Diabolic gets an FBI visit - first enforcement of 2257.. who's next?

[Greg B]

Originally Posted by Hammer

Dude, you need to get over the 2257 issue and look at the broader picture. No, of course they aren't going to ask for a toon's ID, but they sure as hell will say that a toon depicting a chick getting fucked in the ass by a monster cock is obscene, toon or not, and the part to be concerned about is if somemone thinks that the female in your toon looks too young.

My point about Red Rose is that the lady was arrested for obscenity (not 2257) over an erotic story that described incest and sex with a minor. No real humans were involved, obviously, but she was arrested none-the-less. My apologies for linking to another board but I can't find the story any place else right now. http://www.ynot.com/modules.php?op=m...ticle&sid=9839

When I say you're being naive, I'm referring to your apparent belief that the latest bill to amend 2257, or any other proposed bill that has been written about lately, has anything to do with stopping CP, when in reality, it's just part of an ongoing witch hunt to eliminate porn from the Internet. And that's all forms of pornography, including obscene toons and anime.

FSC stands for the Free Speech Coalition. http://www.freespeechcoalition.com/ Anyone that is a 'secondary producer' and not also a 'primary producer' that joins the FSC, will be protected from any inspections by an injunction.

p.s. I hope you understand that I'm not saying that I personally think there is anything wrong with erotic toons and stories -- anymore than I believe there is anything wrong with any form of erotica, as long as it's legal -- I'm just pointing out that producing any form of erotica, even if it doesn't depict actual people, is not completely safe.

Nothing is safe if it can't be controlled by the powers that be. The only reasons online porn are being attacked are:

1.) Fucked up webmaster criminals ripping people off.
2.) People making lots of money who otherwise would have been piss broke trying to make a living in the completely disfunctional workaday system already established thus thwarting the control of the ruling classes.
3.) Irresponsible parents, webmasters etc. all not taking into account the ramifications of what they do.
4.) People blaming porn on their crimes or blaming porn for the source of criminal behavior. I don't remember such mass murderers like Josep Stalin or Hitler having a Bangbros pass. It's bullshit but something has to be blamed for our irresponsibilty to straighten out our own problems.

It's about excuses. I got into doing this as a protest. Reason being the industries I was in, animation and comics were run by corporate gangsters that the cops and federal government were too cowardly to prosecute. We had to battle them OURSELVES while the people we elected and paid to do the job sat back and took kickbacks. Got so bad even the federal court judges admonished the bad guys in court after they fucked up a multibillion dollar company and STILL the authorities sat on their asses.

It's about control. The Internet was a wild card that made the wrong people a fuckload of money. The status quo got overturned and now the elite who run this world have to catch up but they can't unless they use laws to harrass and punish those who don't fall in line. They can't have the 'peasant class' dining at fine restaurants or joining the country club.

It's about the controll of the ruling class that got way out of hand when people found out they could use computers to gain major wealth and influence politics and give people alternate viewpoints and facts thus breaking the mind contol stranglehold the major industries had on us.

NY Times and other major newspapers are DYING because we don't need them to get our info anymore. TV News is barely hanging on. If some shit jumps off anywhere in the world we can just get on a chat line and find out for ourselves.

What's obscene to one guy may be funny to another. It's often used vindictively, yet even then when used that way it always backfires.

Witch hunt for porn? Nah, more like a witch hunt for people who rip people off or who won't tow the line.

[Greg B]

The main reason I don't promote other people's affiliate programs is due primarily to not being able to trust them to do their jobs right.

It has to be a toon site of a person I know to promote.

There are too many junkies and degenerate gamblers and drunks who run these companies and their fucking up is inevitable.

I make my own content.

[TheEnforcer]

Originally Posted by Greg B

The main reason I don't promote other people's affiliate programs is due primarily to not being able to trust them to do their jobs right.

It has to be a toon site of a person I know to promote.

There are too many junkies and degenerate gamblers and drunks who run these companies and their fucking up is inevitable.

I make my own content.

You really have a hang up about those things don't you? It seems to color much of your thinking.

[gonzo]

We are all killers and asswholes....

[Greg B]

Originally Posted by TheEnforcer

You really have a hang up about those things don't you? It seems to color much of your thinking.

Dude, please.

I've been in this biz long enough to proclaim before the populace that the majority of affiliate programs don't convert. By the time we get the chance to promote them the affiliate's friends have saturated the market already.

There're enough webmasters I've known through the years I've had to personally send to rehabs. I know the game.

I've learned to make sure to know the minds behind the behinds before promoting. If a guy comes up on the up and up then cool. If he's a fucking moron with one foot in a jail cell then hell no. Even if his employees do dumb shit I'll drop it.

Don't need it.

[TheEnforcer]

Originally Posted by Greg B

Dude, please.

I've been in this biz long enough to proclaim before the populace that the majority of affiliate programs don't convert. By the time we get the chance to promote them the affiliate's friends have saturated the market already.

There're enough webmasters I've known through the years I've had to personally send to rehabs. I know the game.

