Argue your "peace" to those people, pal. All your mealy mouth "sanctions," and "niceties" hasn't done much, now has it? How many have to be tortured and killed?

You live in the shadow of our protection. But for it, you would have been "subjected" long ago. You can squawk about it all you want. We don't expect you to thank us for it. Hell, we don't even expect you to shut up about it. But don't ever imagine we don't all know what the real score is.

[DannyCox]

Originally Posted by EmporerEJ

The only reason you have "peace," anywhere in the world, is because "Guys like us," are willing to step up when you pussies won't.

WOW! What a totally insensitive thing to say. Canadians have fought in every war the US was involved in this past century, and even more that the US stayed away from. The Canadian Armed Forces have been involved in more Peacekeeping missions than any other country in the world, and we have paid dearly for that. We are still the leaders in those types of missions.

Our troops are dying in Afghanistan, and they are only there to support the effort started by the US, and then almost dropped by the US so Bush could get his Iraq fix and get even more Americans killed.

Please think before you post. Our soldiers fight and die, right alongside yours, and have for well over a hundred years. To call them "pussies" is a great insult, and would garner you an immediate slap in the face in person (although, I'd probably get shot)

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by DannyCox

WOW! What a totally insensitive thing to say. Canadians have fought in every war the US was involved in this past century, and even more that the US stayed away from. The Canadian Armed Forces have been involved in more Peacekeeping missions than any other country in the world, and we have paid dearly for that. We are still the leaders in those types of missions.

Our troops are dying in Afghanistan, and they are only there to support the effort started by the US, and then almost dropped by the US so Bush could get his Iraq fix and get even more Americans killed.

Please think before you post. Our soldiers fight and die, right alongside yours, and have for well over a hundred years. To call them "pussies" is a great insult, and would garner you an immediate slap in the face in person (although, I'd probably get shot)

Sorry Danny.....not directed at all Canucks. Just the "pussy peaceniks."

[RawAlex]

Originally Posted by EmporerEJ

Sorry Danny.....not directed at all Canucks. Just the "pussy peaceniks."

Nice try. If this was GFY, you would get an "epic fail" for that post. Actually, you sound like one of those "reporters" on Fox "news"...if we don't agree with you, throw out the most extreme insult possible and make us argue from way over there.

Your personal possession of a handgun has nothing to do with war or peace. If it did, you would have less argument from most people. if you were actually helping to repel an invading force, or kill terrorists in the streets, you might actually have support.

You aren't doing any of that, so why support you?

Nobody here has addressed my simple questions: Outside of killing or threatening to kill, what use is a hand gun? Where do criminals get handguns from?

It isn't about war, or being a peacenik or anything like that. Focus. I know you can do it.

[softball]

Originally Posted by EmporerEJ

You are such an idiot. And once again, trying to draw attention away from the issue at hand. The only reason you have "peace," anywhere in the world, is because "Guys like us," are willing to step up when you pussies won't.
How do you make "peace" with a Hitler? With a Saddam Hussein? With a North Korea? With a Khmr Rouge? How did those countries feel when the Iron curtain closed over them? How is "peace" working out for Darfur?
How do people like you stand by and watch that shit, speaking "peace?"
Makes my blood boil. I have ZERO tolerance for rape, murder, and worse of the women and children of the world. If it were up to me, the marines would have already landed. Following a surgical strike of the entire political power structure. Argue your "peace" to those people, pal. All your mealy mouth "sanctions," and "niceties" hasn't done much, now has it? How many have to be tortured and killed?

You live in the shadow of our protection. But for it, you would have been "subjected" long ago. You can squawk about it all you want. We don't expect you to thank us for it. Hell, we don't even expect you to shut up about it. But don't ever imagine we don't all know what the real score is.

How do you make "peace" with a Hitler?

Well we were there first trying to kill that mother fucker while "you" were making money out of the whole thing. It was only when you got your ass pricked at pearl, did you dare to jump in. We were getting killed. You were dancing to Glen Miller. So shut the fuck up, cracker. And no we do not live under your umbrella of protection, we live under the threat of retribution by those who would fuck you up. Just remember when you guys were so scared on 9/11 you would have let all your airliners crash and burn, just in case....we saved their American asses. Or did that thought escape you. Don't fuck with your friends and don't try and bully them or they may turn and bite you on the bum. Fucking ignorant wanker. Learn your place in the world and deal with it. You are a dying breed and for very good reason.
The only reason your gas isn't double the price is because of NAFTA and I fucking hate that. Fortunately water is not protected by NAFTA, and that is way more valuable than oil. Then whatcha gonno do, loudmouth?

[RawAlex]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

The only reason your gas isn't double the price is because of NAFTA and I fucking hate that. Fortunately water is not protected by NAFTA, and that is way more valuable than oil. Then whatcha gonno do, loudmouth?

