Max Hardcore Trial Outtake - "You Look Better with Puke on Your Face"

[RawAlex]

Originally Posted by Trixie

Clarification: of course I support studios, directors, actors and actresses who insist upon condoms for shoots. I just don't think the industry or the government should demand it across the board.

Trixie: Part of the protection of public health is in the interest of everyone. A trade off between personal freedom and safety for the masses, like speed limits, seat belt laws, or smoking laws. You limit some of the freedoms of the masses because in the end it is better for the masses, and saves the state huge amounts of money because they don't have to clean up after things.

Don't make the mistake of mixing up your personal freedoms (you can fuck without a condom if you like, you can fuck a doorknob if you like... you are free to do so) with things like Occupational Health and Safety laws.

You can do work on your own house and you don't have to wear a hard hat. But in theory, a contractor coming to do the same may be obliged to do so. He might be obliged by law to wear steel toe boots, you may be able to wear sandles or nothing at all. That contractor may wear his fuzzy bunny slippers when he works on his own house. You have personal freedom when you do personal things, you have business liablities and rules when you do work for your business.

If condoms were made manditory for all porn shot in your state, as a business owner you would either have to comply with the law, take them to court, or face the penalties prescribed by the law if the state decides to take action. It isn't at all a question of personal freedoms, just another law about workplace safety.

[Trixie]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

It isn't at all a question of personal freedoms, just another law about workplace safety.

Not at all a question of personal freedom, eh? Not at all? Not even a little bit? Huh.

Right there is half of the foundation of where you and I do not and have never seen eye to eye and why we never will.

[RawAlex]

Originally Posted by Trixie

Not at all a question of personal freedom, eh? Not at all? Not even a little bit? Huh.

Right there is half of the foundation of where you and I do not and have never seen eye to eye and why we never will.

Like I said, your personal freedom to produce any material for your own use in any manner you choose (providing you don't break any existing laws, say by fucking children, dogs, or similar) then knock yourself out.

You and I agree entirely, your personal freedoms cannot be restricted. Neither the government nor anyone here is suggesting for a second that your personal freedoms should be limited. In fact, Max Hardcore if he produced this material for fun and gave it for free to a friend in Tampa would not be on trial today.

However, Max is operating a commercial business. He has ended up in court because of a business transaction.

In the same manner: If the state of California passed a law that said "all porn performers must wear condoms during actual penetration", then the companies producing porn would have the three choices I mentioned before.

You and I won't see eye to eye on this (or pretty much anything else) because you don't have a line that runs down the middle and seperates your personal life from your "professional" life. You also fail to catch the basic concept of personal freedoms versus business regulation, which is very important for understanding why Max is in court and not some of the people posting personal videos on newsgroups that cover the same material.

[softball]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Like I said, your personal freedom to produce any material for your own use in any manner you choose (providing you don't break any existing laws, say by fucking children, dogs, or similar) then knock yourself out.

You and I agree entirely, your personal freedoms cannot be restricted. Neither the government nor anyone here is suggesting for a second that your personal freedoms should be limited. In fact, Max Hardcore if he produced this material for fun and gave it for free to a friend in Tampa would not be on trial today.

However, Max is operating a commercial business. He has ended up in court because of a business transaction.

In the same manner: If the state of California passed a law that said "all porn performers must wear condoms during actual penetration", then the companies producing porn would have the three choices I mentioned before.

You and I won't see eye to eye on this (or pretty much anything else) because you don't have a line that runs down the middle and seperates your personal life from your "professional" life. You also fail to catch the basic concept of personal freedoms versus business regulation, which is very important for understanding why Max is in court and not some of the people posting personal videos on newsgroups that cover the same material.

Let me ask you this then. Around here the Sikhs are protesting the fact they will be forced to wear hard hats on construction sites and sawmills. They, of course wear turbans. The Sikhs are calling it a human rights code violation. They are also whinging about wearing motorcycle helmets.
How do you stand on this safety issue?

[Hammer]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

Let me ask you this then. Around here the Sikhs are protesting the fact they will be forced to wear hard hats on construction sites and sawmills. They, of course wear turbans. The Sikhs are calling it a human rights code violation. They are also whinging about wearing motorcycle helmets.
How do you stand on this safety issue?

Here's where I stand. Fuck the Sikhs and anyone else that won't follow the rules of the country they live in. If they can't figure out how to get their fucking turbans stuffed into a hardhat, they either take off the turban or find a different job or move back to their own country.

And I agree with Alex. Max Hardcore wouldn't be in the trouble he's in if he hadn't violated a law that he should have known about. Anyone that distributes extreme content or sex paraphernalia knows that there are certain areas of the country that you don't distribute to because of their community standards. Again, if you don't like the fact that there are laws and rules to follow and don't want to take the time to learn what they are or you feel your personal beliefs are being violated, get out of this business and get a safe job.

[softball]

Originally Posted by Hammer

Here's where I stand. Fuck the Sikhs and anyone else that won't follow the rules of the country they live in. If they can't figure out how to get their fucking turbans stuffed into a hardhat, they either take off the turban or find a different job or move back to their own country.

And I agree with Alex. Max Hardcore wouldn't be in the trouble he's in if he hadn't violated a law that he should have known about. Anyone that distributes extreme content or sex paraphernalia knows that there are certain areas of the country that you don't distribute to because of their community standards. Again, if you don't like the fact that there are laws and rules to follow and don't want to take the time to learn what they are or you feel your personal beliefs are being violated, get out of this business and get a safe job.

I think there is a business opportunity here. A hard hat or helmet that looks and functions like a turban. This time next year, we could be millionaires.

[Hammer]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

I think there is a business opportunity here. A hard hat or helmet that looks and functions like a turban. This time next year, we could be millionaires.

Do the hard hats have to pass any kind of testing? Otherwise I see another opportunity here as well.

[Trixie]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

You and I won't see eye to eye on this (or pretty much anything else) because you don't have a line that runs down the middle and seperates your personal life from your "professional" life. You also fail to catch the basic concept of personal freedoms versus business regulation, which is very important for understanding why Max is in court and not some of the people posting personal videos on newsgroups that cover the same material.

And you fail to catch the basic concept of capitalism, of obscenity laws (even if he weren't making money what he does could still be found illegal, it would just lower his chances of being caught), and of the way that they intersect in porn cases to create a uniquely discriminatory system that is UNPARALLELED in our country. You also fail to recognize the grey area created by all of this intersecting with SEX which is obviously different and more personal than roofing or taxi driving. You fail to figure in consent or gender issues or the fact that what is motivating all of this legal bullshit is not people's safety or "business", it's people's morals and asthetics. Religion and personal taste are not supposed to figure into laws like this.