Will Criminals In This Industry Bring It Down?

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by Shelleehale

Right now it looks like some of these mainstream scammers will be taking a lot of attention off adult and finally the blame will be shared; actually the way it looks to me the blame meter really goes to mainstream right now. I am trying to follow the money trail with the cj/zango stuff if anyone can help email me... shellee@pornafia.com

Shellee

Oh rest assured there is everything from guys who'll take a rather unethical shortcut to outright thieves in both courts.

There are a couple of differences though. The mainstream guys dont tend to be quite as shameless or prolific. Most mainstream ventures are created with an exit strategy in mind from day one. That exit plan is typically buy out or IPO. For both of those you have to be able to withstand a lot of scrutiny at disclosure time.

Whereas in adult, it's very very tough to exit. Early on we saw a lot of business people come to adult simply because that was the easiest place to monetize internet action. The playing field has levelled quite a bit though, the easy money is gone. There are still business people here, but they're the minority.

Instead, if you look at the sheer number of participants you'll find a ton of college age kids who are quite content to work for beer money in their spare time. And if they ever make enough money to buy a BMW, they consider themselves a success.

Another group you find are those who for whatever reason do not fit in the typical 9-5 corporate world. It could be they just aren't responsible enough to show up for work every day. They could be rebellious. They may not be able to pass a piss test, but for some reason they cant simply go get a corporate job.

Inside both of these groups you find people who are willing to take some chances and may be predisposed to ignore the law and ethics and do what's easiest.

The really dangerous ones to the business though are those who are calculating. They know right from wrong, they are very smart, but they come in the door with a business plan of get as much as you can any way you can and get out. The FTC is ineffective against these type operations and it goes all the way back to Crescent and Xpics. What's a $30 million dollar fine and payback if you made $150 million over the same period? As I said in another thread, it's cost of doing business.

[Greg B]

Well said Hell Puppy.

However, don't count the authorities out. They're well aware of the bs that goes on in this business but due to higher priorities they don't pounce as much. They have terrorists and mad scientists and ex wives to deal with.

The worst thing is that due to the stupidity of some message boards that have allowed racial epithets to be used WHILE the members were doing business and representing companies the shit has hit the fan. Whether you're in porn or not, if you use racial epithets while on the fucking job you DOOM the company you work with or represent.

Sigwhore? Using racial epithets while promoting someone's program? Busted!

Don't worry when some of these sponsors realize how fucking stupid their sigwhores have been the past few years you'll see not only sponsors cracking down but you'll see processing companies and hosting companies likewise. Also making threats on boards is considered one of three types of felonies. Just had a meeting earlier this evening with that shit with a couple of the fellas at the Veteran's group.

See, "even in jest" doesn't hold water if you're a business and you're not the press. Your protections are shakey there and since everything is archived many assholes still have several years for the statute of limitations to wear off. I'm watching dudes fall off as I type.

Fuck em'. They're scumbags who got caught in their own shit.

[gonzo]

I dont know about racial slurs but we sure did have a lot of fun just raising hell here on Oprano a few years ago.

Look at the alexa ranking from a couple years past.

Im certain some of my public battles drew a lot of traffic to this board.
Its ok though that is what I was being paid to do.

People are drawn to a train wreck and add to it that I was fucking back with folks that were due some payback . . . well you get the idea.

I dont have the time or the energy to do that any longer. And in all honesty its much more damaging these days to state the facts and ask well thought out questions.

Every once in a while you might see me raising some hell on here.
A feller cant deny his roots.

But if you are serious about the legal aspects and getting involved to a greater degree I recommend my friend Shellee Hale's board at pornafia.org.

Shes working on some good stuff right now involving theft from affiliates.

Technology has seriously out paced the legal system and I beleive she will help make some much needed changes.

Its also the reason many of us are watching closely for the results of the Naked Rhino vs. NATS lawsuit.

[RawAlex]

it is also why everyone is watching that CJ lawsuit as well. Most program owners never considered that their affiliates make up a potential class for a class action suit. I think companies like AFF are risking finding this out at some point. One successful suit will lead to tons more.

I don't think you will find a single program out there that doesn't have some sort of either overt defect in their tours (such as losing codes or accidental hard code links), engages in shaving / milking / affiliate adjustments, or purchases traffic / knowingly accepts traffic from sources that interfere with the affiliate / program relationship.

Example, if you run a program, and you pay zango to pop up on your signup pages, you are competing directly with your affiliates and in fact are attempting to profit from their work without paying.

Example, if you run a program, and you are aware that an affiliate is doing the same popup over join with Zango...

Example, if your software has the potential (coded into it) to shave or modify affiliate stats to reflect anything other than the true sales...

Example, if your program is coded to lose affiliate links in certain cases or has hard coded links to replace your affiliate links in certain manners.

My favorite one right now is the "pop over" tour. You click your affiliate link, you get the tour, you click any link on the tour, and the next page is opened in a new window, and the original window is blurred and redirected to another program or site without your affiliate code. If your user has a popup blocker, you could end up losing 100% of your sales.

There are so many ways that programs work AGAINST their affiliates, and each of these methods brings potential for class action.

[Sexyteaser]

Well here is what I experienced the last couple of days. Left a message for Tom Vadnais at CJ and the next morning CJ showed up on my caller ID at 7AM when I answered they hung up. The next morning I got another call this time it was someone that claimed Tom asked him to call me - after a brief conversation not giving up too much of what I know it became clear when I was told they have 10 of the best forensic computer specialist that they are fully aware of what is going on... I then found spyware from CJ on my computer and don't know who spent most of last night trying to hack my computer, but I will find out - I ended up just unplugging it from the router after about 600 pings. I feel like I am in the movie "The Net."

I think the 50-100 billion dollars being stolen every year is a hell of a lot more obscene than the content they are trying to prosecute - I really wish someone would get their priorities straight.

[softball]

Originally Posted by gonzo

I dont know about racial slurs but we sure did have a lot of fun just raising hell here on Oprano a few years ago.

Look at the alexa ranking from a couple years past.

Im certain some of my public battles drew a lot of traffic to this board.
Its ok though that is what I was being paid to do.

People are drawn to a train wreck and add to it that I was fucking back with folks that were due some payback . . . well you get the idea.

I dont have the time or the energy to do that any longer. And in all honesty its much more damaging these days to state the facts and ask well thought out questions.

Every once in a while you might see me raising some hell on here.
A feller cant deny his roots.

But if you are serious about the legal aspects and getting involved to a greater degree I recommend my friend Shellee Hale's board at pornafia.org.

Shes working on some good stuff right now involving theft from affiliates.

Technology has seriously out paced the legal system and I beleive she will help make some much needed changes.

Its also the reason many of us are watching closely for the results of the Naked Rhino vs. NATS lawsuit.

There were public battles on Oprano? Say it ain't so.