DirectNic Demands SlicksNetwork.com Hand Over Model IDs

[LadyMischief]

Ok, I think I do need to make a statement about TGP, since I know the vast majority of people here have limited experience with the medium, and probably know even less about running one/maintaining trades.


Anyone who's ever run a tgp knows that it's a full time job. If you run a NETWORK of them, even moreso. Some of these tgps have HUNDREDS of trades, it's the way that they ensure traffic growth to their own sites. Each trade has to be hand-reviewed before it's put in, and TGP owners have to continually go BACK to these trades to make sure what's put there is NOT illegal or offensive (such as CP). Oftentimes only going to a site once you will NOT neccessarily see anything that would be offensive, and MANY times these assholes who run the tgps/networks that DO offer CP do NOT put those things into place until AFTER they establish trades with people. So let me give a scenario that might make people realize that Slick as much as his diligence would have helped, also fell victim in a way to something that happens to tgp people on a consitant basis.

Let's lay out the scenario. I'm a tgp owner looking for trades or adding trades to my site.. Someone sends me an email or contacts me looking for a trade (or perhaps even enters it into an automatic form that some scripts have for trades). I review the site and everything looks good, so I add him into my trade system (this is where the skims go, that percentage can be changed, but only within a certain median if it's going to maintain site growth). He putters in my trades for a while, I don't go back to check every day, I have 500 trades, I can't review them all daily. I have my hands full going through the 10,000+ galleries sitting in queue from chameleon submitter people and other submits. So the trade I added starts putting up CP, and suddenly my skims/trades are CP sites, even though they weren't when I added them. I wouldn't know this unless a) I went to my trades every day, b) someone reported it to me or c) one of my trades reported the problem or posted somewhere and they let me know. It's not like it's something that's in their face every second.

Not to mention the fact that most tgp scripts run some sort of thumb rotator, so two different people going to a page will NOT neccessarily see the same thumbs, and this can make it even MORE difficult to detect potential difficulties within the trades. Slick can be responsible for what is on his own network, and he can do his BEST to stay on top of his trades, but in reality, he may not ever have known that his trades had CP or "virtual" CP on them. It would have been very likely in fact that he never had a clue.

Just throwing this out there because people are very quick to hold Slick to the fire for his "affiliations" without actually realizing everything that's involved in that process. Due diligence would have helped him a lot, but in all honesty I can see very well how he wouldn't have gone and reviewed every trade on every site on his network on a consistant enough basis to weed out problem trades. I can almost guarantee there are a dozen other tgps right now trading traffic with the sites Slick is getting nailed for trading with, and they don't even realize what's on those sites.

(Remember the trades I'm talking about are the "redirects", that's the TGP skim, it's a percentage of traffic that tgp owners trade around to promote the growth of their systems... If a script sends 2 hits to so and so, their script will send him hits back, and it's this kind of traffic trades that grow tgps).

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by LadyMischief

Slick can be responsible for what is on his own network, and he can do his BEST to stay on top of his trades, but in reality, he may not ever have known that his trades had CP or "virtual" CP on them. It would have been very likely in fact that he never had a clue.

All well said LM and I would agree with most of what you said.

However, I saw the thumbs that were running on one of slicks sites, I never went through to the galleries.

There was no excuse for the thumbs I saw. They were clearly targetting one type of customer and one type only.

Putting aside DN's legal right versus Slick's legal right etc for a second. My personal viewpoint is that anyone targetting that particular market is as bad as the customers in that particular market and the producers of that particular market and any so called "legal" sites or illegal sites that cater to that market. They should all die a very slow painful death and I personally don't give a fuck what anyone does to them legal or illegal. I do not care how we get rid of them, I just want them gone.

[LadyMischief]

Originally Posted by sarettah

All well said LM and I would agree with most of what you said.

However, I saw the thumbs that were running on one of slicks sites, I never went through to the galleries.

There was no excuse for the thumbs I saw. They were clearly targetting one type of customer and one type only.