I've learned to make sure to know the minds behind the behinds before promoting. If a guy comes up on the up and up then cool. If he's a fucking moron with one foot in a jail cell then hell no. Even if his employees do dumb shit I'll drop it.

Don't need it.

Just because you have such a shitty view of this industry that doesn't automatically make it the case. While it certainly has it's problems you appear to can't stand it and look down upon a great many people.

It goes without saying that you have to check into programs, whether it be mainstream or adult, but you seem to just bash the industry and the people in it wholesale. I personally have gotten to know a TON of great people in this business over the years. As a matter fo fact I've met FAR more great people in this biz than I have assholes.

If you don't like the industry and the people in it so much why are you in it?

[pam]

Originally Posted by Greg B

Nothing is safe if it can't be controlled by the powers that be. The only reasons online porn are being attacked are:

1.) Fucked up webmaster criminals ripping people off.

Say what?

You think some dishonest websites caused this? Go back to the Meese Commission report (was that before your time?) and read the dates when the original 18 USC 2257 was born. The Internet was in its infancy at that time.

You've been in the industry long enough to know that affiliate programs don't convert, huh? I think you just suck at web promotion, to be blunt. Many of us have made more money than you'll ever see in your lifetime due to honest affiliate programs.

Not sure who you hang out with, but I'm not aware of any of my webmaster friends who have had to go through rehab. I don't drink, smoke, gamble or do drugs, nor do I sleep around, and gee, I'm in the adult industry. By your statements I should be a coke-snorting slut who installs Spyware to make cash while placing bets in her sleep through some script she stole from an unsuspecting innocent.

[LadyMischief]

Originally Posted by pam

Say what?

You think some dishonest websites caused this? Go back to the Meese Commission report (was that before your time?) and read the dates when the original 18 USC 2257 was born. The Internet was in its infancy at that time.

You've been in the industry long enough to know that affiliate programs don't convert, huh? I think you just suck at web promotion, to be blunt. Many of us have made more money than you'll ever see in your lifetime due to honest affiliate programs.

Not sure who you hang out with, but I'm not aware of any of my webmaster friends who have had to go through rehab. I don't drink, smoke, gamble or do drugs, nor do I sleep around, and gee, I'm in the adult industry. By your statements I should be a coke-snorting slut who installs Spyware to make cash while placing bets in her sleep through some script she stole from an unsuspecting innocent.

Haha I was thinking the same thing. I don't drink or anything like that either, and I work extremely hard for what I get. There are definitely some bad industry "apples", but they are the exception for the most part, not the rule. Any good company that wants to stay in business for any amount of time can't afford to be dishonest... we're seeing this come to a head even more now with the downfall of legendary cheats and thieves.

[Hammer]

There are assholes in every industry, but to make generalizations about any industry based on the minority that are bad is just plain silly.

[Greg B]

Originally Posted by LadyMischief

Haha I was thinking the same thing. I don't drink or anything like that either, and I work extremely hard for what I get. There are definitely some bad industry "apples", but they are the exception for the most part, not the rule. Any good company that wants to stay in business for any amount of time can't afford to be dishonest... we're seeing this come to a head even more now with the downfall of legendary cheats and thieves.

Sure there are bad apples Mischief and sure they're the exception not the rule but they sure leave a bad taste in the public and government's mouths.

[LadyMischief]

Originally Posted by Greg B

Sure there are bad apples Mischief and sure they're the exception not the rule but they sure leave a bad taste in the public and government's mouths.

Unfortunately it's true, the government and public uses those people as a focus. Think for a minute about how suddenly everyone thinks Myspace is horrible based on some bad experiences. Sure there have been quite a few, but if you actually think about how many people USE myspace, and how many incidents of rotten stuff have happened, the numbers just aren't that scary. The media will always focus on what gets the story, and therefore the government will too, because suddenly it's urgent and horrible and everyone doing porn is evil too.

The few bad apples make it a little bit harder for all of us, but life, or business without challenge would get awfully boring quickly

[Greg B]

Originally Posted by pam

Say what?

You think some dishonest websites caused this? Go back to the Meese Commission report (was that before your time?) and read the dates when the original 18 USC 2257 was born. The Internet was in its infancy at that time.

You've been in the industry long enough to know that affiliate programs don't convert, huh? I think you just suck at web promotion, to be blunt. Many of us have made more money than you'll ever see in your lifetime due to honest affiliate programs.

Not sure who you hang out with, but I'm not aware of any of my webmaster friends who have had to go through rehab. I don't drink, smoke, gamble or do drugs, nor do I sleep around, and gee, I'm in the adult industry. By your statements I should be a coke-snorting slut who installs Spyware to make cash while placing bets in her sleep through some script she stole from an unsuspecting innocent.

Meese commission? Kid I'm older than most modern legislation so don't flap your lips at me about 'before your time' shit.

"make more money they you'll ever see in a lifetime..."

Highly unlikely. I'm gonna put that on the bathroom wall at the nearest hooters.

Some affiliate programs rock. Some don't. I don't like most and have known the folks behind them since they started them over a decade ago and then some.

You have no fucking clue as to whom I've dealt with in this business over the past ten years and whom I've helped so shake that shit in the wind with the rest of it.