Why I Won't Support Max Hardcore (I Hate Liberty)

[softball]

Originally Posted by Toby

from a post by Jim Manley on another board last July.

I still have not seen this in any charge. I will give Mr. Manley the benefit of the doubt, but am not yet convinced of the veracity of the statement. There seems to be an abundance of smoke, a plethora of mirrors and a paucity of facts surrounding this case.
Call me cynical but the hat was out pretty quickly on this one considering the rather large profits this company claimed to be making back in the day. I have never been against helping out if I believe in a cause, but in this case I still have my doubts.
Edit: BTW, neither of my feet was in my mouth on this one, and I still think an apology is in order. You may not agree with my opinion, but it is well thought out and I was not shooting from the hip, Toby.

[Toby]

My point is that you're stuck on the private parties allegation when they have nothing to do with the case.

For the prostitution charge to apply to the racketeering it has to be part of an illegal enterprise. In other words the alleged illegal enterprise (manufacture and sale of obscene material) has to derive income from the alleged prostitution as part of the enterprise. Beyond entertaining clients I don't see much income relative the the web sites being derived from private parties, so that leaves models hired to perform on film.

Is it starting to make sense?

[softball]

Originally Posted by Toby

My point is that you're stuck on the private parties allegation when they have nothing to do with the case.

For the prostitution charge to apply to the racketeering it has to be part of an illegal enterprise. In other words the alleged illegal enterprise (manufacture and sale of obscene material) has to derive income from the alleged prostitution as part of the enterprise. Beyond entertaining clients I don't see much income relative the the web sites being derived from private parties, so that leaves models hired to perform on film.

Is it starting to make sense?

It is worth considering, but no it is not starting to make sense.

[jimatcohf]

Mr Rhetorical, first it saddens me to see a member of our industry attack someone or a company when truly you do not understand or even have correct knowledge of a particular situation. I am Jim Manley, I was arrested on 2 counts of Racketeering if you do not understand that charge you will need to understand it is an extremely complex and honestly confusing law, First you must have what are called predicates, the 2 predicates that created the 2 counts were 1) obscenity and 2) prostitution. I was charged with count 1 due to a local judge ruling that the website I was the general manager for was obscene cumonherface.com Count 2 was due to the fact that the company paid models male and female to act in our films were considered prostitutes and therefore I became a pimp or john since yes I was involved in some of the scenes as well. So many lies, mis truths and such were printed in the mainstream media that I dont know where to begin, however I will make some points very clear.

1) the Guns and Drugs found during the search warrants were all LEGAL and registered with the state and the drugs were perscription meds that legal perscriptions were provided for.

2) We NEVER used a casting couch, private party, audition for Any model of cohf or any other site we produced.

Why did we start the defense fund, well simply I was stupid, I did not have a rainy day account or any means to provide a strong legal defense for myself. I was not an owner nor did I "profit" from the company I was simply an independant contractor that performed tasks. I was not making tens of thousands in fact my payroll was considerbly less than most tend to believe.
So yes was I asking the industry for help, you bet I was simply for 2 reasons, first what we are charged with WILL impact the US webmaster if we are found guilty 2nd We donated to several legal causes thru the years and we hoped the same generosity would be repayed back to our cause, but dont worry Rhetorical it wasnt repayed other than Wegcash and a few other webmasters we received very little in donations so you can rest easy.

Why does Larry walters not respond to you well lets think about this for a minute based on your attitude about this I wouldnt give you the time of day either and second why dont you ask your attorney if he would comment on matters before a trial, if he says he would Id be trying to find a new attorney.

You claim I used smoke and mirrors etc in alot of my statements, of course I cant come out and comment on many factors of the case I would be an idiot to do so, even this is risky but I am not going to just let you trash and spread fiction about our case or my Life. I am not telling the entire story simply because it needs to come out in court, if I told you our entire strategy how smart would that be. Why dont you post your true stats, how much money you make, your social security number, and your home address, as well as everyother piece of information about your company and how you do business oh yes id like all the rest of your personal information as well, now remember no smoke and mirrors.

Guys, this case will either support our rights to make adult material or shake the very foundation of what we do in this business. Make no bones about it, we lose and this will be the case the govt has wanted and needed for years to go after the adult industry in whole and will not stop till there is no more porn in the US. The political ramifications of this trial will mean pepole are elected or defeated, what kinds of materials adults can watch in the privacy of their home and if the us webmasters and producers will be able to continue to work in this industry without fear of prosecution.

I want to Thank Gonzo for his continued support of our website and by flying the banner for our defense fund, it might not be gaining any donations but at least it keeps fresh the memory of our case.

Thank you Gonzo

Thank you Toby, Hammer, and the others that believe in our cause and assist us fighting the good fight.

Jim Manley

[gonzo]

Jim

I have only spent a few days with you but I beleive I am a good judge of character and I know when someone is just trying to make a living.
If you had a gold tooth and a New York brim I might hae been swayed otherwise.

There are a lot of rumors and conspiracy therories and questions of what happened and what didnt happen.

Im prety sure that it will come out in the courts soon.

If you think that what they were doing was stupid - pissing in the face of the local authorities - or whatever.... just remember if you are shooting content... this could have been you.

And I sit in the very city Max was filed against .... and I know there have been shoots going on all weekend.