Putting aside DN's legal right versus Slick's legal right etc for a second. My personal viewpoint is that anyone targetting that particular market is as bad as the customers in that particular market and the producers of that particular market and any so called "legal" sites or illegal sites that cater to that market. They should all die a very slow painful death and I personally don't give a fuck what anyone does to them legal or illegal. I do not care how we get rid of them, I just want them gone.

Slick claims on GFY that most of his thumbs were cut by the autocropper and that if you click through to the galleries the content should match exactly. The question is then is it the thumbs or the content that's questionable, and all the sites he was promoting from what I saw were from reputable (so to speak) sponsors. It leaves a fine tangled web, doesn't it?

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by LadyMischief

Slick claims on GFY that most of his thumbs were cut by the autocropper

Yeah, but I am a programmer. I don't allow people to blame it on the computer.

If you are a webmaster, you are responsible for what is on your site, plain and simple. Doesn't matter if you are running scripts or doing it by hand as far as I'm concerned. Anyone who puts their business completely in the hands of a computer will be out of business one way or the other in due time.

[Peaches]

TBH, from what I can gather STRICTLY on his GFY comments, Slick may have been in the adult industry for years, but he wasn't running it like it was a business. IMO, that's what got him into this mess and more than likely exacerbated it. When your first post is to come on GFY asking who the company is (when they clearly tell you every time you register or renew a domain) and then come back AGAIN to GFY asking for an attorney, admit you THOUGHT all the trades were OK, etc. then you're a sitting target.

[LadyMischief]

Originally Posted by Peaches

TBH, from what I can gather STRICTLY on his GFY comments, Slick may have been in the adult industry for years, but he wasn't running it like it was a business. IMO, that's what got him into this mess and more than likely exacerbated it. When your first post is to come on GFY asking who the company is (when they clearly tell you every time you register or renew a domain) and then come back AGAIN to GFY asking for an attorney, admit you THOUGHT all the trades were OK, etc. then you're a sitting target.

I agree, most people who are in the business on this level are not "businesspeople". TGP and those types of aspects of the business can be easier for entry-level folks, but I assure you that the guys that run the big networks are making _MUCH_ more than beer money, and more and more ARE starting to run things like a business, simply because circumstances force them to. I think Slick was kind of caught in the middle of a bigger fight, and just happened to be the unfortunate fellow the hammer fell on first. I truly don't believe he was doing anything other than running his business and making money for his family (and doing very well at it too, the Slick network is well known in the TGP world). He made the same mistakes 1000's of other people are continuing to make, and only education will change that. If nothing else comes out of this thing, it will be a shakeup for people to re-assess how they run their business and to accept that they have taken on liability in how they do things, and have contingencies in place to deal with it.

However all that being said, crucifying the guy without knowing the FULL story isn't exactly fair, either. More than anything I feel his problem was a lack of knowledge, as opposed to an intent of ill.

[softball]

The issue here is not whether slick was right or wrong. I have never seen the material in question.
The issue is whether the registrar can be the judge and jury and hang the accused. I see no evidence of discussions or questioning of slick by DN.
There are courts and police and the FBI to deal with this before cutting off someone's business.
I disagree with Sarettah when he says get rid of all offenders in a legal or illegal manner. That is just lynch mob tactics. Again, we have courts for that.
This is sooooo like the communist witch hunts of the fifties it is scarey.
Personally, I cannot see how any one in this business could possibly defend DN for its actions in this case. We should collectively be raging against this shit.

[LadyMischief]

Originally Posted by sarettah

Yeah, but I am a programmer. I don't allow people to blame it on the computer.

If you are a webmaster, you are responsible for what is on your site, plain and simple. Doesn't matter if you are running scripts or doing it by hand as far as I'm concerned. Anyone who puts their business completely in the hands of a computer will be out of business one way or the other in due time.