I suspect that is when the right to bear arms will turn into the right to invade Canada.

[softball]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

I suspect that is when the right to bear arms will turn into the right to invade Canada.

Guys like Emp always consider that as an option. But it is impossible. We have way too many friends. It comes with being reasonable which Emp misinterprets for weakness. Never threaten what you cannot deliver. Just like Emp has been promising his jerk off device for the last ten years and nobody uses it. His ego is writing checks his body can't cash.

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

I suspect that is when the right to bear arms will turn into the right to invade Canada.

Invade? Why?
We get it for the asking. Invasion isn't necessary.

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

Well we were there first trying to kill that mother fucker while "you" were making money out of the whole thing. It was only when you got your ass pricked at pearl, did you dare to jump in. We were getting killed. You were dancing to Glen Miller. So shut the fuck up, cracker. And no we do not live under your umbrella of protection, we live under the threat of retribution by those who would fuck you up. Just remember when you guys were so scared on 9/11 you would have let all your airliners crash and burn, just in case....we saved their American asses. Or did that thought escape you. Don't fuck with your friends and don't try and bully them or they may turn and bite you on the bum. Fucking ignorant wanker. Learn your place in the world and deal with it. You are a dying breed and for very good reason.
The only reason your gas isn't double the price is because of NAFTA and I fucking hate that. Fortunately water is not protected by NAFTA, and that is way more valuable than oil. Then whatcha gonno do, loudmouth?

It's got to be the cold that makes you think these things, right? Maybe the O2 depravation?
I think the best bet is you just stay up there.

[RawAlex]

The wild west was an "armed society" and it was about as rude as most modern american inner-cities are these days. Weapons do nothing but allow bullies to do their work faster, and for idiots to think they are protected and stand up to the bullies. The outcome, regardless, is death, wholesale.

99% of guns will never be used to kill anyone. But any gun used for it's true intended purpose will. Otherwise, it is just a macho fashion accessory.

[RawAlex]

Guns aren't the problem, crminals are

This is one of my favorite non-starters in the whole gun debate.

Ever seen a drug raid? Drugs are pretty calm things, they are just chemicals or weeds or whatever, sitting in little bags. In theory, selling little bags of powder isn't exactly risky for anyone else except the idiots snorting or injecting them. Yet when police raid a drug dealer's house or operation, they go in with 10 - 20 guys, armed to the teeth.

Why? Not because of the drugs, but because of the guns.

Police in the US are having a very hard time fighting crime because they are having to do everything in overwhelming numbers, because they fear that the car they just pulled over might have an armed man inside. Getting pulled over in lala land, and you might have 5 cruisers on scene for a traffic ticket (especially if you are DW.

The presence of guns and the likelihood that the suspects are armed means that the police have to work in gangs. Without the fear of guns, the police could be much more effective in dealing with crime.

Look at Mexico. The police are underpaid and the criminals are well armed (and willing to kill police and judges to keep things there way) How far do you think the US is from this? IMHO it is right on the edge of happening, already 585 police officers have been shot and killed on duty in the last 10 years ( http://www.nleomf.com/TheMemorial/Facts/causes.htm ) and approximately 60,000 a year are assaulted ( http://www.nleomf.com/TheMemorial/Facts/daifacts.htm ) with 15k average injuries as a result.

You may feel safer because you are armed, but you are only armed because you think everyone else is. In the end, you are only pouring gas on the fire.

[Nymph]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

This is one of my favorite non-starters in the whole gun debate.

Ever seen a drug raid? Drugs are pretty calm things, they are just chemicals or weeds or whatever, sitting in little bags. In theory, selling little bags of powder isn't exactly risky for anyone else except the idiots snorting or injecting them. Yet when police raid a drug dealer's house or operation, they go in with 10 - 20 guys, armed to the teeth.

Why? Not because of the drugs, but because of the guns.

Police in the US are having a very hard time fighting crime because they are having to do everything in overwhelming numbers, because they fear that the car they just pulled over might have an armed man inside. Getting pulled over in lala land, and you might have 5 cruisers on scene for a traffic ticket (especially if you are DW.

The presence of guns and the likelihood that the suspects are armed means that the police have to work in gangs. Without the fear of guns, the police could be much more effective in dealing with crime.

Look at Mexico. The police are underpaid and the criminals are well armed (and willing to kill police and judges to keep things there way) How far do you think the US is from this? IMHO it is right on the edge of happening, already 585 police officers have been shot and killed on duty in the last 10 years ( http://www.nleomf.com/TheMemorial/Facts/causes.htm ) and approximately 60,000 a year are assaulted ( http://www.nleomf.com/TheMemorial/Facts/daifacts.htm ) with 15k average injuries as a result.