[tony404]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Jim

I have only spent a few days with you but I beleive I am a good judge of character and I know when someone is just trying to make a living.
If you had a gold tooth and a New York brim I might hae been swayed otherwise.

There are a lot of rumors and conspiracy therories and questions of what happened and what didnt happen.

Im prety sure that it will come out in the courts soon.

If you think that what they were doing was stupid - pissing in the face of the local authorities - or whatever.... just remember if you are shooting content... this could have been you.

And I sit in the very city Max was filed against .... and I know there have been shoots going on all weekend.

Sorry very different max is feds, cumon her face wasnt porn it was pissing off the locals.I doubt they are bad guys, it's this internet attitude I can do whatever I want where ever I want.They chose a very uptight city to run their business, should we all pay for that? Score and bang bus run out of miami ,are covered by the news and nothing happens to them. Cumonherface chose to be in a place that is very uptight. Now the question is when they chose to run their business in this place that was antiporn did they think about how they were going to fuck it up for so many people? Shooting porn out of LA is very gray but you can be fucking aware and say lets look is there lots of adult stuff where I am or none. If its none there is a good chance your going to get fucked by the locals. Now where I live in Atlanta,they give out free magazines where to find hookers, toy shops and massage palours.Mike south was on the cover of creative loafing as the king of porn and he is fine.Porn isnt a big deal here and thats why I run my business here but to choose to run it in a nonporn friendly place and act then like your fighting for all our rights is funny at best.

[softball]

Originally Posted by jimatcohf

Mr Rhetorical, first it saddens me to see a member of our industry attack someone or a company when truly you do not understand or even have correct knowledge of a particular situation. I am Jim Manley, I was arrested on 2 counts of Racketeering if you do not understand that charge you will need to understand it is an extremely complex and honestly confusing law, First you must have what are called predicates, the 2 predicates that created the 2 counts were 1) obscenity and 2) prostitution. I was charged with count 1 due to a local judge ruling that the website I was the general manager for was obscene cumonherface.com Count 2 was due to the fact that the company paid models male and female to act in our films were considered prostitutes and therefore I became a pimp or john since yes I was involved in some of the scenes as well. So many lies, mis truths and such were printed in the mainstream media that I dont know where to begin, however I will make some points very clear.

1) the Guns and Drugs found during the search warrants were all LEGAL and registered with the state and the drugs were perscription meds that legal perscriptions were provided for.

2) We NEVER used a casting couch, private party, audition for Any model of cohf or any other site we produced.

Why did we start the defense fund, well simply I was stupid, I did not have a rainy day account or any means to provide a strong legal defense for myself. I was not an owner nor did I "profit" from the company I was simply an independant contractor that performed tasks. I was not making tens of thousands in fact my payroll was considerbly less than most tend to believe.
So yes was I asking the industry for help, you bet I was simply for 2 reasons, first what we are charged with WILL impact the US webmaster if we are found guilty 2nd We donated to several legal causes thru the years and we hoped the same generosity would be repayed back to our cause, but dont worry Rhetorical it wasnt repayed other than Wegcash and a few other webmasters we received very little in donations so you can rest easy.

Why does Larry walters not respond to you well lets think about this for a minute based on your attitude about this I wouldnt give you the time of day either and second why dont you ask your attorney if he would comment on matters before a trial, if he says he would Id be trying to find a new attorney.

You claim I used smoke and mirrors etc in alot of my statements, of course I cant come out and comment on many factors of the case I would be an idiot to do so, even this is risky but I am not going to just let you trash and spread fiction about our case or my Life. I am not telling the entire story simply because it needs to come out in court, if I told you our entire strategy how smart would that be. Why dont you post your true stats, how much money you make, your social security number, and your home address, as well as everyother piece of information about your company and how you do business oh yes id like all the rest of your personal information as well, now remember no smoke and mirrors.

Guys, this case will either support our rights to make adult material or shake the very foundation of what we do in this business. Make no bones about it, we lose and this will be the case the govt has wanted and needed for years to go after the adult industry in whole and will not stop till there is no more porn in the US. The political ramifications of this trial will mean pepole are elected or defeated, what kinds of materials adults can watch in the privacy of their home and if the us webmasters and producers will be able to continue to work in this industry without fear of prosecution.

I want to Thank Gonzo for his continued support of our website and by flying the banner for our defense fund, it might not be gaining any donations but at least it keeps fresh the memory of our case.

Thank you Gonzo

Thank you Toby, Hammer, and the others that believe in our cause and assist us fighting the good fight.

Jim Manley

[/quote]Mr Rhetorical, first it saddens me to see a member of our industry attack someone or a company when truly you do not understand or even have correct knowledge of a particular situation[/quote]

Mr.Manly, first it saddens me to see a member of our industry attack another for asking pertinent questions when they do not either read or understand the questions or issues raised.

I am always willing to support anyone who has been wrongly accused and especially if that charge effects our industry.

The fact of the matter is,however, that I have been asking questions from the very beginning and getting nothing but evasive answers.
What I would like to see is a link or a concise exlanation of a charge of prostitution that directly relates to filming. Toby gave and explanation that does not clear it up for me.
Your particular case was never mentioned ever by me. Larry Walters seemed reticent to give an explanation. So maybe you could. I have no axe to grind with you nor cohf. I just would like to see some clarification that the charge relates to filming.