*I* agree with you, however, people will use the tools that are available to them without truly realizing the consequences. Have you ever hand-cropped thousands of thumbs? Just asking.

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by LadyMischief

* Have you ever hand-cropped thousands of thumbs? Just asking.

Yep, which is the reason I don't do much site building anymore. Done right, it can be intensely boring, tedious work and you spend long hours doing it even with tools helping. I used to thumb and crop the images, catalog the sets and images by niche Multi niche actually, (redhead:lesbian:strapon:etc), type (softcore, hardcore), whether they were sponsor provided or purchased, 2257 info, etc, on and on.

And this was to be able to put trustworthy automation in place.

But, if you choose to run tgp or even just do a shit load of galleries and free sites, to do it right is a big job and when you decide you are going to do it is when you should have agreed with yourself to do the work.

There is nothing wrong with attemting to automate and make your job easier, however, it does not remove responsibility.

Old saying from my Navy days: You can delegate authority, you cannt delegate responsibility.

[LadyMischief]

Originally Posted by sarettah

Yep, which is the reason I don't do much site building anymore. Done right, it can be intensely boring, tedious work and you spend long hours doing it even with tools helping. I used to thumb and crop the images, catalog the sets and images by niche Multi niche actually, (redhead:lesbian:strapon:etc), type (softcore, hardcore), whether they were sponsor provided or purchased, 2257 info, etc, on and on.

And this was to be able to put trustworthy automation in place.

But, if you choose to run tgp or even just do a shit load of galleries and free sites, to do it right is a big job and when you decide you are going to do it is when you should have agreed with yourself to do the work.

There is nothing wrong with attemting to automate and make your job easier, however, it does not remove responsibility.

Old saying from my Navy days: You can delegate authority, you cannt delegate responsibility.

I agree, and that is how *I* run MY ship, however I think having had the experience, you can appreciate why someone would allow automation to remove 95% of the tedious labor from the process.. Some of these networks are massive and just cropping thumbs would be a 5 day a week job for someone. It's not an excuse, but I see WHY people leave these things up to automation.

[Hammer]

Originally Posted by sarettah

There was no excuse for the thumbs I saw. They were clearly targetting one type of customer and one type only.

Exactly right, he was targeting pedophiles. Either that or he's a real idiot and was targeting teenage boys without credit cards.

[LadyMischief]

Originally Posted by Hammer

Exactly right, he was targeting pedophiles. Either that or he's a real idiot and was targeting teenage boys without credit cards.

This is where the line between societal mores and basic human evolution clash. 100 years ago, it was perfectly acceptable and even normal for a 14 year old girl to be married and starting a family. Throughout recorded history until OUR CENTURY, girls 12 years old were already getting married and starting families, and the (often much older) men they married didn't have people running around pointing and calling them pedophiles. It was the norm. In the human psyche, no matter what society tells us, males will respond to females who present them with "fresh, vital, full of life and fertile". It's simple instinct. In today's society it's not acceptable for men to be turned on by this because of the magical number "18" that has been imposed in the name of societal mores. I AGREE with that number being in place, I don't feel young girls in our society are ready to deal with more than they have already. HOWEVER, implying that men are pedophiles because they respond to/are attracted by youthful females, you are saying that it's human nature to be a pedophile. This is NOT the case. The definition of pedophile in the dictionary is:

pe·do·phile /ˈpidəˌfaɪl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[pee-duh-fahyl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun Psychiatry.
an adult who is sexually attracted to young children.
Also, pedophiliac.

PRE-PUBESCENT children are the scope of interest of TRUE pedophiles, once they sproud their little boobies and start gaining some shape, the TRUE pedophiles are NO LONGER INTERESTED. The real issue here isn't subscribing to pedophiles so much as it's catering to human nature. Sure, CP gets thrown into the mix and there ARE sickos who seek that stuff, but if we're goign to start hurling these kind of words, let's be REALISTIC about the reasons why people keep doing it. IT WORKS. Human nature/instinct has NOT evolved as quickly as our society has and no matter if society says it's wrong, it is still a part of the equation. I am in no way saying that marketing in this way is good, or that I agree with it.. However, it DOES work, and will CONTINUE to work, right or wrong, not because of a world full of PERVERTS, but because it's a world full of MEN who are just as subject to their own nature as they are the neccessity to breathe.