You may feel safer because you are armed, but you are only armed because you think everyone else is. In the end, you are only pouring gas on the fire.

Criminals by deffinition do not obey the law.

Excuse me, but last I checked, drug dealers are criminals since they do not obey the law.

What gun law would you propose that a criminal would follow? Oh wait, there is that nasty "law" word in that sentence, so forget that question.

Ok, so say a law is inacted that takes all guns away...no matter what kind, and for what purpose they were originally intended. Do you seriously believe a criminal is not going to find a way to procure a gun & ammo to conduct his/her business? At what risk does this put the rest of us in with no means of protection? At what risk does this put the police?

Most guns are manufactured overseas. There doesn't seem to be a problem getting illegal drugs in this country, why do you think it would be any different with guns? The US is not the ruler of the world, we can't make all other countries stop manufacturing guns, and more than we can make other countries stop the drug trade in thier own country that sends it to us.

IMHO it is the people that are afraid of guns, don't know how to properly use them, or are still living with the "Bambi" memory from childhood that are against them.

[softball]

IMHO it is the people that are afraid of guns, don't know how to properly use them, or are still living with the "Bambi" memory from childhood that are against them.

I'm not afraid of guns. I am afraid of people like you having them. Lots and lots of them. For no reason other than fear. And foreign guns crossing my border is a problem. I live in a gang town where there are targetted killings weekly if not daily. There is a gang war going on and I would bet you these guys are getting guns stolen from citizens like you and smuggled here.

[Nymph]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

I'm not afraid of guns. I am afraid of people like you having them. Lots and lots of them. For no reason other than fear. And foreign guns crossing my border is a problem. I live in a gang town where there are targetted killings weekly if not daily. There is a gang war going on and I would bet you these guys are getting guns stolen from citizens like you and smuggled here.

There are responsible gun owners, and irresponsable gun owners. It's the latter you need to worry about, not ones like me.

I agree, illegal foreign guns are a problem for everyone, in every country. What's the solution? I'm afraid there is not going to be a resonable solution that will please everyone (pro gun & anti gun), and not take away the rights of the people in the process.

So what are your gun laws up in the great white north anyways?

[softball]

Originally Posted by Nymph

There are responsible gun owners, and irresponsable gun owners. It's the latter you need to worry about, not ones like me.

I agree, illegal foreign guns are a problem for everyone, in every country. What's the solution? I'm afraid there is not going to be a resonable solution that will please everyone (pro gun & anti gun), and not take away the rights of the people in the process.

So what are your gun laws up in the great white north anyways?

Not that I pay too much attention to it, but long guns are legal, hand guns are not. In fact I have travelled more than most, and I have been very few places where the citizenry is packing. Mainly bongo countries like the Philippines.
The Europeans seem to do fine without their saturday night specials.

The right to bear arms is a 250 year old law that should be amended. Those guys had no idea where it would lead. It was to protect the republic when a militia could do that very thing if there was an invasion from Canada or Mexico. That threat is long gone, so should that "right".

"So then I went and bought myself a Colt 45
Called a peacemaker but I never knew why
Never knew why, I didn't understand
Cause Mama said the pistol is the devil's right hand"

[Nymph]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

Not that I pay too much attention to it, but long guns are legal, hand guns are not. In fact I have travelled more than most, and I have been very few places where the citizenry is packing. Mainly bongo countries like the Philippines.
The Europeans seem to do fine without their saturday night specials.

The right to bear arms is a 250 year old law that should be amended. Those guys had no idea where it would lead. It was to protect the republic when a militia could do that very thing if there was an invasion from Canada or Mexico. That threat is long gone, so should that "right".

"So then I went and bought myself a Colt 45
Called a peacemaker but I never knew why
Never knew why, I didn't understand
Cause Mama said the pistol is the devil's right hand"

So your gun laws aren't obeyed by criminals either?

And your borders are just as pourus as ours.

[softball]

Originally Posted by Nymph

So your gun laws aren't obeyed by criminals either?

And your borders are just as pourus as ours.

Unfortunately we have one of the longest borders in the world. It is impossible to prevent any kind of traffic moving north or south. It is way too long and way to desolate. What worries me is the huge volume of pop guns and heavier weaponry that is absorbed across our border from the US. I would rather have a friendly relationship where we export you oil and marjuana, and you export us Orange Juice.
I freeking hate the idea of uneducated morons being able to purchase concealable weapons. God made some men big and some men small and Smith and Wesson made them all the same size and that is what is scarey.
In other countries I have seen 13 year olds with rpg's and AK's and have seen the damage that a brain dead kid can do with explosive devices and it ain't pretty. If your kids get hold of your weapons it is dangerous. And if they are locked up safe and tight, what exactly is the point?

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

The Europeans seem to do fine without their saturday night specials.

