Feminist looks to put Joe Francis out of Biz

[Hell Puppy]

Would suit me fine if 21 were the universal age of adulthood for everyhing.

Forget naked pictures and dancing at titty bars. Let's talk voting, military service, drinking, the whole 9 yards. Make things like driving probationary.

I know I was lucky to make it to 21 due to some of the stupid shit I did at earlier ages.

[Hell Puppy]

Now with all that said, regarding the topic at hand.... I'd say I've had an equal amount of pain from models over 21 as those under 21. And we've shot more over 21's than we have under's.

We always do 100% disclosure before we take the first pic. It can almost seem like we're trying to talk them out of it. We intentionally try to make them think about things like what happens when your family and friends find the pics? We also point out the internet is forever, years down the road you may be married with a kid and someone finds it. Or you graduate school and an employer finds the pics from years earlier.

We've been around and shooting long enough that all of those scenarios have come to be.

The unfortunate reality is regardless of age, the models aren't seeing past that quick buck for a few hours work. They'll listen, they'll say they understand, but they'll take the chance. And they often come back whining when it happens.

[TheEnforcer]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

Now with all that said, regarding the topic at hand.... I'd say I've had an equal amount of pain from models over 21 as those under 21. And we've shot more over 21's than we have under's.

We always do 100% disclosure before we take the first pic. It can almost seem like we're trying to talk them out of it. We intentionally try to make them think about things like what happens when your family and friends find the pics? We also point out the internet is forever, years down the road you may be married with a kid and someone finds it. Or you graduate school and an employer finds the pics from years earlier.

We've been around and shooting long enough that all of those scenarios have come to be.

The unfortunate reality is regardless of age, the models aren't seeing past that quick buck for a few hours work. They'll listen, they'll say they understand, but they'll take the chance. And they often come back whining when it happens.

I'm curious. Do you record the entire explanation process as a protection measure? Even though the contract offers good protection I would think having that explanation on tape would be a real nice addition to make your protection that much stronger.

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by TheEnforcer

I'm curious. Do you record the entire explanation process as a protection measure? Even though the contract offers good protection I would think having that explanation on tape would be a real nice addition to make your protection that much stronger.

Not the very first meeting, that's almost always someplace public where the model feels very comfortable, typically Starbucks or similar. Tape would likely creep 'em out and at that point it's not an agreement, it's just a discussion.

If it goes beyond that, next meeting is typically first shoot and prefaced by all of the legal documentation being taken care of. At that point we go over the entire contract and again set expectations and full disclosure before the first shot is snapped.

That conversation is definitely on tape. We always have one video camera running a security tape at all times we're with a model. That way there's a complete record of everything said, done, the conditions of the environment, etc. It can never be said anyone was forced or coerced into anything. It's always 100% professional.

[TheEnforcer]

Thanks for the reply. Nice to see such measure being taken.

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by TheEnforcer

Thanks for the reply. Nice to see such measure being taken.

Unfortunately we're the exception not the rule I suspect.

Any girl who is not a first timer typically requires a bit of "rehab" to regain their trust. There's some real dirt bags working places like OMP, and the girls chase the dollar without applying a lot of common sense.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

Unfortunately we're the exception not the rule I suspect.

Any girl who is not a first timer typically requires a bit of "rehab" to regain their trust. There's some real dirt bags working places like OMP, and the girls chase the dollar without applying a lot of common sense.

Like the Meth Head that hung out on GFY that told the one shed make 4K a week.

Didnt have a car or a camera . . . but he had a phone with GPS.

Wonder how that career is working out in the Coast Guard?

Lets not forget the models themselves that cant show up on time due to not having a car, being out all night drugging and boozing that cant evem be bothered to do a blog entry in 6 months.

This one was "brainwashed" into thinking there was a high and mighty career with clips4sale.

So heres the deal . . . you look like shit when your up boozing and drugging all night before the shoot. A photographer like Earl Miller cant keep you from looking like a scarecrow when you show up for a shoot 6 hours late.

[tony404]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

Would suit me fine if 21 were the universal age of adulthood for everyhing.

Forget naked pictures and dancing at titty bars. Let's talk voting, military service, drinking, the whole 9 yards. Make things like driving probationary.

I know I was lucky to make it to 21 due to some of the stupid shit I did at earlier ages.

I agree 18 is too young still a kid and especially to go to war.

[Nymph]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

Would suit me fine if 21 were the universal age of adulthood for everyhing.

Forget naked pictures and dancing at titty bars. Let's talk voting, military service, drinking, the whole 9 yards. Make things like driving probationary.

I know I was lucky to make it to 21 due to some of the stupid shit I did at earlier ages.

I'm playing Devil's advocate here......

Then wouldn't that make the parents legally responsible for them until the age of 21?

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I'm not saying I disagree with this, I just wish they would pick one age, and stick with it...not have one age legal for this, and a different age legal for something else.

[SykkBoy]

Hmmm, I know a lot of 21 year olds who aren't exactly gearing up for a degree in Rocket Science

[tony404]

Originally Posted by SykkBoy

Hmmm, I know a lot of 21 year olds who aren't exactly gearing up for a degree in Rocket Science

its still older and out of the teens.

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by SykkBoy

Hmmm, I know a lot of 21 year olds who aren't exactly gearing up for a degree in Rocket Science

Some people are beyond help. I have cousins nearing 40 who shouldn't be allowed out of the house.

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by Nymph

I'm playing Devil's advocate here......

Then wouldn't that make the parents legally responsible for them until the age of 21?

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I'm not saying I disagree with this, I just wish they would pick one age, and stick with it...not have one age legal for this, and a different age legal for something else.

I agree. If you're old enough to die for your counry, you oughta be old enough to take a drink.

And parents? Ugh....parents who take ANY responsibility for their kids are rapidly becoming the small minority. More and more we are living in a society that is willing to let others raise our kids so we dont have to sacrifice our lifestyles.

Both parents work so you can afford the big house, nice cars, good vacations, nice clothes, etc. The cost is the kid spends more time with daycare, school, babysitters or worse unattended completely as a teen than with the family.