Not a single man here could tell me he hasn't looked, BY INSTINCT at an attractive underage girl. What he did with the thought process after that point is really all his own nature, but the fact that his brain DID make him take note even though HE CONSCIOUSLY KNOWS IT'S WRONG UNDER SOCIETY'S law, his instincts are still playing that role of procreator and looking for the best, freshest, healthiest candidates to carry his DNA into the next generation.

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by LadyMischief

Not a single man here could tell me he hasn't looked, BY INSTINCT at an attractive underage girl. What he did with the thought process after that point is really all his own nature, but the fact that his brain DID make him take note even though HE CONSCIOUSLY KNOWS IT'S WRONG UNDER SOCIETY'S law, his instincts are still playing that role of procreator and looking for the best, freshest, healthiest candidates to carry his DNA into the next generation.

The thumbs I saw appeared to be prepubescent, I would have put them in the 8 year old area. And I have 2 daughters so I do know the difference between prepubescent and teen.

These did not bring up the instinct of I want to reproduce with that, it brought up the image of anyone who destroys that innocence should be shot and damn, that girl is scared shitless of what that asshole is about to do.

[LadyMischief]

Originally Posted by sarettah

The thumbs I saw appeared to be prepubescent, I would have put them in the 8 year old area. And I have 2 daughters so I do know the difference between prepubescent and teen.

These did not bring up the instinct of I want to reproduce with that, it brought up the image of anyone who destroys that innocence should be shot and damn, that girl is scared shitless of what that asshole is about to do.

That shit scares me too, I have two little girls. THe stuff I personally saw on slick's sites was never that questionable, what was on his trades was what brought me up short.

My comments on instinct were simply to bring a little perspective to the other argument, about taking older girls and making them look younger. Actual CP itself is sickening, and if it was on Slick's sites he deserves what he gets. Every gallery I saw when I looked in web-archives were from well-known/highly promoted sponsors that are "reputable", however. Please show me the questionable thumbs because I'd be curious to see what sponsors they are promoting.

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by LadyMischief

Please show me the questionable thumbs because I'd be curious to see what sponsors they are promoting.

The only page I looked at was the front of majorpervert. I am not sure how you would get back to what was there at that point.

[spazlabz]

Originally Posted by sarettah

The thumbs I saw appeared to be prepubescent, I would have put them in the 8 year old area. And I have 2 daughters so I do know the difference between prepubescent and teen.

That certainly changes a lot in my opinion. I did not see the thumbs in question because the sites were taken down before I found out about the discussion.

however, as distatseful as that is, it was not DN's place to shut down these sites. it just wasnt. No matter how indignant anyone could become over what was shown on that site DN had a legal course of action it should have taken and didn't.

It appears to be a knee jerk reaction, understandable as it may be, but they are not as rhetorical says Judge, Jurry & Executioner here and should not have tried to become one

By taking the high moral ground they acted like scummy bible thumpers


spaz

[LadyMischief]

Originally Posted by spazlabz

That certainly changes a lot in my opinion. I did not see the thumbs in question because the sites were taken down before I found out about the discussion.

however, as distatseful as that is, it was not DN's place to shut down these sites. it just wasnt. No matter how indignant anyone could become over what was shown on that site DN had a legal course of action it should have taken and didn't.

It appears to be a knee jerk reaction, understandable as it may be, but they are not as rhetorical says Judge, Jurry & Executioner here and should not have tried to become one

By taking the high moral ground they acted like scummy bible thumpers


spaz

You can see what was on the site to this day on web-archives. I don't have the url handy but I've been through quite a few of the listings.