Mike South punks out Joanna Angel

[KevinG]

Come on now Kevin... you know she fucked up on that one just like she told all the newbies that the most important thing to do was to shoot content for 3 years instead of worrying about traffic.

1. I stand by my explanation about quoting hits and do not agree that she "fucked up", but you are entitled to your perception and opinion.

Also, if you get to know Joanna, and also have experience dealing with other porn girls, you would know that she is probably one of the most educated and intelligent of the bunch.

2. Regarding the content vs. traffic debate that arose at Cybernet, I will concede a little bit to you that she did mis-speak a little.

She didn't get the chance to correct herself in public.

She later corrected herself in private conversation, with Hammer standing there to hear it as well.

Her opinion of content vs. traffic is that, hypothetically, if you are new to the business and you have $100,000 to invest, Joanna advises that you budget about $60 - $70,000 of that towards producing your own exclusive, high quality, unique content.

I happen to agree.

I am in charge of generating traffic for BurningAngel.com and JoannaAngel.com, so you know I understand the importance of traffic.

So ... wtf do I send traffic to if there is no content.

And ... more important than that ... in my experience, I have had the greatest success in building the highest quality and highest quantity of traffic when there is a high quantity of very good exclusive content.

Here's the point:

IMO, Content comes first, then traffic. There's always a means to generate traffic if you have great content.

Anyone can disagree, but if they do, it would lead me to believe they do not really know how to generate traffic.

Not to be ranked in the top 100 thousand in Alexa tells me she aint getting millions of hits a day.

I will see what I can do to get some Chinese traffic for her.

Seriously though, it is a huge waste of time to discuss Alexa.

Alexa is quite useless if you dont know how to read those stats.

Alexa is quite useless PERIOD.

IMHO Page Rank is the most over rated and useless stat out there but we will agree to disagree.

I think you are saying that because you know me as a professional SEO, and most professional SEO people worship Google PageRank like you seem to worship Alexa.

However, let me tell you what one of my comments were to the audience when I sat on the traffic panel.

I said, "Google Page Rank means next to nothing and Alexa Rank means less than nothing."

At least we agree on something, and here is a little side note trivia for you.

Google doesn't own PageRank. Stanford University owns it and it is licensed to Google until 2011.

But I do own a copy of Repenetrator.

That's the smartest thing you said in this post ;-)

[gonzo]

I bet Im laughing about this harder than you are.

[Hammer]

Joanna is a very unique case and my concern in the newbie seminar was that her comment didn't apply to 99% of the newbies in that room. Suggesting that the average newbie needs to shoot his/her own exclusive content only applies if that newbie cares to be his own producer (most do not), or, as in her case, that newbie is going to be his/her own content (most do not).

IMO, before any newbie starts shooting his own content, especially 3 years worth, it would be a good idea to see if he/she even has what it takes to learn how to generate traffic to an adult site in the first place. Why waste time and money shooting a bunch of exclusive content if you don't know you can sell it?

The smart thing to do would be to promote someone else's sites until you think you understand what you're doing and then, if you want to produce your own content, start shooting it. Of course, that means I disagree pretty much completely, because in most cases I think traffic is far more important than content. I know plenty of webmasters that are making lots of money promoting some pretty shitty sites.

p.s. As for the Mike South comment, I'm going to stay out of that, because I know that Kevin knows what he's doing and I'm sure her site is doing quite well.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by Hammer

Joanna is a very unique case and my concern in the newbie seminar was that her comment didn't apply to 99% of the newbies in that room. Suggesting that the average newbie needs to shoot his/her own exclusive content only applies if that newbie cares to be his own producer (most do not), or, as in her case, that newbie is going to be his/her own content (most do not).

IMO, before any newbie starts shooting his own content, especially 3 years worth, it would be a good idea to see if he/she even has what it takes to learn how to generate traffic to an adult site in the first place. Why waste time and money shooting a bunch of exclusive content if you don't know you can sell it?

The smart thing to do would be to promote someone else's sites until you think you understand what you're doing and then, if you want to produce your own content, start shooting it. Of course, that means I disagree pretty much completely, because in most cases I think traffic is far more important than content. I know plenty of webmasters that are making lots of money promoting some pretty shitty sites.

p.s. As for the Mike South comment, I'm going to stay out of that, because I know that Kevin knows what he's doing and I'm sure her site is doing quite well.

That wrestler chick that was in the back of the room might whip your ass for saying that!

All in all Cybernet Expo was very informative and continues to be a month later. Sometimes its not what was said in these seminars that is as important as what you take out of them.

I think we will all agree this isnt a shitty site we are talking about to promote.

[KevinG]

Actually, what I laughed about most was at the show, hearing about all these people coming up to you two guys for the rest of the weekend being mad at you for fighting with Joanna in public. LOL!

Joanna's site is doing well, her overall business is doing well.

Let's not let the latest news get missed, which was in the original thread starting post. She just signed a contract to direct for Club Jenna, which is owned by Playboy.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm impressed.

There's a ton of new stuff in the works beyond that.

JoannaAngel.com is being re-designed this month with an anticipated re-launch for Internext in August.

A new site, Burning Angel Entertainment will coming out in a month or so, with downloadable clips from the DVDs, which have never been available online before.

The original site that kicked off Joanna's business, BurningAngel.com will be re-designed and re-launched in late Summer or early Fall.

Not bad for a 26 year old porn girl running her own business.

[KevinG]

In general, I agree with Hammer.

A newbie would be best advised to work on learning how to run a web site, get traffic to it, and then send that traffic out to money making destinations.