The right to bear arms is a 250 year old law that should be amended. Those guys had no idea where it would lead. It was to protect the republic when a militia could do that very thing if there was an invasion from Canada or Mexico. That threat is long gone, so should that "right".
"

Ya know, your childish view of the world is comical. It's not a "law," it's a RIGHT. A right that founded this country, and has sustained it through all the world's problems. And, was instrumental in removing a tyrannical ruler, who seemed to think we were something to be exploited.


How quickly we forget.....The "Europeans," as you put them, would not have guns, save for us, and our "war mentality." They would be speaking German, and having No rights. we tried to stay out of that war too, if you recall. But people that didn't believe in peace didn't give us that choice.

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

I'm not afraid of guns. I am afraid of people like you having them. Lots and lots of them. For no reason other than fear. And foreign guns crossing my border is a problem. I live in a gang town where there are targetted killings weekly if not daily. There is a gang war going on and I would bet you these guys are getting guns stolen from citizens like you and smuggled here.

Guess you best move to the magical land of "peace."
They don't have to get our guns...they can walk in any Canadian home (Which are usually unlocked) and procure the guns at home. No need to cross the border and take a risk.

Let's turn that around? How about YOU secure your weapons a little better, so people don't steal them in your unlocked homes, bring them here, and commit crimes?

[Toby]

While all this banter may be entertaining it's not likely things will change here any time soon. The recent court ruling should not be a surprise, nor will it change much. The right to bear arms is one of the fundamental concepts that this country was founded on and something that "We The People" aren't likely to give up without a fight.

Personally, I don't and won't own a hand gun. The only way they're effective as personal protection is to carry one ALL of the time and I don't like to carry shit. I rarely even take my cell phone when I leave the house.

[softball]

Carrying a hand gun is a form of paranoia.

[softball]

as far as criminals having guns, that is moot. It is a chicken or egg situation and vicious cycle that needs to be broken.

[DannyCox]

It's actually quite easy to get a handgun in Canada. First you must take a Canadian Firearms Safety Course and pass a written test. This is required for the ownership of any type of firearm. Once you pass the test, you can then apply for a Firearms License. As long as you don't have a criminal record, that will be easily obtained. With that license, you can now buy a rifle or shotgun.

For handguns, you just need to join a gun club with a firing range. With your club membership card and your license, you can now go buy a handgun...you just can't take it with you yet. You get the information on the handgun and take it to the police who will give you a "Letter Of Conveyance" to bring the gun home. You go back with that and pick up your gun, and bring it straight home. You are not allowed to even stop for gas! Once you have the gun and wish to bring it to the gun club, you go back to the police and get another letter of conveyance which will allow you to bring the gun from your home to the club, and back again. While the gun is with you, you are not allowed to make any stops.

So, getting a gun legally in Canada is quite easy. The main reason more people don't have them is that we really don't care! Most Canadians don't see a need for a handgun and don't have that inherent paranoia that many Americans have from being part of a gun culture. Overall, we think of guns as just tools and not as weapons.

For more information, have a look at http://www.canadianlawsite.ca/gunlaws.htm

[Buckwheat]

Hahahahahahah . . . . The “Snow Mexicans” are pussies! hahahahahahahah

[Hell Puppy]

I can appreciate idealism.

But the reality is in the U.S. the criminals have guns. They also have no respect for life or personal property. Any plans to disarm honest law abiding citizens should include a plan to disarm these guys first.

Until then, I'll keep mine, thank you very much.

Paranoid? Yeah, I probably am, I also lock my doors and have a burglar alarm. For some reason, I seem to think not everyone is honest and might decide they want some of my stuff. I know we all work in the adult business and do not know of anyone who would be dishonest, but what the heck.

I have no desire to shoot anyone. But break into my house in the middle of the night, and I will defend myself and my property.

The real issue at the heart of all of this is individual rights, freedoms and responsibility. We live in an increasingly socialist world where people do not want to take care of themselves they expect the government to do it for them. I just do not have that kind of confidence in the government's ability to execute, therefore one of those rights I'm very protective of is my right to defend myself and my property against the criminal element. Sorry, but there's a couple of home invasions a month in my zipcode, and it's not like I live in the ghetto. So from where I sent the government isn't doing a good enough job to feel I should just let them take care of it.

[RawAlex]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

But the reality is in the U.S. the criminals have guns. They also have no respect for life or personal property. Any plans to disarm honest law abiding citizens should include a plan to disarm these guys first.

Just a dumb question, but where did the criminals get their guns? Do they melt down manhole covers and turn them into guns?

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Just a dumb question, but where did the criminals get their guns? Do they melt down manhole covers and turn them into guns?

Stay on subject. Would a weapons ban make their guns magically disappear or return into the shape of a manhole cover?