Ray Guhn Case to Depend on Community Standards

[RawAlex]

They have very good cumshot stuff, much of it is group cumshot / bukkake stuff. I remember them doing a party at a show (in a bar, I won't mention where for obvious reasons) and that included about 20 guys dumping a load on some coed. It was a little weird to do it at a party, but there ya go.

It is pretty intense content, but that type of stuff has been around on the net for 10 years or longer. Our community standard has been met.

[Hammer]

Well Toby, I personally think you're being over confident in thinking they will be found not guilty on all counts. They were not indicted for running a run of the mill porn site they were charged with pandering and since rumor has it that they were conducting sex parties where the women were paid and the men weren't, this case isn't a slam dunk by any means.

[Rcourt64]

Originally Posted by Hammer

Well Toby, I personally think you're being over confident in thinking they will be found not guilty on all counts. They were not indicted for running a run of the mill porn site they were charged with pandering and since rumor has it that they were conducting sex parties where the women were paid and the men weren't, this case isn't a slam dunk by any means.

Pandering? Oh please now Mighty One, Thats one serious ass charge there, They'll get locked up for a looong time on that one and the rest? Well exactly like you quote "Rumors"

[EmporerEJ]

It would be incredibly bad if they were found guilty of ANY charge.

[KevinG]

Originally Posted by EmporerEJ

It would be incredibly bad if they were found guilty of ANY charge.

Exactly. However, I agree with Hammer. Larry is going to have to work hard for this one.

Originally Posted by Toby
The wheels of justice do seem to move rather slowly.

Yeah, the trial doesn't start until May 08. I'd just want to get this shit over with.

[Hammer]

Originally Posted by Rcourt64

Pandering? Oh please now Mighty One, Thats one serious ass charge there

Of course it's a serious charge and when I said "rumored" I just said it so it didn't sound like I was saying they were guilty but it is definitely the charge that the case in hinged on and the reason they were charged with racketeering and not just obscenity.

The thing that will suck for all of us is if they are found guilty of pandering because even if they are found innocent of obscenity, the government will claim it as a victory.

[RawAlex]

You guys need to pay very close attention to this one. The obscenity charges are going to be very difficult to push though to a guilty verdict. There is a fair amount of stuff possible in this that could take any decision either way to higher and higher courts. Those things include important issues like the definition of community in respects to the internet, the local of "obscene speech" relative to the location of the company, the locations used to shoot, and the location of the server used to deliver the content, etc.

Further, it is important to see the implications of counts not directly related to obscenity. Just like in the Diamond Jim spam case, the government not only put the spam (the main charge) on the table, but added in things like money laundering and playing games with offshore companies and accounts. The idea always is if you can't get the main charges to stick, you still have something to get them guys locked up and charged with.

My personal feelings is that 2257 rules (the newer ones) will be used in a similar manner, where companies will be charged with obscenity (headline news!) and also see charges related to 2257 and failure to maintain records accurately or to the standards set by the government. Those sorts of back door offences give the government the chance for a win even in loss, and also gives them a lesser crime to bargain down to, assuring a "win" for their side.

It is an important part of how the opponents of porn will attempt to run all US webmasters out of business.