In this specific case though, the context of Joanna's advise was based on someone already deciding they wanted to have a pay site and that they had $100,000 to invest.

Now I have to go generate a gazillion, bazillion, trillion, million hits. Anyone know where I can buy some Chinese traffic?

[Toby]

I was at Cybernet and attended the Newbie 101 and Solo Girl Sites seminars. I think the crux of this whole issue is that Joanna's content comment was given without any preface that it only applied to someone in a similar situation to her own. For the remaining 90%+ it would actually be bad advice.

Making such a statement without first making it quite clear that it only applies under very specific circumstances was just a little bit irresponsible.

[KevinG]

Originally Posted by Toby

I was at Cybernet and attended the Newbie 101 and Solo Girl Sites seminars. I think the crux of this whole issue is that Joanna's content comment was given without any preface that it only applied to someone in a similar situation to her own. For the remaining 90%+ it would actually be bad advice.

Making such a statement without first making it quite clear that it only applies under very specific circumstances was just a little bit irresponsible.

Ok, but please allow me to correct a little detail.

The main comment being discussed here is regarding the content vs. traffic issue. She made that comment while sitting in the audience of the newbie seminar, not while she was on the solo girl panel.

The comment mentioned from the solo girl panel was regarding how many hits her web site gets.

Not that it really matters. I am just a detail oriented person and felt like pointing that out.

Edit: I think you changed your original post to include Newbie 101 while I was typing this. Either that, or I am not as detail oriented as I thought. LOL!

[KevinG]

Originally Posted by Hammer

Suggesting that the average newbie needs to shoot his/her own exclusive content only applies if that newbie cares to be his own producer (most do not), or, as in her case, that newbie is going to be his/her own content (most do not).

Not always.

There are lots of professional producers and models / performers for hire that one can contract with to have exclusive content produced.

I do it all the time.

[Hammer]

Originally Posted by KevinG

Not always.

There are lots of professional producers and models / performers for hire that one can contract with to have exclusive content produced.

I do it all the time.

That still doesn't mean that newbies with $100,000 to start a pay site with should jump right in and start buying up $60,000 worth of content before they even know that they'll be able to market the site they put it in.

I for one seriously doubt that Playboy would have hired Joanna to direct if she wasn't qualified so somehow it seems to me that Mike South's comment was made out of jealousy.

[KevinG]

Originally Posted by Hammer

I for one seriously doubt that Playboy would have hired Joanna to direct if she wasn't qualified so somehow it seems to me that Mike South's comment was made out of jealousy.

Ya think? LOL!

[TheEnforcer]

Ahhh.. the old chicken vs the egg dilemma. Traffic or content.

A couple things...

1- IMHO- traffic is and always will be king. If a webmaster has traffic they can ALWAYS make money with it somehow. Even the shittiest traffic has value to somone you can dump it to and make money.... Having that stream of money/traffic is important and learning how to get the traffic stream is paramount these days.

Sponsor plug- And if you have good traffic you can send it places like http://www.2.livejasmin.com/advertise/ and get paid well for it.

2-Exclusive custom content is always a good thing to have but I need plenty of people to see it to lewverage it and make it pay off in a big way long term.

3- If anyone was mad at Gonzo and Hammer for pointing this out at the seminar well, let me just say, they shouldn't have been. Those panels often have people with competing views on them and at times they will and should be challenged on their views on an issue.

4- Gonzo is gonna be on a panel again in Florida. Can't remember what the issue is off hand but I am sure oif you disagree with his advice on the topic he would welcome people to challenge him on it.

5- No idea who's the better director between the Mike and Joanna and am only familiar with them by name and not what their work is like. I haven't rented an adult video in years now. That said, I am sure both have their fans that love their work.

[KevinG]

Originally Posted by TheEnforcer

4- Gonzo is gonna be on a panel again in Florida. Can't remember what the issue is off hand but I am sure if you disagree with his advice on the topic he would welcome people to challenge him on it.

There goes my plan to just hang out at the pool with Hammer, Kelly (from Rackco) and Laura, drinking and smoking cigars.

Now I have to go to at least one of the seminars.

Fucking Gonzo! ;-)

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by TheEnforcer

4- Gonzo is gonna be on a panel again in Florida. Can't remember what the issue is off hand but I am sure oif you disagree with his advice on the topic he would welcome people to challenge him on it.

AVN lost their mind I guess. First they have me profiled in the magazine this month...[not on the cover like Joanna though!] and now its a panel in Miami.

Saturday, August 4, 1:00pm – 2:30pm
Think Tank: Community Sites: Community sites and user-submitted content present both challenges and opportunities to adult entertainment entrepreneurs. What's going to be the next big thing in the realm, and — more importantly - how will these sites make money?


If no one else shows maybe me and Womack can teabag each other.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by Hammer

That still doesn't mean that newbies with $100,000 to start a pay site with should jump right in and start buying up $60,000 worth of content before they even know that they'll be able to market the site they put it in.

I for one seriously doubt that Playboy would have hired Joanna to direct if she wasn't qualified so somehow it seems to me that Mike South's comment was made out of jealousy.

Playboy isnt known fr its past vdeo or online prowess. Lets hope this is the start of something good. I ant to see my stock grow!

[Hammer]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Playboy isnt known fr its past vdeo or online prowess. Lets hope this is the start of something good. I ant to see my stock grow!

Any Playboy video I've seen always seemed to be well directed.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by Hammer

Any Playboy video I've seen always seemed to be well directed.

I thnk Ill go buy a Mike South DVD.